[INTJ] ENFPS and INTJs

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I've always gotten along very well with NTJs. I don't know what is about them (okay, so I'm too lazy to think and type all that out right now...sorry). It's just an instant hit/click with them. I don't find them mean, cold or whatever other stuff that gets tacked on about them. Can't be true...naw.

NTJs are awesome.

 

[Coriolis]

I've always been curious if, as an INTJ woman, ENFP men hold the same appeal to you as they apparently do for your male counterparts? I find that the whole ENTJ/INFP thing has held true for me in my experience. The attraction can be pretty visceral in both platonic and romantic interactions I've had with that type. I tend to avoid it, though, as the potential for codependency and emotional outsourcing when it comes to that particular pairing is very, very real. It's also prone to sudden unforeseen implosions.

I know few ENFP men and none well, so I cannot say. I do not see why I would not appreciate the same aspects of the dynamic that supposedly appeal to INTJ men, nor suffer from the same troubles in sustaining a relationship.

She likes INTP men and thinks that INTJ women make good partners for INTP men.

My SO is indeed INTP, but I would not generalize my own likes this far. I do think INTP and INTJ are a better combination than some, especially if both are looking for a strong mental connection. Ultimately though any type combination can work out if the people put in the effort and truly care about each other.

 

[violet_crown]

I know few ENFP men and none well, so I cannot say. I do not see why I would not appreciate the same aspects of the dynamic that supposedly appeal to INTJ men, nor suffer from the same troubles in sustaining a relationship.

I commented in a thread that Bads started a while back that my social expectations can complicate female T/male F pairings, or at least can in my experience. Part of what motivated my question is that (from an outside perspective) so much of what seems to be the appeal of the INTJ/ENFP pairing is some element of hyper-idealized masculine/feminine roles. And I wondered if the overall appeal of the pairing held when those roles were reversed, or if it continued to play a role, how it showed up.

 

[Qlip]

As of yet, I have never really been anything than curious about the INTJ Lady. I've had a few nice conversations at (work) parties and such, but practicalities and actual difference in interests have kept me from digging deeper. But the description of the ENFP/INTJ relationship dynamic on forums makes me throw up in my mouth a little. I entirely blame projected gender ideals on my repulsion to the male INTJ/female ENFP as reported.

 

[Dreamer]

I think I like INTJs. An INTJ woman would be my ideal partner, I think.

[MENTION=25763]Enthusiastic_Dreamer[/MENTION], who is your ideal partner?

Specific types? Can't say that I have an ideal type at the moment, though, an INTJ woman would be interesting indeed. I think anyone that has Ni would be interesting enough for me to pick their brain endlessly and never tire of and that's always a plus haha. I know I often tend to be attracted to introverts with depth in a particular subject that I'm also interested in. Say, an introverted woman that studied art history or architecture, or plays an instrument in the symphony, like a violinist or cellist, YES! They are like an enigma that just entices me to want to try and dissect and "study" haha.

I also feel that being with another ENFP has potential. I don't have any ENFP friends or acquaintances at the moment so I can't even really entertain the thought in my head realistically, but I know that I feed off of whomever I'm around and reflect whatever energy they're promoting, double. So it's my guess that if you stick two ENFPs together, you'd get an unstoppable force. I'm talking mature ENFPs too, so once they develop their Te and realize that you actually have to work consistently towards a single objective to put your ideas to work, then yes, the combo seems unstoppable to me.

 

[Coriolis]

I commented in a thread that Bads started a while back that my social expectations can complicate female T/male F pairings, or at least can in my experience. Part of what motivated my question is that (from an outside perspective) so much of what seems to be the appeal of the INTJ/ENFP pairing is some element of hyper-idealized masculine/feminine roles. And I wondered if the overall appeal of the pairing held when those roles were reversed, or if it continued to play a role, how it showed up.

From what I have read and understand, much of what we attribute to male/female differences is really due to T/F differences. Since more men are T and more women F, it looks like the same thing but really isn't. For women Ts and men Fs, the type preferences are not reinforced by the social conditioning that tends to put all T in the male camp and all F in the female, but the cognitive processes are still there. I suspect T women are much more resistant to conditioning anyway. I actually think the pressure is greater on F men, though the ones I know (ENFJ, INFP, ISFJ, a couple INFJ) seem fairly resistant to it as well.

