why doesn't God love me?

[miss fortune]

yeah... I think that the feeling of divide there is the split between traditional religion (I grew up in the rural midwest- god was always refered to as a guy, so when in doubt as to what pronoun to use, I usually find it easier to just use masculine ones so that the conversation doesn't get sidetracked by gender discussion... as we can see this works FANTASTICALLY! ) and anything that fits with what my views on things are... and somehow that irks my Fe-ish need to connect

*joins the church of Saslou*

and yeah, to JJJ, the most "connection" to things I've felt is at times when I've done something like pull off the main road, lay on the hood of my car and just look at the stars

and to cafe- I guess it isn't an introversion thing I am terrible at being an introvert... I really don't know what it would relate to now that I'm thinking

 

[01011010]

As mentioned above, you can think of god in other ways. Like good works, selfless love, and kindness. I'm converting to Reform Judaism. My teachers have said it's normal to question the existence of a personal (all-knowing) fairytale like god. They don't believe in that idea either, but they say it's good to focus on the positive in this world, and attribute that to what god could be.

 

[miss fortune]

yeah, I don't think I could beleive in a religion that didn't support questioning... that would make it too cultlike for me...

and I actually enjoyed going to temple because of the discussions of doing good and the fact that they didn't talk about "the evils of sin"... a positive focus is totally a wonderful thing- too many places I've been said "don't do this- it's evil" as opposed to "try to do good"

and one thing that I remembered that's always stuck in my mind is actually writen by an astrologer she intentionally mixed up the word Good with God while writing... I kind of liked that in a way

 

[Tigerlily]

you're are having these feelings because you are getting older and putting the pieces together. completely normal. i grew up being told that i had to believe in god and recently when i mentioned something about it to my mother, i was taken aback by her, "YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD?!?!" reply. i've been spoken to rather aggressively by more than one christian whenever i've brought questions up that they don't know the answer to.

i'm not really sure what i believe in but at this point and time in my life, so for now i am comfortable sitting on the fence. in other words i am too insecure as a human being to announce that there is nothing but this, but i am leaning much more towards that way of thinking than ever before.

i am currently reading the god delusion and so far it speaks volumes to me as did religulous but i normally keep these opinions to myself, especially since i live in the bible belt and prefer to not be preached to. i respect other people's beliefs and expect the same in return.

edit: i'd also like to add that i went to church on and off for years and went to a christian elementary, middle and high school. my mother believes in god because society tells her she needs too, but she doesn't go to church. i have a few intelligent christian friends (cafe is one) but most of the religious people that i come into contact with are nut job hypocrites and not too bright.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

and yeah, to JJJ, the most "connection" to things I've felt is at times when I've done something like pull off the main road, lay on the hood of my car and just look at the stars

I don't know what your connectedness experience is on the hood of your car. Like I said, the one I've experienced is a physical sensation which seems to originate from the stomach. It differs from an acid experience in that it feels overwhelmingly peaceful, clean, homely (in the non-ugly sense) and right. If it's all in the head then it certainly has psychosomatic effects for me. It doesn't seem to have much to do with what I'm thinking about at the time, since it has surprised me with its advent on a number of occasions. Man, I don't even know why I'm telling you this. I guess I just want you to know that when/if you have the experience, you'll know it. You won't have to talk yourself into it, or ask yourself if it really happened. That's been my experience, at least. But I'm not the best person to talk to on the subject by any stretch of the imagination. It's difficult to imagine a worse person tbh.

 

[cafe]

and to cafe- I guess it isn't an introversion thing I am terrible at being an introvert... I really don't know what it would relate to now that I'm thinking

The reason I thought it was an introversion thing was because my religion is very extrovert oriented. Everybody is supposed to be emotionally expressive and exuberant during worship. Everybody is supposed to be out there boldly telling everyone about Jesus. Everybody is supposed to be at church three times a week, plus involved in a couple of other group ministry things regularly.

The other stuff like Supporting Our Troops and voting republican and being against gay marriage and in favor of school prayer isn't related I/E but you get the idea.

