[MBTI General] Why do INTJs spare INFPs their wrath?

[grey_beard]

Too much stress, mostly. He very occasionally does flip his silly switch and it comes out Se. Alcohol helps - though I'm unclear on whether the se causes the alcohol intake and then makes things even worse or if alcohol actually triggers it
Usually it'll be a day where he has nothing else to do, and its like the first day in weeks he has like that - he'll go completely childish on me and basically act out

He'll become loud and belligerent, piss off every waiter we get, and want to do the craziest things without a plan - so not used to that from him. They often turn into long dragged out physical activities with no end in sight and no goal which makes it...well, torturous for me and I have no way of knowing when it'll end. Suddenly he just *has* to see the city park. NO, it does not matter that it is cold and windy outside and that we've been wandering around forever, or lived here for 10 years and never have shown interest in the park before. Or, let's go explore the ugliest part of the city- the back alleys, and get completely lost. Yeah! And I'm like...so where is the fun in that? It's ugly, it is cold and raining, it is basically ugly houses on more ugly houses with shady looking characters and we have no clue where we're going or how long it'll take us to get back to my happy little nook in the wall where i'm safe from the world. Yeah - count me in.

It is kind of adorable to see him that way though and I wish I could relax more into it. I would - if he didn't include me in those crazy schemes and drag me along every time as well. No wait - that's a lie, my si would still worry all over the place since he really does go off the reservation when he gets that way

More restrained forms of it are when he has had a loooong day and goes on a idiotic youtube vids bender, or sings meme songs over and over again. It's sooooo not my type of humour and I cannot help but roll my eyes at it, which makes him go even nuttier.

[MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION]

Oh, why didn't you say so. Two completely different causes, with the same symptoms.

1) Boredom. The mighty INTJ brain needs consant meaningful stimulation. It can make do with intellectual junk food if it must -- for a time -- but then it has to discharge, either by silliness, getting drunk,
marathon video games, marathon sex, reading 300 pages of novel a day for several days running -- all of these are forms of "going on a bender".
2) Burnout. This can be emotional or (less likely) intellectual -- e.g. one has just finished a major marathon project at work, run past redline, or forced to navigate a long meaningless obstacle course of red tape; or breakup with a signifcant other. I don't *know* what's going on in this case but I surmise that some neurotransmitter or other (or maybe the generators of it) are burned out, or the binding sites saturated.
One has to do something totally the opposite in order to unstick the motor.

 

[grey_beard]

um what? please don't eat infps, we generally don't like being eaten, you know the whole dying part of being consumed orally

Off-color joke omitted in the interests of...


...wait for it

...


..."good taste"

(runs for exit, ducking for cover)

 

[prplchknz]

Off-color joke omitted in the interests of...


...wait for it

...


..."good taste"

(runs for exit, ducking for cover)

I can handle off color jokes, I even make them sometimes.

 

[grey_beard]

I can handle off color jokes, I even make them sometimes.

Do the off-colors include prpl?

 

[prplchknz]

Do the off-colors include prpl?

sometimes, but usually not.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Ugh...more talk of INFPs being balls of emotion who need someone else to think logically for them.

because if it bleeds, we can kill it

And then you will drown in the depths of our heart's blood. INFP wins!

Problem is they contain the deadly alkaloid colchicine .

See, INFP still wins.

 

[animenagai]

conclusion i've gotten from this thread, because *we* INFPs are fucking adorable to INTJs

Too bad you aren't one (according to yourself!).

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

And then you will drown in the depths of our heart's blood. INFP wins!

INFP blood can cure cancer.

 

[grey_beard]

Ugh...more talk of INFPs being balls of emotion who need someone else to think logically for them.

because if it bleeds, we can kill it

And then you will drown in the depths of our heart's blood. INFP wins!

Problem is they contain the deadly alkaloid colchicine .

See, INFP still wins.

A few sage editorial comments from my velveted paws (claws sheathed, thank you very much).

1) INFPs aren't JUST balls of emotion, and they don't need the INTJ to do the thinking for them; there's a subtle but IMPORTANT difference.

This is that the INFP is "liable to" (subject to, not "must" or "always will") get temporarily drowned in the flood of their own emotion, or to be so awed in contemplation of the beauty, horror, or quintessence of life (or some aspect of it which they're emotionally riveted to for the moment), or to be so caught up in the whirlwind chain of Ne free-association; or hammering out the last link in their gossamer internal-values chain-mail (hidden like mithril under their external facing fairy wings) to the point that they cannot effectively WIELD their Te for some particular period of time. The immovable intellect of the INTJ outer shell provides them something to grasp onto, to pull out of the raging current, catch their waterlogged breath, and start up their *own* Te motor, and join the real world -- whether in quest of goals, exuding vast quantities of magical healing rays to those in need, manifesting the rarely glimpsed but often hoped for "sunshine-n-silliness" (still mythical, in my own experience, but I haven't *quite* given up hope), or even (horror of horrors!) paying the bills or catching up on the dishes.