As of yet, I have never really been anything than curious about the INTJ Lady. I've had a few nice conversations at (work) parties and such, but practicalities and actual difference in interests have kept me from digging deeper. But the description of the ENFP/INTJ relationship dynamic on forums makes me throw up in my mouth a little. I entirely blame projected gender ideals on my repulsion to the male INTJ/female ENFP as reported.

I agree with the highlighted, and take objection to generalized descriptions (i.e. not accounts of specific relationships) that assume male INTJ/female ENFP because of the needless convolution of legitimate type differences with almost charicatured gender stereotypes. (Not sure if that is your meaning here.)

The INTJ/ENFP relationship has been discussed to death in various threads here, and if you can strip out the gender stereotypes, does contain elements that I personally would find appealing. These include the stimulation of new and interesting ideas generated by Ne; the inherent personal warmth ENFPs generally have; the ability to be smart, witty, curious, even off-the-wall; the idea of depth of layers to uncover/puzzle out, but never completely; the good-natured spontaneity that can get an INTJ out of a rut and trying new things like little else can. I have experienced some of this with an ENFP female friend. I even get some of it with my INTP - the Ne-driven part.

Just for kicks, to rewrite some of Hapyniss' description with genders reversed:

The complexity of an ENFP man attracts the INTJ firstly by creating a puzzle for her to solve. This actually holds her interest long enough, stimulating her to experience new and interesting ideas. A muse of sorts, if you will. Albeit, he's just being himself fully and draws her in with his genuine unassuming nature. The antithesis of INTJ thought is his warmth. She can feel it and she's enticed. He is one of the only guys she's encountered whose natural curiosity reaches far beyond the average person she's so far met. There's a secret looming in him, though. A deep appreciation for concepts and abstract thought she finds in few other human beings. He's Warm! Witty! Personable! Spontaneous! Everything that she isn't. There is an immediate banter that she finds exhilarating. Of course, this will take her days to weeks to truly analyze to her liking so her rapture continues un-thwarted. As she studies him, dissects his thoughts, delves ever deeper, she is stunned by her delayed confusion. One layer explained only to solicit more questions than answers. It is often that an INTJ leaves a conversation with ENFP asking W.T.F? several times. She's going to get to the bottom of this! Truth to tell, she never will, because there isn't one.

Makes sense this way, too. I could go for some of this, easily.

 

[violet_crown]

As of yet, I have never really been anything than curious about the INTJ Lady. I've had a few nice conversations at (work) parties and such, but practicalities and actual difference in interests have kept me from digging deeper. But the description of the ENFP/INTJ relationship dynamic on forums makes me throw up in my mouth a little. I entirely blame projected gender ideals on my repulsion to the male INTJ/female ENFP as reported.

From what I have read and understand, much of what we attribute to male/female differences is really due to T/F differences. Since more men are T and more women F, it looks like the same thing but really isn't. For women Ts and men Fs, the type preferences are not reinforced by the social conditioning that tends to put all T in the male camp and all F in the female, but the cognitive processes are still there. I suspect T women are much more resistant to conditioning anyway. I actually think the pressure is greater on F men, though the ones I know (ENFJ, INFP, ISFJ, a couple INFJ) seem fairly resistant to it as well.

While I think part of the mythologizing around this pair can be explained by what Coriolis is pointing to, I also think that a lot of it relates to the fact that it is an N-dom pairing. N-doms are as fascinated by the idea as the thing in and of itself, in my experience, and the endless fascination with the fascination is kind of indicative of the relationship as a whole.

That's why I brought up my experience with ENTJ/INFP relationships as a point of contrast. I think that between that pairing being more based on Fi-connection, and a typical J-dom attitude towards most things being "it is what it is", it just results in a very different discussion. The whole hyper-gendered, mythologized aspect just doesn't enter in in the same way, which makes me believe that it's not just some unavoidable default of discussion of any feeler/thinker couple.