I figured I'm just not the target audience because I'm an introverted weirdo, but you aren't an introverted weirdo, you're just really smart. So there went that theory.

 

[miss fortune]

yeah... to add more confusion into the mix, my ISTJ has the same feelings on religion as I do... he was actually somewhat thrilled with my additions to the amount of books on religion in the house (you'd think that we were running an interfaith seminary here ) Both of us overthink things too much to just go with the flow of a mainstream religion in a way...

And I enjoyed both the god delusion and religulous- I have a devoutly christian friend who I've gotten in long debates with over the idea that there is "one true religion" before- knowlege from both sources came in useful in a way- but the idea that "if you're not Christian, you don't beleive in God" was mentioned as well

and I never get the feeling of wonder and awe in the presence of a church or holy book that I do in staring at the night sky or looking at a forest... churches just seem to have taken the spirit out of religion in a way

 

[cafe]

FWIW, I once had to leave a worship service because I really needed to go stand outside in the rain. I needed to feel God out there, not in a stuffy building singing stupid songs. I imagine if anyone realized what I was doing they must have thought I was a complete kook. Maybe rightfully so.

 

[miss fortune]

I think you had it right

it's like I Heard The Learned Astronomer, in a way

 

[Virtual ghost]

It doesn't really count if the only reason you're doing it is to get something out of it.

It seems like many folks want to make God into some sort of genie that fits conveniently in their back pocket. Something they can take out whenever they need something or want to feel better about life, but that goes back into hiding the rest of the time.

I've heard it best put this way, God isn't there to deliver you from your troubles, but to deliver you through them.

I'm of the opinion that spirituality can be whatever you want it to be. Do what works for you, whether that is meditating on your own, or going to church or w/e.

It's all about what works for you, makes you happy, and helps you to become a better person.

I hope that wasn't as confusing as it sounded in my head.

Well when I said results that was just a Te vocabulary. Mean I too don't think about religion as something what just gives power to abuse. So I agree with you.


But even with that in mind I am hopeless case when it comes to spirituality.
I simply ask too many questions instead of just feeling things. Plus that same T provides peace so there is no need for something that will calm me down.




Btw Whatever I think you are not the kind of a person for this kinds of things. You are simply too much all over the place to fit into something like this. (toward my personal opinion)

 

[miss fortune]

Btw Whatever I think you are not the kind of a person for this kinds of things. You are simply too much all over the place to fit into something like this. (toward my personal opinion)

but I want to be LESS scattered!

 

[Katsuni]

Technically, according to the bible, hell doesn't exist. At least not yet. People having near death experiences involving hell are under an error of judgement as it's yet to even be created, and is supposed to occur AFTER the rapture, which hasn't happened.



And of course, there's the fact, that the chances are hell won't exist then either as was merely added in by priests who were controlling the masses back then as a way of enticing the peasants and serfs into behaving. "Do as we say OR GO TO HELL >=O " is a good way to get people to listen to yeu without question.

Excommunication used to be a fate worse than death, and was thrown around for all sorts of silly reasons.

If yeu carefully read over the bible, there's actually alot of stuff mentioned in it that doesn't make any sense at all in any religious sense, but on practical grounds it looks like it was put in there for the sake of trying to keep people from being stupid and killing themselves. According to leviticus even, yeu can't eat shellfish. Which isn't something "evil", it's just a high chance of food poisoning is all back then and the mortality rates were already high enough as it was.



In any case, hell's been viewed alot of ways. The absence of god. Solitary confinement. Burning hellfire. Many views beyond those as well. Chances are none of them are real, honestly.

Then again, the god of the bible is a bigoted, fussy spoiled child with a bad temper and a huge ego but no interest in lifting a finger to help anyone directly. He let his angels go to war and kill each other off rather than just perform one miracle to show he existed, because they went into a holy war because about 1/3rd of them didn't believe he existed, or didn't believe he was truly godlike if he DID exist. And humans were only made because the angels killed so many of each other off that god didn't have enough people to worship him any longer. Hence why he told them to go forth and multiply; so that he'd have more worshipers.

