[MBTI General] Why do some thinkers demonize feelers?

[booyalab]

where's the "because feelers deserve it" option?

jk. But seriously, this isn't that complicated. There are stupid people. There are mean people. There are people who are both stupid and mean. When the people in category #3 meet anyone in either of the other categories it usually leads to gross stereotyping. (though sometimes they can set aside their similarities and form a stalwart bond)

 

[nolla]

Damn, my answer is not an option on the poll...

The "thinkers" who demonize feelers are actually mistyped feelers themselves.

I'm not sure how probable this is, but it is certainly a possibility. Mistyping yourself is so easy if you suppress your emotions. Or, if you have no social life, and still are a feeler, you would on many tests come out as a T.

I also like these views:

SO basically add that all up, and you'll get kids who are pissed off at bossy 'Fs' and people IRL who they feel set upon them with irrational emotionally expressive ways. They want a soothing place where they don't have to deal with this kind of person or really kind of interaction, where the quiet and order of online communication strips everything to the logic and predictability and safety of words and methodical ideas.

Yes?

Ironically, a true thinker would really be looking at feelers dispassionately and acceptingly rather than feeling negative emotions about feelers - apparently emotions such as disdain, fear, dislike, aversion, annoyance, etc.

Interesting you picked the word demonize. I don't know how deeply you thought about your word choice, but it is suggestive to me of projecting their disowned and distorted shadow onto feelers.

 

[Anja]

It's because very emotional people sometimes don't respond to reason, which leaves us helpless when dealing with them. It's that simple I think. E's, S's, and J's have tendencies that I don't like so much either, but it doesn't mean I don't like people with different mbti functions than mine.

I'd like to offer my viewpoint on the comment, aj, about being "helpless" in dealing with people. The way you've worded your puzzlement edges close to justification for brow-beating others. And I'm guessing you would never want to do that. To my perception that is a false belief that can lead to confusing and adversarial relationships.

I'd like to offer encouragement to reformulate this idea for yourself. With good communication skills and the knowledge you are building by participating on this board you are on your way to communicating with various styles of personality in a way which can build confidence and a sense of connection, if not understanding, with others.

Who wants to feel helpless in their relationships with others? No one. So make a few changes and empower yourself. Healthy folks are all about ready to support your transformation from "helpless" to confident.

 

[runvardh]

where's the "because feelers deserve it" option?

jk. But seriously, this isn't that complicated. There are stupid people. There are mean people. There are people who are both stupid and mean. When the people in category #3 meet anyone in either of the other categories it usually leads to gross stereotyping. (though sometimes they can set aside their similarities and form a stalwart bond)

And this seems to represent a large portion of the percieved population...

 

[Anja]

Well. And "stupid" and "mean" are social disabilities in others that strike us at a gut level. Fear? Possibly. Either quality in another human sends out red flags. Sometimes for me it strikes too close to home to be comfortable.

What would a good response to either be?

Some think punuishment of some sort. Ostracization. Verbal or physical battering. A personally smug, self-superior attitude. These are common defenses against something which disturbs us.

What do do those subjective reponses do to improve our general social condition? So far, I haven't seen that group of reactions produce an improved society. . .

 

[Athenian200]

I've been on these forums for a while and it seems like every month or so I see some thread asking why feelers suck or why we need feelings or something like that. (And that is not even counting the ones started by BlueWing.) On top of that even outside the forum I see people complain about feeling type behavior more than vice versa. As a thinker I have to admit that I don't really understand my own kind on this issue, so I thought I'd come to the NF forum, i.e. those who understand people the best.

So feelers, please give me the straight dope. Why do there seem to be a lot of thinkers that demonize people with a feeling preference? Is it lack of socializing, confusion about MBTI, irrational fear of empathy, or something else entirely? Also why do fewer feelers seem to return in kind?