I also feel that being with another ENFP has potential. I don't have any ENFP friends or acquaintances at the moment so I can't even really entertain the thought in my head realistically, but I know that I feed off of whomever I'm around and reflect whatever energy they're promoting, double. So it's my guess that if you stick two ENFPs together, you'd get an unstoppable force. I'm talking mature ENFPs too, so once they develop their Te and realize that you actually have to work consistently towards a single objective to put your ideas to work, then yes, the combo seems unstoppable to me.

Typecest is best!

(...until it isn't lol. )

 

[ceecee]

Not yet. It's only been a month that we've been getting to know each other. I will tell him. I've only started to have feelings rather than infatuations. This is the first time I'm truly worried about it.

I suggest you share that info sooner rather than later.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

I believe that is more correct to say that they are just more likely to talk about their out of the box views. Not to mention that NPs will not see argument as out of the box argument if it is structured and well though out, so that it do not have holes in logic and it is ready for implementation. Ni-Te duo can be an excellent fun killer for NPs.

It bothers me that you're trying to tell me how I should feel. What is correct or not for my experience.
...And then I just slid to the left of my display and bam...INTJ. Rest my case.

Ps. I dont want to discuss logic in a relationship. I just want to fuck you. And possibly feel emotionally connected.

 

[Hapyniss]

I suggest you share that info sooner rather than later.

First chance I get...

 

[Hapyniss]

From what I have read and understand, much of what we attribute to male/female differences is really due to T/F differences. Since more men are T and more women F, it looks like the same thing but really isn't. For women Ts and men Fs, the type preferences are not reinforced by the social conditioning that tends to put all T in the male camp and all F in the female, but the cognitive processes are still there. I suspect T women are much more resistant to conditioning anyway. I actually think the pressure is greater on F men, though the ones I know (ENFJ, INFP, ISFJ, a couple INFJ) seem fairly resistant to it as well.


I agree with the highlighted, and take objection to generalized descriptions (i.e. not accounts of specific relationships) that assume male INTJ/female ENFP because of the needless convolution of legitimate type differences with almost charicatured gender stereotypes. (Not sure if that is your meaning here.)

The INTJ/ENFP relationship has been discussed to death in various threads here, and if you can strip out the gender stereotypes, does contain elements that I personally would find appealing. These include the stimulation of new and interesting ideas generated by Ne; the inherent personal warmth ENFPs generally have; the ability to be smart, witty, curious, even off-the-wall; the idea of depth of layers to uncover/puzzle out, but never completely; the good-natured spontaneity that can get an INTJ out of a rut and trying new things like little else can. I have experienced some of this with an ENFP female friend. I even get some of it with my INTP - the Ne-driven part.

Just for kicks, to rewrite some of Hapyniss' description with genders reversed:


Makes sense this way, too. I could go for some of this, easily.

That's AbFab! I'm glad you took the time to make that personal. It's completely translatable. I would add an extra piece that more applies to INTJfemale/ENFPmale...

The ENFP male is perplexed by his inability to charm his INTJ female. She's not easily moved to impress and the gauntlet is thrown. ENFP man says, "Challenge accepted".

To hold an ENFP male in limbo with his own interest is to show him just enough but always keep him wanting more. Of course, us ENFP's have great bullshit-o-meters as well. So a genuine interest in him, but in very small doses at first. - Counter-intuitive for an INTJ as they wish to probe the universe out of someone when first meeting.

 

[Coriolis]

The ENFP male is perplexed by his inability to charm his INTJ female. She's not easily moved to impress and the gauntlet is thrown. ENFP man says, "Challenge accepted".

You know, there was just a bit of this from my INTP as well. They are not the charmers that ENFPs are, but do love a challenge in their own way.

 

[Virtual ghost]

It bothers me that you're trying to tell me how I should feel. What is correct or not for my experience.
...And then I just slid to the left of my display and bam...INTJ. Rest my case.

Ps. I dont want to discuss logic in a relationship. I just want to fuck you. And possibly feel emotionally connected.

If you post in the thread about ENFPs and INTJs the odds are that an INTJ will quote you.


I am not trying to tell you how you should feel I am only saying that people tend not to see behind the Te-Se exterior of an INTJ. Even after so many decades I know to surprise my family since they didn't know "That I have it in me" and that is because I am not emotionally transparent ... and it takes a while to get to know me. My own father teases me with "You have emotions ?" on regular basis.


