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Why?

heart

heart on fire
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May 19, 2007
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Why do I post these things to my blog? I was wondering that. I feel disloyal when I do and feel that I need to delete them but I often don't, so why?

I guess I am seeking to make my thoughts/feelings more real, to get a better clarity on them or better direction on them.

I drift so much on a daily basis, especially on days when I have low level vertigo, it affects me more than just body, mentally it is like I have no direction and I am seeking direction for my thoughts so I can get some clarity, vision and get myself going, but I end up wasting too much time blabbling on and does it do me or anyone else for that matter any good? I am not sure, I sure hope it doesn't do anyone any harm but I cannot know that.

I wasted a lot of time today and I still don't feel focused.
 

heart

heart on fire
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It came to me partly why I was so aimless today, I feel guilt because of how I affect my husband. The things he is unhappy about in his life. I feel responsible because some of them came from my illness. I don't know what to do about that. There isn't much help for it yet. I get locked into a cycle of feeling guilt and I freeze up, the low level vertigo does not help because normally I would clean house to regain some Si sense, but on a day like today when I move around I get offbalance and queasy so I tend not to.

Without that grounding I think I just get ALL Ne, flirting from one topic to another and then pour out Fi thoughts as my mind goes from one topic to another and never finding clarity on any one issue. Result, waste of time. I hate when I waste my time! :steam: No one does that to me, I do it to myself! :steam:

I took some Dramamine and already getting better clarity, I figure this out again and again but for some reason I never accept it and remember it.
 

Hirsch63

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This is tricky. In my former life I was in a similar situation. In the end and looking back, the one sure path is open communication. But, there is a price. Just because you are open to it does not mean your partner truly is no matter what they say. Open communication sorts things out but then we have to be ready to be sorted or, all of our defenses will be thrown up against any unanticipated change that may be looming. It is an ideal to imagine that we might truly know the depths of our partners dreams...and perhaps the closest we can get is to make sure to the best of our ability that they can achieve those dreams, and that we do not lose sight of our own.

The long view of a relationship of any kind anticipates ups and downs...give and take, perfectly reasonable given the vicissitudes of life. Sometimes the unseen (like an illness) can lead us to feel as if we are draining too much from the partnership. But as above with their dreams, we may not know the extent of their tolerance or endurance. Of course it is wonderful when you discover the understanding devotion of a partner in every aspect of your relationship and it can be devastating to self-worth when that devotion suddenly dries up. Especially if unanticipated illness (where we are doing the "taking") is intruding on things.

Illness is a part of life though. Some families are less susceptible than others as are some individuals. Many people either passively or aggressively reject illness and just when you are down and using all your resources to deal with it, any slight (real or imagined) is amplified in our psyche.

You are being honest. Maybe you are practicing here for RL...well, honesty is a start and reading it here on the screen may let you see objectively just how important these things are to you, or aren't.
 
G

Guest

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Why do I post these things to my blog? I was wondering that. I feel disloyal when I do and feel that I need to delete them but I often don't, so why?

I guess I am seeking to make my thoughts/feelings more real, to get a better clarity on them or better direction on them.

I've brought up my work situation (an ongoing downsizing) a couple times in the context of other threads, and it helps put things in perspective. Thoughts are formless in my head; I get dwelling on certain aspects, and the picture gets out of balance. But when I put them down on paper, they become solid and mundane. Much more handleable. I become just another message board member with an ongoing situation of some sort.

Also, I like full disclosure. If something big is going on in my life, I like to reflect it on the message board just so that people here get as good a picture of me as they would if we were relating in real life--just in case it provides context for something I mention about on the message board. That's probably Fi at work: making sure my external aspect matches my self-picture.
 
G

Guest

Guest
It came to me partly why I was so aimless today, I feel guilt because of how I affect my husband. The things he is unhappy about in his life. I feel responsible because some of them came from my illness.

Sounds like you're struggling with two issues.

1) It sounds like you're worried that your husband may be resentful of you because of your illness and may not love you as much as he says. (And from that, you get guilt about making your husband unhappy.)

2) Then there's the issue that INFJs aren't the most demonstrative people even in the best of times, and thus the relationship isn't as warm as you would like.