Well, there are at least a few reasons. The classical one in MBTI is given in "Gifts Differing":

Thinkers, for instance, notice the lack of logic in a feeling type, and they tend to underrate the others judgment because it is not logical. They have reason to distrust feeling. Knowing their own feeling is erratic and not very serviceable, thinkers try to keep it out of their decisions and assume that other people's feeling is no more trustworthy than their own. Actually, the feeling of the feeling types is a more skilled judge even than the thinker's thinking, for example, in judging which things people value most.

This is probably the most common reason. The other reason is probably due to a desire to boost their own ego as Thinking types, or because they've been hurt by a Feeling type and unconsciously want sympathy or something.

Yet another reason could be mistaking Feeling function for emotion, and assuming that Feeling types make their decisions based on emotion, not recognizing Feeling as a form of value judgment based on more than simple emotion.

Actually, feelers do complain about thinking types when hurt by them... we just tend not to do it so publicly, because we don't want to hurt them, and don't want to worry about defending our feelings against various other perspectives. If I have to defend my feelings against arguments, that's missing the point of sharing them, because they are by nature subjective.

 

[Sunshine]

When individuals are unwilling to acknowledge their responsibility in their state discontentment and their power to secure their own happiness, then they will be a source of radiant negative energy.

Wow.

Do you write at all?

 

[Sunshine]

I gripe about people being illogical as much or more than I gripe about them being heartless.

Oh I don't. But I'm an Enneagram 4 and an HSP.
People not knowing how to treat each other is my biggest pet peeve. (Not that I always treat people the way I should )
But people being illogical does get irritating once in a while. Especially when I'm the one being illogical. =P

 

[disregard]

Wow.

Do you write at all?

Only every day.

 

[FemMecha]

I've been on these forums for a while and it seems like every month or so I see some thread asking why feelers suck or why we need feelings or something like that. (And that is not even counting the ones started by BlueWing.) On top of that even outside the forum I see people complain about feeling type behavior more than vice versa. As a thinker I have to admit that I don't really understand my own kind on this issue, so I thought I'd come to the NF forum, i.e. those who understand people the best.

So feelers, please give me the straight dope. Why do there seem to be a lot of thinkers that demonize people with a feeling preference? Is it lack of socializing, confusion about MBTI, irrational fear of empathy, or something else entirely? Also why do fewer feelers seem to return in kind?

I think it is actually a byproduct of our social values. Western society sets a priority on scientific investigation, which has moved us forward in many ways. It is possible that the layman's interpretation of reason tends towards this rejection of emotion and other aspects of their humanity. The arts are continually at risk in society. Arguments can be made that our society lacks balance and integration of our humanity in favor of compartmentalism.

MBTI and the Thinker vs. Feeler dichotomy is a theory, not a proven fact. What is proven is that the limbic system in human brains regulates and processes emotional responses. We all also have a frontal lobe which regulates both reason and emotion.

Creating lower resolution of people through systems like MBTI helps us to more easily process reality. What often happens in these threads that attack some MBTI function is that we have a person who has had a negative social experience they wish to avoid in the future and need a place to rant about it. Those disappointments are then categorized as resulting from a specific category of people and this category is rejected in an attempt to avoid future disappointments.

The irony with the "T" rejection of "F" is that it, like all other examples of this sort of thing, is prejudicial and results from personal feeling and disappointment at social interactions. It is one of the most telling proofs that the differences between T and F are much less distinct than we construct in this theory.

 

[ThatGirl]

Thinkers have a natural curiosity towards feelers it is like a foreign language. They hear what a feeler says and see how a feeler reacts and it doesn't always make sense. Just as the way a thinker comes to a conclusion doesn't always make sense to an outsider. The difference is that it is easier to articulate the thought process than it is to back track the feeling process for someone else to understand. This leads feelers to frustration paving the way for the interpreted demonizing context.

 

[CzeCze]

I think Athenian hit a good point with the 'Gifts Differing' passage.