Fucking and emotional connection are perfectly fine by me.

 

[Hapyniss]

If you post in the thread about ENFPs and INTJs the odds are that an INTJ will quote you.


I am not trying to tell you how you should feel I am only saying that people tend not to see behind the Te-Se exterior of an INTJ. Even after so many decades I know to surprise my family since they didn't know "That I have it in me" and that is because I am not emotionally transparent ... and it takes a while to get to know me. My own father teases me with "You have emotions ?" on regular basis.


Fucking and emotional connection are perfectly fine by me.

I have often wondered about different types of INTJ's and their personal experiences with emotions. It's interesting that family hasn't been able to catch the little subtleties of an INTJ emoting. I catch it all the time. I'm curious though...do you think that you're emotional self and intellectual self are so closely intertwined that it becomes difficult to actually separate them? I have found with my other INTJ's that their values are so grossly aligned with their thoughts and rationals that they are essentially emoting as they speak about what they think. They are one in the same. Intense, but just not expressed while in the throws of feeling. Maybe there's no butterflies per se, but how necessary is that experience? What is your personal experience with emotions, emoting, thoughts, values, and expressions?

BTW: Taking the time to build an emotional connection with another human being before sticking external parts into orifices is what makes fucking someone amazeballs.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I have often wondered about different types of INTJ's and their personal experiences with emotions. It's interesting that family hasn't been able to catch the little subtleties of an INTJ emoting. I catch it all the time. I'm curious though...do you think that you're emotional self and intellectual self are so closely intertwined that it becomes difficult to actually separate them? I have found with my other INTJ's that their values are so grossly aligned with their thoughts and rationals that they are essentially emoting as they speak about what they think. They are one in the same. Intense, but just not expressed while in the throws of feeling. Maybe there's no butterflies per se, but how necessary is that experience? What is your personal experience with emotions, emoting, thoughts, values, and expressions?

BTW: Taking the time to build an emotional connection with another human being before sticking external parts into orifices is what makes fucking someone amazeballs.

Since you are new I will be completely open.


It is not possible to separate them because of they ARE basically one thing. I am my knowledge and use it to make this world a better place, the only thing that is real emotion here is actually my drive to actually do that. Beneath this there is still a personality but it is often not visible to others even I try to show it. This generally applys to all women and not just ENFPs. My problem is that I am INTJ towards both MBTI and Ennegram since my enneagram tritype stands for "The technical expert" that is basically the most robotic combination in ennegram.

5-1-3: exacting, methodical, organized and fairly self-righteous, these Fives have a compulsive need for logic and order in their environment. They are hard-working and more practical and pragmatic than other Fives, focusing on the efficiency and improvement of the systems that interest them. They also enjoy and expect receiving the deserved recognition for their efforts, considering their time and involvement very precious. This tritype is one of the most cool-headed, rigid and self-controlled.
typical subtypes: self-preserving, social, 5w6
similar tritypes: 5-3-1, 3-5-1, 1-5-3
flavours: exigent, methodical, formal and efficient
Employing mechanisms based on a feeling of competence. (1-3-5)
5-1-3: Most scientific and remote Five. Most technical. Uncomfortable with intense feelings.

five with a one fix: focused, serious tone. critical outlook. theme of
sacrifice, dissolves wholly into their projects.
special interest in knowledge, skill, and discoveries
to improve health, society, the future, and the like.
concerned for others in the abstract; difficult to get
close to.

We can say we are all individuals but this is me down to last letter. I am person that already in kindergarten was able to draw a correct picture of solar system, I have learned to play chess before I learned how to read. All of my proffesional interests were closely related to science, technology and management issues. I am person with which you can talk about nature of the unviverse, multimedia and broadcasting, formation of mountans, environment science and climate change etc. However I do not value knowledge purely for the sake of knowledge instead I use it to make concrete changes around me and I demand debates in order to prove that I am right. I want the best solution possible and do not really care about dinamics of power on personal level.