Until the INFP gets drained, and deliberately plunges into the torrent again to recharge...

As I wrote on another forum about INFPs,

And then, just when you think an INFP is a big fluffy ball of cotton candy, you discover that lurking underneath, is a mind of tempered steel, just as sharp, just as fast, and *almost* as relentless as your own.

No higher praise can be given.

2) INTJs don't drown. You might exsanguinate them, or force them to autocauterize, but they don't drown like mere mortals do. /exaggerated smug for theatrical effect>

3) Is the colchicine a by-product of chrysalis mode, or a necessary ingredient (poison to others but a feedstock to the "beauty from pain"?)

 

[prplchknz]

Too bad you aren't one (according to yourself!).

i never said that.

 

[Feline]

Running across an INFP is like finding a crocus in the snow.

Wow. That's a pretty photo. I've noticed that the INTJs I know enjoy my INFP company. It's mutual They can really crack me up. Good deadpan stuff. Deep people. Wiser than me. Also INTJs are vulnerable. So when you help them out with that in a non-threatening way, they are literally grateful. INTJs are the kind of people that give credit where credit is due, and in that sense, they strike me as respectful of others.

 

[Feline]

It's not forgiven because it is stylish. It is decreed to be forgiven because you are an INFP.

This is an example of the kind of humor I like in INTJs. I've been around other types who don't really see the humor. But very very often, INTJs will crack me up. When I do crack up, the INTJs seem pretty happy about it. That makes me happy.

 

[Feline]

A few sage editorial comments from my velveted paws (claws sheathed, thank you very much).

Oh this thread is so old! Wish I had been around at the time. I like your metaphorical language very much.

 

[Galena]

Suddenly he just *has* to see the city park. NO, it does not matter that it is cold and windy outside and that we've been wandering around forever, or lived here for 10 years and never have shown interest in the park before. Or, let's go explore the ugliest part of the city- the back alleys, and get completely lost. Yeah! And I'm like...so where is the fun in that? It's ugly, it is cold and raining, it is basically ugly houses on more ugly houses with shady looking characters and we have no clue where we're going or how long it'll take us to get back to my happy little nook in the wall where i'm safe from the world. Yeah - count me in.

As an inferior Se user, this is exactly the way it happens. Just had an aimless excursion like this today, in fact - just to see things. I keep it to myself, mostly, although the itch to share it with someone else rises to unbearable heights. For better or worse, though, I don't have anyone to accompany me. When I was in a really bad place once stress-wise, I'd take pictures of curiosities I found and shared them, but then became embarrassed of it and stopped.

 

[INTP]

This is more accurately titled "Three Questions About INTJs and INFPs," but if it's stylish, it's forgiven, amirite? (I know. "No.")

So. First. Why are the INFP's frequent lapses in logic and extreme over-tenderness given a pass (or even found endearing) when most other types aren't given that compliment (those poor ESFJs-oh, you're merciless to them!)? Is it the ease with which we change our minds while thinking out loud? Because your feuds with INTPs are legendary, and INFJs don't usually talk about deep subjects until they've already formed firm opinions.

Second, do you find our shameless sharing of shy-person-feelings to be tranquilizing when you're stressed? I know that an INTJ's calm, succinct stating of facts has calmed me immediately when I've been seriously worked up over stuff (you certainly calm things down over on the NF board).

And third, has it been your experience that INTJs and INFPs share an intelligent but offensive sense of humor?

Oh! Fourth and final. Has an INFP ever come to your defense? Usually it's you guys protecting us (and I know the INTJs in my life sometimes find it trying), but when my INTJ friends are off balance and attacked, I go into a Gohan rage that I'd otherwise be waaay too shy and inhibited to express.

My two best friends are INFP and INTJ, they are also roommates. When it comes to logic between them, it usually comes up when the INFP does something wrong and INTJ puts him down for it, using logic and reason as an aid for this, which he knows the INFP cant defend against. Usually the INFP tries to dodge as much of the logic based debates i have with the INTJ, he just cant handle the arguing at all, also he cant stand his ground when being argued against.. The INTJ knows that if he is strict and non flexible enough with him, he can control the INFP like a dog, a dog that sometimes spills coffee on the walls and stuff like that, which gives the INTJ a chance to display his dominance again.

Their humor is a bit different most the times, the INFP is really good at word play and stuff like that, which is what the INFP is really intelligent about, the INTJ is not good at it at all. Both of them on the other hand are good at N type of humor, but the INFP shines on it more cuz Ne is faster than Ni and creates more possibilities and does so more readily. The INFP and i are on the same level on Ne stuff and the INTJ can throw some stuff here and there if we are N-joking around in a group, but for me and INFP its constant throwing stuff around, which usually ends up with some really weird/funny stuff, for the INTJ and this sort of N stuff is more like im throwing stuff constantly and him maybe making some comment here and there and maybe continuing on my stuff at times. And yes, all of ours humor can be pretty dark(to put it lightly) at times(mine maybe the most, followed by the INTJ), no subject is serious enough for jokes

This sort of type-type stuff depends on the persons as much as it depends on the type imo.