That being said, I can't believe in the god listed in the bible. He doesn't deserve worship. I'd like to think that if there IS a higher power, that he's not even more flawed than I am as a mere mortal. For someone who's supposedly the pure embodiment of good and knows all, sees all, and loves all, bible god is a real ass, and nowheres near related to the one most christians worship or preach about.

Bible god would probably damn everyone to hellfire; he's kind of a jerk like that. He didn't mind wiping out nearly the entire population of the planet either, nor letting one of his most devoted follower's life be torn apart by satan on a bet. Bible god's enough of an ass he probably would let everyone go to hell who didn't worship him. We can only hope that the real God, if there is one, isn't the spoiled brat of a child that bible god is.

 

[Virtual ghost]

but I want to be LESS scattered!

Wanting and getting it are two very different things. I am sorry but I simply don't see you as someone that will just settle down and believe. (at least not in at this age)


Maybe if you manage to develope some Fi you will have a chance.

 

[durentu]

I'm a buddhist, but I understand the catholic/christian lingo. So I present what I know is truth through christian genre.


The thing about God is that people assume they know what the deal is, but never read up on it. Even some of the priests and reverends I talked to all contradict themselves. If pressed for an answer, they will serve up crap because their position of authority commands it.

It wasn't until I struck out on my own trying to find answers and the pivotal point was then I learned the cardinals and upper priests didn't think of God as someone you can shake hands with. God is just a concept.

Finding God to provide you with a feeling of happiness is the same thing as finding cocaine to provide you with a feeling of happiness. They are both extrinsic. I hear people praying for things and I do multiple face palms because they got it all wrong.

At the core of it, it's the service that's important. God it's just something like a figurehead that makes it easier to align the actions. In the service of God, love thy neighbor, the 10 commandments, etc. It's one's own actions and efforts to uphold these principles that bring happiness and self esteem. God cannot give you these things and doesn't. If you help someone else, you feel good because you were in a position to make someone else smile. God didn't give you jack squat. It's your own efforts.

It doesn't matter which religion you follow. The most important thing is the life of practiced religion that brings "god into your life".

The thing about daily prayer is another way of goal setting. It's a way of aligning your mind to focus on things. If you pray in the mornings and at the evening, your mind is focused and your subjective experience or subjective window is tuned to those things you prayed about.

This is the important part of practicing a religion. It's for personal reasons and it's INTRINSIC. If you need church or God to keep you going, then you're a crack addict.


In my youth, I studied the bible and understood it's tenets, but I hated the church with a passion because most of them were hypocrites. Be kind only on sunday but be a bitch on the other days. And it was the most atrocious use of God' forgiveness I've ever seen. "If I murder someone, I'll just as for forgiveness and I'll be square with god". It was messed up.

One thing I did learn was that you don't need church to be with god. You never had to, or ever will need the church. Don't be nice to people and expect rewards from god. "god works in mysterious ways". And the foolish thing that they waste their lives trying to find god, when all they has to do was to look inside and find that god was with them all along.

 

[Lark]

To start off- I'm not intentionally anti-religious by any means- I grew up with a mother who loved to go to church and has the pleasant and gentle view that God's there for us whether we want him to be or not, and he loves us all equally. This should have been a good grounds to feeling SOMETHING towards God, I'd think, but apparently it wasn't

To make it more confusing, I even spent 4 months living in a convent as part of a room and board package once... they were cool nuns, they loved humanity in general and had such an optimistic and non-judgemental attitude towards it. They really DID put their faith into good works to help the poor, the sick, the un-spoken... even if the people in question weren't even Christian- they were wonderful people, but I still didn't FEEL anything

I've gone to various different types of churches- I've been to temple several times, I have gone to mosque on several occasions, to a few pagan celebrations... I've studied Hinduism, Buddhism and have even attended a Ba'hai service and still I don't feel that I fit...

What's up with this God fellow and why does he taunt me so?