The fact is that my entire life as a whole was defined with emotional emptiness and horror. I was born in communist dictatorship and I grew up right next to the largest war zone in Europe after WW2. Already at the elemtary school age I witnessed how planes destroyed presidential office in my country. For me that had a huge philosophical consequence since this was a direct evidence of how much authority is just a social convention that has no ground in reality and I therefore do not get my heart involved in social norms or daily politics as normal people. Especially since I have studied geology enviromental science enough to know that the concept of modern society probably is not sustainable at physical and chemical level, what makes it hard for me to empathize with my environmet. I have even made a classification of scenarios of how human history will end.

My family was never trully involved in my life. My parents thought that everybody has a right to be their own person so they have left me be. What in the end turned out that emotional sense I have rised myself the best way I could. Especially since I do not have any siblings or even cousins, I also never even had a pet. Since the computers became relevant at that time my parents gave me a computer that rised me as one of its own. (so to speak). However with computer the computer games came into house so I have embraced that as well. Therefore already at the elementary schools age I was into games that were scary or too complex even to grown ups. One one hand I have spent large part of my childhood in hell slashing and blowing up monsters while one the other hand I was creating military structures and infrastructure, making budgets and led the offensives into neighbouring territories. Over the years I actually became so good it this that no body around me wanted to play with me.

Through out my life I had a few friendships but all of them lacked very deep and intimate component. Also it is striking that all of my connections were with guys, women always decided to stay away from me. For example back in school they were inviting everyone from the class to birthday party except me or they have openly ignored my "hi". The truth is that I have never managed to get along with women since I am somehow "scary". However my life made me isolated in some other ways as well. One year it even happened that I was the only student in the class, just me and teachers the whole year long. Also it happned that they have throw me out of university because they let me in because of administrative mistake, so I had to start from scratch.

I mean there is so much to tell but for now I will skip the details. The fact is that I am impressonation of certain INTJ stereotypes and I am basically only one lab accident from becoming a super vilian from movies. We can joke about it but the fact is that all off the elements are there. What is funny is that people watch such movies and see those intimidating traits in me since they are pretty visable if the converation has any depth. If I judge by my expriences ENFPs have discomfort from even thinking about having this kind of lifestory and they as well women in general seem to think that they are not up to the challange of dating me. (or they do not want that at all) I like ENFP girls but they tend to run away from me. My armor scares them since it makes me immune to basically everything, what is a a consequences of the fact that I had to become immune to everthing due to life circumstances. However none the less it would be soooo nice to have ENFP gf since there was never love in my life.

 

[Hapyniss]

Since you are new I will be completely open.


It is not possible to separate them because of they ARE basically one thing. I am my knowledge and use it to make this world a better place, the only thing that is real emotion here is actually my drive to actually do that. Beneath this there is still a personality but it is often not visible to others even I try to show it. This generally applys to all women and not just ENFPs. My problem is that I am INTJ towards both MBTI and Ennegram since my enneagram tritype stands for "The technical expert" that is basically the most robotic combination in ennegram.





We can say we are all individuals but this is me down to last letter. I am person that already in kindergarten was able to draw a correct picture of solar system, I have learned to play chess before I learned how to read. All of my proffesional interests were closely related to science, technology and management issues. I am person with which you can talk about nature of the unviverse, multimedia and broadcasting, formation of mountans, environment science and climate change etc. However I do not value knowledge purely for the sake of knowledge instead I use it to make concrete changes around me and I demand debates in order to prove that I am right. I want the best solution possible and do not really care about dinamics of power on personal level.


The fact is that my entire life as a whole was defined with emotional emptiness and horror. I was born in communist dictatorship and I grew up right next to the largest war zone in Europe after WW2. Already at the elemtary school age I witnessed how planes destroyed presidential office in my country. For me that had a huge philosophical consequence since this was a direct evidence of how much authority is just a social convention that has no ground in reality and I therefore do not get my heart involved in social norms or daily politics as normal people. Especially since I have studied geology enviromental science enough to know that the concept of modern society probably is not sustainable at physical and chemical level, what makes it hard for me to empathize with my environmet. I have even made a classification of scenarios of how human history will end.