 

[freeeekyyy]

Because INFPs (and ENFPs, maybe even moreso) are sensitive, and at least speaking for myself, I don't want to hurt them. The reason I might seem more willing with other types is because I don't see their weakness. Even though it may not be apparent, I don't like hurting others, and with FPs of all types, there's just this communication that's provided, where you can tell more easily when you're causing damage. I'd rather not destroy, even if I may clumsily do so quite often, with zero awareness.

 

[Coriolis]

Wow. That's a pretty photo. I've noticed that the INTJs I know enjoy my INFP company. It's mutual They can really crack me up. Good deadpan stuff. Deep people. Wiser than me. Also INTJs are vulnerable. So when you help them out with that in a non-threatening way, they are literally grateful. INTJs are the kind of people that give credit where credit is due, and in that sense, they strike me as respectful of others.

I think we feel more respect for others than they often credit us with, largely because we express it in ways they are not used to, and perhaps find unpleasant.

 

[Feline]

I think we feel more respect for others than they often credit us with, largely because we express it in ways they are not used to, and perhaps find unpleasant.

How you put it is how I imagine it. I grew up with an INTJ. So since I know him so well, I really know, deep down, the kind of respect he has for others. I've met other INTJs and seen something similar in them. Expressing what is inside is not that easy for me so I relate to your difficulty.

 

[olias]

I think the positive aspects of INFP/INTJ dynamic has been covered, so allow me to speak to the negative side (re: why INTJ's go easy on INFP's):

First, when the INFP goes bad, they go bad in a big, chaotic, out of control way. We're both overwhelmed by the sheer energy and have no idea WHERE to begin addressing the nonsense coming out of their mouths in the moment (much less try to make sense of it). As I like to say about my INFP mother: There ain't no reasoning with crazy. All you can do is walk away.

Second, the INFP is just kind of an easy target. Breaking out the rhetorical and critical knives to really take it to the INFP verbally feels like beating up the disabled kid at school. I mean, sure, you could do it, but what's the point?


Third, when an INFP goes bad, we frankly just stop caring. INFP's are *so clearly* ranting like a mentally ill homeless person with a persecution complex that taking the time to 1) listen, 2) understand, 3) formulate an angle of verbal assault that's creatively satisfying and wounding by virtue of it's insight, and 4) deliver to the intended target . . . well it's just not a good value when we do the cost/benefit analysis.

Lastly, among the factors that would drive an INTJ to interact are respect and curiosity. In terms of curiosity, see the first point. It seems pretty clear there's no one at the wheel when the INFP goes off the rails. As for respect, the shit INFP's say (and do) demonstrates a pretty repulsive lack of self control, discipline, intellectual vigor, or emotional resilience. Freaked out INFP's inspire contempt in the INTJ, not the frustrated anger or self righteous sense of duty needed to get the INTJ motivated.

Why do we go after the other types? A number of different (but not necessarily mutually exclusive) reasons. Sometimes someone is just wrong, and they need to be fixed. Because we're basically optimists at heart, unless you're functionally mentally ill, we will take on the task of fixing you and your wrong headedness.

We may go after you because we respect you, and it drives us UP THE WALL to see you be so wrong. We expect better of you! Therefore I will instruct you in the way you should go/think, and hope are wise and accept the correction.

We may go after you because we're curious, and we want to see what else you have to contribute that might be of use to our learning.

Lastly, we may go after you because you're provoking the shit out of us, and you won't back off. You said something, and we calmly told you that you were wrong and explained why. You got louder, and we decided it was worth raising our voice. Then you got really loud and belligerant, and we decided you weren't in a state to understand what we're trying to tell you any more so we shut up and withdrew. You were out of control at this point, so you pursued instead of taking the hint, and continued to attack. When we finally got sick of biting our tongue for your sake, we hit back with the intent to shut you up and get you out of our face so we can have some peace.

Also, there's always just good old shadow dynamics and projection.

 

[Feline]

It seems pretty clear there's no one at the wheel when the INFP goes off the rails.

Cringing at this behavior. I've had some episodes like that and well.... I wish my inferior episodes somehow only flew inward so that the utter misery were private and people were not affected. The embarrassment after the fact is often as bad as the misery during. The unconscious element is very uncomfortable. Not sure what INFPs do to improve, but I've had to make this crap more conscious by making an effort not to identify with nice so much. It's really bad when you are so self-unaware that you blow up and are blindsided by your own projections. Even if I got this under control, you can never fully see yourself as others see you. There is that sliver of blindness that I guess is always there.



It's kind of interesting that some types have inferior episodes that don't involve others as obviously (although they still do).

I think INTP is another type whose inferior episodes really affect others and are highly obvious.

Human minds are really messed up in a way. I've seen one inferior episode in one person trigger several inferior episodes in others all at once. Everyone gets derailed and afterwards everyone feels vulnerable.