I would LOVE to beleive in something, have a community of a sort and have that feeling of safety, calm and acceptance that people can find with religion but it just doesn't click. Part of this is because I feel that who I AM doesn't quite jive correctly with a lot of religions- for some I'm too exhuberant and fascinated by sensory experiences, for some I am an evil sinful harlot... and I can't stand the idea of a religion that would send anyone to Hell... if I couldn't do it I sure as hell don't want to beleive in a God who would

And it's not that I'm an atheist either- I beleive in something- just the thought that I can't quite put my finger on it really bugs me... religions fascinate me, I love reading about them, but I can't manage to fit in

What sort of sick bastard of a deity would do that to a person?

Is it a deity which is responsible for this? Why do you not quite "Jive" with these different spriritual communities and should you even? Perhaps you've been called to be agnostic and skeptical to counter the fervour and fundamentalism of others in the world?

I search as you do for spiritual answers, the filters which are most consolatory to myself are those which I've been culturally attuned to in some ways, though having read Jung I try not to let those filters become blinkers.

Better to feel the way you do than to settle for less.

 

[gromit]

but I want to be LESS scattered!

but why?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

But even with that in mind I am hopeless case when it comes to spirituality.
I simply ask too many questions instead of just feeling things. Plus that same T provides peace so there is no need for something that will calm me down.

I'm about as T as it gets, and I've found that questioning my faith has only made it stronger.

I don't think I would like to believe in anything I was forbidden to question.

I get the feeling that most of the antagonism towards God in this thread would be more apt if it were directed specifically at those acting as his liaison.

 

[sculpting]

and I never get the feeling of wonder and awe in the presence of a church or holy book that I do in staring at the night sky or looking at a forest... churches just seem to have taken the spirit out of religion in a way

FWIW, I once had to leave a worship service because I really needed to go stand outside in the rain. I needed to feel God out there, not in a stuffy building singing stupid songs. I imagine if anyone realized what I was doing they must have thought I was a complete kook. Maybe rightfully so.

These are awesome. I totally appreciate finding god in the rain.

but why?

hehehe...!

Yup, being raised baptist certainly drains any joy out of god and leaves no sense of connection.

I spent a couple of years back reading up on hinduisim. There were several different ways you could worship:

1. action
2. devotion
3. knowledge
4. the last one which I cant remember right now.

Anyways the point was that each of has has a path by which we can touch god/sacredness/"gooey weird in between stuff o' religion".

 

[Lark]

The whole thing about Hell guys, neither God nor anyone else is any way able to prevent people going to hell, in this life or an afterlife, if you've ever tried with a family member or friend who's got debilitating personality problems, PTSD or alcoholism you'll know this.

Its not so much a case of being punitive or eager to make people feel the consequences of their actions, the reality is simply that there ARE consequences. For instance do you blame God or Gravity if you walk off a cliff and die?

 

[simulatedworld]

Wanting and getting it are two very different things. I am sorry but I simply don't see you as someone that will just settle down and believe. (at least not in at this age)


Maybe if you manage to develope some Fi you will have a chance.

She's a TP; don't expect much Fi. Fortunately Ti can serve the same purpose, so no worries.

The whole thing about Hell guys, neither God nor anyone else is any way able to prevent people going to hell, in this life or an afterlife, if you've ever tried with a family member or friend who's got debilitating personality problems, PTSD or alcoholism you'll know this.

Its not so much a case of being punitive or eager to make people feel the consequences of their actions, the reality is simply that there ARE consequences. For instance do you blame God or Gravity if you walk off a cliff and die?

I feel like this argument has really missed the point. The arguments for Hell, God, etc. being illogical are intended to show inductively that there is a very low probability that Hell even exists in the first place. Your argument seems to work only for people who already believe in Hell but are complaining that it's unfair.

So when people point out how nonsensical the idea of Hell really is, telling them, "It doesn't matter if it's illogical because it's real and them's the facts yo" doesn't really contribute anything meaningful because you've failed to show compelling evidence that Hell exists at all, and reason points to a high probability that it doesn't.