The two items feed on each other; for example, when the relationship isn't warm, you wonder if he really cares and/or if he's getting resentful about being dragged down by your illness.

At least that's how it sounds.

But FWIW, I've found that I can take INFJs pretty much at face value. If he says he's going to stick by you, then he'll do that. IOW, if you can trust what he says and quell your fears about item 1, maybe it will become that much easier to deal with item 2.

Does that make sense, or am I totally off? I'm interpolating a lot from my own experiences with INFJs .
 

disregard

mrs
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Resent is such poison. That is the same divide between my mother and I.. Mutual resent.
 
G

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I have been open and honest so often I am sick of it. I try not to say much any more. I am told that I need to just not "bring up the bad"

I don't mean to intrude on your space; I'll just say this and then I'll drop it.

From some of the things you said, it sounds like your husband is giving you a free pass on your illness. True, it's a big complication in your married life, but presumably he won't hold it against you if you don't make it an issue. ("I am told that I need to just not 'bring up the bad.'")

I had an INFJ boss for many years. One time one of my subordinates screwed up badly, so badly that I had to kick the mess upstairs into my boss's lap. It had repercussions that complicated my boss's life for a while, and I felt bad about it. It wasn't my fault at all; I did everything by the book. But still it created quite a mess for my boss.

I was very apologetic to my boss repeatedly and moped about it a bit; I felt guilty in that I might have seen it coming earlier and headed it off. In turn, he reassured me a couple times that there was nothing I could have done and that he had every confidence in me and was prepared to back me to the hilt.

One day I was moping and apologizing to him for the fourth or fifth time, and he blew up at me in anger. He said, "I told you that I would back you on this. So why do you keep needing reassurances from me? Why don't you trust me?"

After that, I didn't bug him about it any more. I straightened up, dropped the subject once and for all, and went back to being cheerful, chipper, and business-as-usual. And after that, we got along just fine.

I know that my boss had to put in additional time dealing with the incident; once or twice he came to me with updates. But I didn't apologize or anything. I just thanked him for the updates and left it at that. And everything was fine. In later years, he referred back to the incident once or twice, but only to make a joke at that subordinate's expense; he didn't refer back to me being needy or imply in any way that I had fallen short.

All in all, over the years, I learned not to be "needy" around that boss. Any kind of neediness would bring him down fast and get him cranky. He would say, "Don't come to me with problems; come to me with solutions." IOW, if I had a problem, then before going to him I thought up and researched a couple ways to handle the situation; and I presented those solutions to him along with the problem. He would then tinker with my solutions and fine-tune them to meet his needs, and then he would send me on my way. And he loved it. He was delighted that I didn't just come to him and drop raw problems in his lap and make him deal with them cold. I had already done the brainstorming and the research; he just fine-tuned and tinkered.

I also learned to take him at his word. If he said that I was doing fine, then I quit worrying about his opinion of me and assumed that I was doing fine. I think that that was his biggest gripe about people. He picked his words carefully, and he wanted people to hear him the first time around and trust his words to be true.

Also, he wanted things to be upbeat and positive. It didn't mean that he wouldn't listen to bad news. After all, there were tough assignments and problems all the time. But he wanted me and the other lower managers to be on the same wavelength as him. So once he had delivered a verdict, then he didn't want to hear any more moaning and groaning about it. He was perfectly willing to bear his fair share of the burden or even take the majority on himself--he was more than fair in that respect. But the trade-off was that he didn't want to hear neediness and negative vibes. That would just drive him nuts and bring him down.

So extrapolating from my boss to your husband: It may be that your husband is perfectly willing to put up with your illness, and he may feel that he has given you more than enough reassurances that he won't hold it against you (and he probably means every word of it). But in return, he doesn't want to hear negativity about it: "Don't bring up the bad."

And if he feels that you're moping about it or that you don't trust his reassurances, that may be when he withdraws from you--because those things would probably hit him pretty hard, judging from the example of my boss.