My family was never trully involved in my life. My parents thought that everybody has a right to be their own person so they have left me be. What in the end turned out that emotional sense I have rised myself the best way I could. Especially since I do not have any siblings or even cousins, I also never even had a pet. Since the computers became relevant at that time my parents gave me a computer that rised me as one of its own. (so to speak). However with computer the computer games came into house so I have embraced that as well. Therefore already at the elementary schools age I was into games that were scary or too complex even to grown ups. One one hand I have spent large part of my childhood in hell slashing and blowing up monsters while one the other hand I was creating military structures and infrastructure, making budgets and led the offensives into neighbouring territories. Over the years I actually became so good it this that no body around me wanted to play with me.

Through out my life I had a few friendships but all of them lacked very deep and intimate component. Also it is striking that all of my connections were with guys, women always decided to stay away from me. For example back in school they were inviting everyone from the class to birthday party except me or they have openly ignored my "hi". The truth is that I have never managed to get along with women since I am somehow "scary". However my life made me isolated in some other ways as well. One year it even happened that I was the only student in the class, just me and teachers the whole year long. Also it happned that they have throw me out of university because they let me in because of administrative mistake, so I had to start from scratch.

I mean there is so much to tell but for now I will skip the details. The fact is that I am impressonation of certain INTJ stereotypes and I am basically only one lab accident from becoming a super vilian from movies. We can joke about it but the fact is that all off the elements are there. What is funny is that people watch such movies and see those intimidating traits in me since they are pretty visable if the converation has any depth. If I judge by my expriences ENFPs have discomfort from even thinking about having this kind of lifestory and they as well women in general seem to think that they are not up to the challange of dating me. (or they do not want that at all) I like ENFP girls but they tend to run away from me. My armor scares them since it makes me immune to basically everything, what is a a consequences of the fact that I had to become immune to everthing due to life circumstances. However none the less it would be soooo nice to have ENFP gf since there was never love in my life.

Interesting? I wonder if that is how that adage came about? Subtyping through MBTI - down to the last letter.

I know you weren't meant to be joking but there were cute parts in how you described your childhood that made me giggle. Like the computer raising you as one of it's own. Hahahahaha. Oh and the part where you spent your childhood in hell (meaning the game), but is a play on words because you grew up under a dictatorship in an actual war zone (no mention to that being hell...that was just everyday life). Irony. Love it!

It must be difficult to connect with people, not because you aren't or don't feel emotions, just that people aren't deep enough for you. They're not capable of the depth and intensity you are.

You childhood history and experiences bring out another curiosity from me. I wonder how many INTJ's came from horrific circumstances and if the I, T, J are stronger because the threshold for emotions needs to be lessened. It's overwhelming for a child-like mind to take in such horrors as war, dying, bloodshed, violence, and the permanence of death. I have to imagine there are some physiological changes that take place in the brain and the way it connects and deviates information; retention, memory, recall effected. Are you one of the INTJ's that distrusts your intuition until it's been hard proven against facts? Do you view people that use emotions to help set value systems and decisions as weak?
Given that social and economical environment, I could see why escaping fully into abstract external concepts - i.e. - the universe, climate change, etc., games even would be a coping mechanism. The inhumanity suffered would have to render a different emotional threshold - like fragility vs. antifragility/hormesis. You were exposed in doses over time thus altering your emotional paradigm. There are physiological chemical inhibitors at the synaptic terminals noted in individuals that have heightened emotional (inherently negative, or deemed negative by the experiencing) histories during certain stages of childhood development (enter Erikson or Piaget here). There are longitudinal studies that have revealed a significant correlation between heightened emotional state and increase retention. Albeit recall can result in skewed data, but interesting none the less. A child's interpretation of this inhumanity may be at play.

Another interesting observation is that you said an ENFP gf. Why? Just ENFP? What about the ENFP personality do you find compatible or enticing? What do you think it is about you that woman find scary? Perhaps it is something unresolved in them that being around you arouses. (perhaps their inability to control you or influence you with the typical feminine wiles) Just a thought. Do you think about falling in love? Do you think you'd ever be able to actually feel/emote the falling in love experience if you did find a special woman?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Interesting? I wonder if that is how that adage came about? Subtyping through MBTI - down to the last letter.