I had talked about this with another ENF and I made the observation that the INTPs I know are much more gripped by their emotions that I am. They tend to get stuck in internal loops figuring out their emotions (or trying to ignore them) and suddenly BAM, some kind of outburst or implosion occurs. And their emotional loops tend to focus more on 'negative' energy like fear, yearning, guilt, sadness, anger, worry, etc. and it really just brings them down. Much more than myself as an ENFP.

So that makes a lot of sense if you experience emotions in a very unpleasant or confusing way and it gets in the way of your primary thinking or coping function. Then you assume that other people who are 'emotional' i.e. 'feelers' are somehow weak or inferior for being 'controlled' by these crazy emotions.

Honestly for me, I don't take anti-F tirades seriously on the forum most of the time. I don't even really understand BlueWing's treatises 1/2 the time (I have nothing against the guy) and they work on a more higher-level function theorizing than I care to get into.

RE; anti-F rants -- I just assume the poster is probably young and licking their wounds from some unfortunate encounter they had with a more emotionally expressive person. And they are still learning to process and communicate their own emotions in an effective way.

Honestly, I have no ill will towards self-professed 'T's who rail against 'feelers'.

IRL, it's well-adjusted and balanced folks with well-developed social skills that have the easier time in life, are more effective and productive, capitalize more on opportunities, and I think are *able* to enjoy what life has to offer them to a greater extent.

It really behooves anyone who is extreme in their temperament and rails against others who are different from themselves to instead challenge themselves to grow and understand those who are different from them. It's really only going to help them out.

As far as this forum, people who hate 'feelers' have absolutely no bearing on me in my RL. I'm too busy being a happy productive feeler (with excellent Te!! LOL) to notice the haters.

 

[Domino]

When I see an anti-F rant, I take my revenge by knocking an NTP down on the ground and tearing their shirt off with my teeth.

Yeah. That'll learn 'em! Learn 'em good.

 

[ThatGirl]

When I see an anti-F rant, I take my revenge by knocking an NTP down on the ground and tearing their shirt off with my teeth.

Yeah. That'll learn 'em! Learn 'em good.

Sounds kinky

 

[runvardh]

Sounds kinky

She does that a lot

 

[Valiant]

We are afraid of their winding spirals of feeler "logic" Somehow it seems to make sense to feelers, but sometimes i'm very much in the dark about what the hell they are talking about when some try to apply what they call reason

 

[SquirrelTao]

Thinkers have a natural curiosity towards feelers it is like a foreign language. They hear what a feeler says and see how a feeler reacts and it doesn't always make sense. Just as the way a thinker comes to a conclusion doesn't always make sense to an outsider. The difference is that it is easier to articulate the thought process than it is to back track the feeling process for someone else to understand. This leads feelers to frustration paving the way for the interpreted demonizing context.

It's true it is easier to communicate conclusions and impressions and such that are arrived at via a relatively straightforward reasoning process. My thought processes are often all over the place, combining associations that branch out but also cognizant of the internal consistency of the whole. I do have trouble communicating sometimes. Then I find the more I think about it, often, the simpler I can finally make it.

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

When I see an anti-F rant, I take my revenge by knocking an NTP down on the ground and tearing their shirt off with my teeth.

Yeah. That'll learn 'em! Learn 'em good.

There will be at least one F that they like after that.

 

[Shadowrose]

I, actually, really enjoy F's. ^__^

 

[Domino]

Sounds kinky

Naaaah! Just a little love tap!

She does that a lot

I hear when kitties yawn and blink at their loved ones it's a sign of affection. And here I thought my tabby Peaches was just really really bored-tired.

There will be at least one F that they like after that.

Heh. They start it! Sometimes, just by being around! Jerks! All standing around! Bein' all NT and what ever! NTs and the standing around! All that mindin' their own business and stuff! Yeah, that's war, buddy! War!

We are afraid of their winding spirals of feeler "logic" Somehow it seems to make sense to feelers, but sometimes i'm very much in the dark about what the hell they are talking about when some try to apply what they call reason

I will confess - feeler logic has a veil of mystery even for those of us who use it. I can see how it would be scary or consternating to "outsiders".