He's asking a lot of you, of course; it's probably pretty difficult for you not to be negative about such a debilitating illness. But FWIW, if you can trust him to keep his promise to be tolerant of your illness, and if you can otherwise be upbeat or at least not be overtly negative about all the ways the illness is affecting your life, you may find that his overall mood will improve quite a bit.

In my experience with my boss, my boss's mood was very much affected by my mood. Problems came and went, and sometimes the problems were big ones. But as long as I kept upbeat and positive about things, he stayed upbeat and happy too. OTOH, if I got down in the dumps and complained about even small problems, it pulled him down as well. And if I was negative for any length of time at all, he would avoid me altogether or get stressed out and start fussing at me.

I'm still not sure if that was just him or if it was all INFJs. But with him, I felt that his mood was largely a mirror of my mood. I had a tremendous ability to affect his moods positively or negatively, so I had to be careful and deliberate about how I presented myself to him. He was always in my corner, as promised, but in return he expected me to keep things upbeat and on a positive note--because my moods had such a big effect on his moods.

By the way, I worked for that boss for 11 or 12 years, and I was in his office doing business with him at least once or twice a day (and often many times a day). My office door was 10 feet from his, so we interacted all the time. Overall, I would say that he was the best boss I ever worked for. The only trick was to watch out for the mood thing.

Oh well, that's just my own experience with INFJs. Good luck, Heart!
 

heart

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Sure, sure, it would great if he were really giving me a free pass, but he isn't. He just admitted so again tonight that he feels resentful about the changes and limitations I go through.

I cannot tell which is the Fe mindless cant, the free pass bit or the I resent it bit.

I was all down and quiet tonight and that got me some tenderness and understanding and the honest admission instead of the withdrawal.
 
G

Guest

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Well obviously he resents the changes. He can't help but notice them. As I said above, they're a big complication. He would be a liar to say otherwise.

But does he resent you because of the changes?

I suspect he doesn't, as long as the negativity can be kept to a minimum.

[Edit:] By the way, when I met my current wife she had fibromyalgia. By the time I convinced her to quit her job and move in with me, it had gotten pretty bad. She couldn't stand up for long, had lots of pain, was limited in her activities, etc. She probably wasn't quite as bad as the way you describe your situation (I think you said you have some kind of chronic fatigue disorder too), but it definitely limited her.

But other than her own physical discomfort, it wasn't that big a deal. It left her pretty wiped out all the time, we couldn't engage in a lot of physical activities, and I had to do most of the picking up and cleaning. But other than that it didn't have a big effect. And since I'm not Fe, I wasn't particularly put out by her being a bit down and moody at times--my own mood wasn't dictated by hers. She would gripe and complain, but with me it just went in one ear and out the other. (Also she was taking amitriptyline which kept her from getting too low.)

Once she quit her job and could rest up properly, she eventually bounced back. It took a couple years. Even today, she still needs a good 8-10 hours of sleep minimum and gets some twinges of pain, but she's got 90 percent of her energy and strength back--we do ballroom dancing and work out at the gym. Though I still do most of the picking up and cleaning. :)

But again, I don't remember it as being that big a deal, and certainly not any reason to resent her. People get sick and need care. It's not a big deal. It just made our activities more sedentary then they might have otherwise been.

*********************

Oh well, I'll drop out of the thread. I don't want to tell you how to run your marriage or how to handle your illness. I'm just trying to parse how your illness would impact an INFJ husband; and I suspect it's less about you or the illness and instead mostly just about handling the associated negativity. Fe people can be very susceptible to other people's moods. I think in an old thread, Toonia or one of the other INFJs talked about how difficult it was to grow up in a family with INFP members, because the INFPs' mood changes trashed her Fe sensibilities. Also, see again the story about my boss.

So it seems to me that the negativity is something worth considering.
 

cafe

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FWIW, the mirroring thing rings very true for me and illness is especially hard for me to deal with because it makes me feel SO helpless and there is nothing I can do to bring about closure.

I want to be loving and understanding and nurturing, but I feel angry and frustrated and resentful. I don't resent the person, I resent the illness but the illness isn't there to take it out on so the person bears the brunt of it.