I know you weren't meant to be joking but there were cute parts in how you described your childhood that made me giggle. Like the computer raising you as one of it's own. Hahahahaha. Oh and the part where you spent your childhood in hell (meaning the game), but is a play on words because you grew up under a dictatorship in an actual war zone (no mention to that being hell...that was just everyday life). Irony. Love it!

It must be difficult to connect with people, not because you aren't or don't feel emotions, just that people aren't deep enough for you. They're not capable of the depth and intensity you are.

You childhood history and experiences bring out another curiosity from me. I wonder how many INTJ's came from horrific circumstances and if the I, T, J are stronger because the threshold for emotions needs to be lessened. It's overwhelming for a child-like mind to take in such horrors as war, dying, bloodshed, violence, and the permanence of death. I have to imagine there are some physiological changes that take place in the brain and the way it connects and deviates information; retention, memory, recall effected. Are you one of the INTJ's that distrusts your intuition until it's been hard proven against facts? Do you view people that use emotions to help set value systems and decisions as weak?
Given that social and economical environment, I could see why escaping fully into abstract external concepts - i.e. - the universe, climate change, etc., games even would be a coping mechanism. The inhumanity suffered would have to render a different emotional threshold - like fragility vs. antifragility/hormesis. You were exposed in doses over time thus altering your emotional paradigm. There are physiological chemical inhibitors at the synaptic terminals noted in individuals that have heightened emotional (inherently negative, or deemed negative by the experiencing) histories during certain stages of childhood development (enter Erikson or Piaget here). There are longitudinal studies that have revealed a significant correlation between heightened emotional state and increase retention. Albeit recall can result in skewed data, but interesting none the less. A child's interpretation of this inhumanity may be at play.

Another interesting observation is that you said an ENFP gf. Why? Just ENFP? What about the ENFP personality do you find compatible or enticing? What do you think it is about you that woman find scary? Perhaps it is something unresolved in them that being around you arouses. (perhaps their inability to control you or influence you with the typical feminine wiles) Just a thought. Do you think about falling in love? Do you think you'd ever be able to actually feel/emote the falling in love experience if you did find a special woman?

1. I trust my intuition. The main reason why I am detached from environment is because I have my own picture of the world. Which is however still backed up with facts, I have plenty of ideas and concepts but in the end I still like to make some kind of reality check if that is possible.



2. I do not have a problem with emotions as much as others may have a problem with my lack of emotional transparency. When you grow up near war you realize that someone has to cure all the hurt people that are more plentyful than ever. Someone has to take care of childern who lost one of both parents. Someone has to distribute food and supplies since the super market was blown to pieces ... etc.
Emotions have their place in the world and the only problems are when someone tries to convince me that something is black even if it is obvious that it is blue and it is important that everyone clearly sees that it is blue. Or when someone creates dama just for the sake of drama and disturbes everyone around them. Therefore I can come across as evil since I do not like to play games and I am pretty goal oriented.



3. Yes I have said that ENFPs would make an interesting gf for me. ENFP seem to have the ability to understand my words (like you did), but they would also give me warmth that I lack so much. The only real problem is how to solve the FP-TJ conflict that can be pretty bad sometimes. I do not say that I would never date anyone else but ENFPs as overall type seems to be interesting and in general I am attracted to EN women the most. Actually over the last 5 years I had a number of tries to hook up with someone but it did not work. This is mostly because of my personality and the fact that those girls all had plenty of their own issues they did not solve. In a way you must ask the other girls if I will ever have a girlfrind since this is their decision at this pont.

 

[Hapyniss]

1. I trust my intuition. The main reason why I am detached from environment is because I have my own picture of the world. Which is however still backed up with facts, I have plenty of ideas and concepts but in the end I still like to make some kind of reality check if that is possible.



2. I do not have a problem with emotions as much as others may have a problem with my lack of emotional transparency. When you grow up near war you realize that someone has to cure all the hurt people that are more plentyful than ever. Someone has to take care of childern who lost one of both parents. Someone has to distribute food and supplies since the super market was blown to pieces ... etc.
Emotions have their place in the world and the only problems are when someone tries to convince me that something is black even if it is obvious that it is blue and it is important that everyone clearly sees that it is blue. Or when someone creates dama just for the sake of drama and disturbes everyone around them. Therefore I can come across as evil since I do not like to play games and I am pretty goal oriented.



3. Yes I have said that ENFPs would make an interesting gf for me. ENFP seem to have the ability to understand my words (like you did), but they would also give me warmth that I lack so much. The only real problem is how to solve the FP-TJ conflict that can be pretty bad sometimes. I do not say that I would never date anyone else but ENFPs as overall type seems to be interesting and in general I am attracted to EN women the most. Actually over the last 5 years I had a number of tries to hook up with someone but it did not work. This is mostly because of my personality and the fact that those girls all had plenty of their own issues they did not solve. In a way you must ask the other girls if I will ever have a girlfrind since this is their decision at this pont.

I'm missing the bridge from emotional transparency, coming across as evil, and not playing games. Could you clue me in a bit more please? (It may be because right now, I don't see evil. I just see a uber intelligent guy)

The FP-TJ conflict? Expound...And also, aren't INTJ's problem solvers. Shouldn't you be able to put those problem solving skills to the FP-TJ conflict?

?Interesting? Saying that a hook up didn't work out and the girls having plenty of their own issues isn't exactly leaving it up to the girls as a decision. Sounds like you're making your own decisions regarding getting into a relationship. It's good to hear that it is with someone worth-while and not a drama queen.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm missing the bridge from emotional transparency, coming across as evil, and not playing games. Could you clue me in a bit more please? (It may be because right now, I don't see evil. I just see a uber intelligent guy)

The FP-TJ conflict? Expound...And also, aren't INTJ's problem solvers. Shouldn't you be able to put those problem solving skills to the FP-TJ conflict?

?Interesting? Saying that a hook up didn't work out and the girls having plenty of their own issues isn't exactly leaving it up to the girls as a decision. Sounds like you're making your own decisions regarding getting into a relationship. It's good to hear that it is with someone worth-while and not a drama queen.

You have a problem of perspective since now you have met the person that is for years investing into his personal-social skills and himself as general. I have deliberately tried to make myself more desirable and it worked ... in the case you met me a few years ago this conversation would look pretty differently. The fact is that now I am prepared to engage women more directly and we will see what will come out of that.




I never trully understood what makes me "evil" or cold etc. so I am not sure what to say. However people were complaining about this.
This can come from anything: using sarcasm on the teacher everyone was afraid (students and other teachers), even some parents of other kids came to me and said that I am their hero since they would never dare to do that to this woman. It can be also that I wrote a school essay that involved chainsaws, hell and car chases. Once I have even used my planning skills in order to hidde in the female locker room of my class, what has allowed me to catch the ladies with their pants down.


It can also be because I have entered my 30s and I have never been trully in love and I am not showing clear signs or regret about that (even if I am not actually physically unattractive). I am pretty good at shooting down peoples arguments and I may even do that just for fun sometimes. I have the love for dark, shocking and bizzare things. I can be very controlling if needed, for example during college education I was a group strategist in all group assignemnts, but people liked me because there was clear lack of drama and we always had very good final results. I know about science and politics much more than a average person. I often point out/notice what people are trying to hide. I can be invisible and sneak up on people even if I do not try to do that. I have played plenty of video games through out life so once it happned that I had 3 of my friends all teamed up against me but none the less they lost 350:0 and their ego did not took that too well. Basically it is tons of little things that can make a man go crazy around me, or it could be just that people are afraid that I constantly have at least two aces in my sleeve.




Well in some cases I brooke up the circus of hooking up process and sometimes girls did it.
I liked all of them but the drama was just too strong and they did not make peace with themselves about what they really want. The trick is that as I am from ex war zone that this effect has effected everbody in my generation. I have built walls and preserved many thing while majority took much more direct hit from this.

 

[grey_beard]

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...-enfp-fetishists-thread.html?highlight=fetish

That's the most horrifying thread ever created. Any type can see this combo is like a train carrying chemicals derailment behind a school, a cruise ship hitting an iceberg and a never ending fireworks display right next to your house, all rolled into one.

You mean something like this:

https://information2share.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/calvin-and-hobbes.jpg?w=614&h=383