When one of the kids is hurt or sick, my husband usually handles the kid and I handle cleaning up the vomit or dealing with the doctors, etc because I either get impatient or I fall completely to pieces. I just can't handle it.

I still cried when our fourth baby got shots. I have to exert heroic effort to keep from crying when I hear other people's babies crying at the doctor. I hate it so much when I can't hold it together and it makes me testy.

I detest that I am like this. It goes against everything I want to be, but I don't really have any idea how to change it.

I feel for you because I know how I get with people and it isn't nice at all and when you don't feel good, you need some nice or at least a little understanding. Wish I had something useful to offer. :hug:
 

heart

heart on fire
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Fineline, I am glad to hear your wife found a way to cope with her fibromyalgia. Yes, I have CFS (or at least that was the latest diagnosis) the worst part is chronic nausea/vertigo.

Cafe, that is true for him as well in how he deals with illness.

He is sometimes pretty frank (and most of the time when that happens he is less withdrawn for a time) and he resents and has a hard time understanding my limits.

He gets frustrated at the situation, but I am the one who deals with the withdrawal so it does NOT matter if he is truly holding resentment against me or the situation, I am the one who suffers when he withdraws or becomes harsh and he can split hairs all damn day that he is frustrated with the situation and not me, but it I who suffers when he won't be open and honest about it.

Part of it is his bad memory for facts, he doesn't remember the facts and then he assumes and then he has an unclear picture of my situation.

I have been his memory for 19 years, as soon as he met me and discovered I had a little memory, he expected me to remember stuff for him and so I know this is a factor.
 

cafe

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You're right. If you are taking the hit, it doesn't matter what's going on inside his head, you are still taking the hit and it still hurts. It isn't okay and he needs to find some way to come to terms with the situation as it is and as it is likely to be for the duration.

If my husband became chronically ill, I would have get some kind of support through a therapist or a support group or something because I just suck that bad. It's the only way I could cope long term and be halfway like a human being.

I depend on him a lot. He is a stabilizing force for me and he also buoys my moods with his sense of humor. When he is feeling bad my mood suffers dramatically and I don't even notice it until he feels better. It's just suddenly everything is okay again.

It's as if I'm not even me when he isn't himself. Or maybe I'm not a me I like very well, I don't know. Either way, it's scary. Really scary. But life is like that and you deal. I hope your husband will soon find a way to deal.
 

heart

heart on fire
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Cafe, that's very helpful to hear your perspective like that. I knew this about his moods and the caretaking of them he needed when we married, I would not have been able to put it to words but I knew it. And for the most part it has been fine, but there are some times when I get to a point where I want him to want to come at me emotionally from his own internal impetious and that's always been hard because left on his own he just withdraws into himself and gets a bit surly and I have a tendancy to see that as him having no real, true interest in me as individual...

Well, anyway now the problem is, I don't always have the energy to expend on his F needs and he tends to withdraw a lot and I take it as rejection and also he withdraws when he feels bitter about life and my limitations (car rides make me feel sick and exahust me, I am exhausted a lot and not the best housekeeper this sort of thing) are part of what makes him bitter about life but last night we talked honestly for a little while about it and I told him AGAIN how things really are for me and he said he hadn't realized it was still that bad and I want to say "Because you spend all your time totally self aborbed in your own head!" but instead I just try to be patient about that. So now he is more tender, sympathetic but how long until he forgets and assumes again? I just don't know.
 

Geoff

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Have you had him read up on MBTI stuff? I think many people paired with an INFP (illness or not) would benefit a huge amount by reading some decent descriptions of what makes them tick. In particular, it can help with gaining an understanding of the "self absorbed in your own head" perception.
 

heart

heart on fire
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He won't. He was mildly interested back when I was tested in college but now he doesn't understand what I expect to get out of continuing to study it.

He's way more into his own head than I am actually.

Edit: One thing I wish he could know better is although I seem to have a cool exterior and distant, I really have soft insides that need times of softer treatment.

His moods can be so harsh and I can flex with them a lot but it begins to wear me down and drain me when that is all I see.
 

alcea rosea

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I can very much relate to your comment with the feeling of disloyalty. That is why I delete later on my posts, because I feeli disloyal about writing them.
 
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