[ISTP] Why are words considered a luxury to the ISTP?

[Evo]

That's interesting. I'm also surprised you lasted that long!

My closest friend from college is an ESFP, and the way we bonded 75% of the time was shared experiences. They're actually the strongest bonders for me. Mostly because it makes them last. Talking bonding stand alone doesn't do enough, it fades fast because I am not actually doing something with the person. That said, shared experiences alone is not enough. There's got to be a lot of communication, or shared emotion/struggles in order for it be anything. My ESFP and I bonded mostly over skiing. We went all the time together. However, when we went, we were always talking, shooting the shit, joking around, starting games with each other, having "oh shit we almost went off a cliff" moments. I've gone skiing with others before and it was mostly just skiing with each other. One guy in particular got a lot out of it and seemed to start to bond to me from what I could tell, but I didn't at all. I was just bored and someone stressed by it (not sure of his type).

If my ESFP friend and I weren't doing something, she'd get bored quickly. That's actually big reason why I love her so much, she's an initatior of action (and I need someone to do that), and I mostly keep up, and I am an initator of communication (and she needs someone to do that), and she mostly keeps up. Perfect bond really.

Though I think a difference between us though is I am way more attracted to extroverts in friends and relationships. Introverts tend to be more of a strain for me. The point is, I think for someone shared experiences might be enough, or talking alone might be enough. For others, you need a mix of things

I agree!

Yes! ESFP's! So easy to bond with! They bring a mix of experiencing and talking that can make faster and deeper bonds. I don't know one ESFP that I don't get along with great irl actually

I wish I was attracted to extroverts

I have actually been trying to figure out what I want out of a relationship more recently

In an intimate relationship I want someone that I can chase, but also someone that gives feedback.

 

[yeghor]

Because what you're suggesting is wrong, based off stereotypes. You made a claim, without supporting it. You just said "it's my Ni". That doesn't make it right. Yours, and anyones intuition can be used as leads, but it can NOT be used as a fact or basis without some kind of support.

If you were joking around, I am sorry for misunderstanding, but by your tone I assumed you are/were being serious with this, hence I took it as such.

It's not a fact...just a hunch...I believe a high Se indicates an abundance of testosterone hormone in the body...hence the athletic build, promiscuity, aggressiveness, thrill-seeking and impulsiveness observed in those with high Se (including women)... That physiology gives them the ability to attune with and manipulate the Se layer of the physical environment...

Those in high Ne OTOH may have for instance an attunement with and ability to manipulate the outcome of events...i.e. the Ne layer...

Those strong in Fe OTOH may have relatively less amounts of testosterone, thereby may be lacking in the aforementioned traits...which compels them to depend on each other, and act in groups as a society to survive...

In nature, the former traits are observed in predators\carnivores (which may form packs as well sometimes but I guess the pack mentality comes from Fi-aux or tert) whereas the latter is observed in herd animals\herbivores...

Based on all these "assumptions", a high level of testosterone would result in a muscular\strong body, which would require a constant intake of (meat-based) protein to sustain...

There's plenty of data available to that end in bodybuilding diets etc...

In the end, this would imply that Fe = herd instinct... Fi= pack instinct... Se=predator instinct... Of course our conscious self may opt to go against the primitive instincts...to a certain extent...

 

[yeghor]

...

I have actually been trying to figure out what I want out of a relationship more recently

In an intimate relationship I want someone that I can chase, but also someone that gives feedback.

 

[á´…eparted]

It's not a fact...just a hunch...I believe a high Se indicates an abundance of testosterone hormone in the body...hence the athletic build, promiscuity, aggressiveness, thrill-seeking and impulsiveness observed in those with high Se (including women)... That physiology gives them the ability to attune with and manipulate the Se layer of the physical environment...

Those in high Ne OTOH may have for instance an attunement with and ability to manipulate the outcome of events...i.e. the Ne layer...

Those strong in Fe OTOH may have relatively less amounts of testosterone, thereby may be lacking in the aforementioned traits...which compels them to depend on each other, and act in groups as a society to survive...

In nature, the former traits are observed in predators\carnivores (which may form packs as well sometimes but I guess the pack mentality comes from Fi-aux or tert) whereas the latter is observed in herd animals\herbivores...

Based on all these "assumptions", a high level of testosterone would result in a muscular\strong body, which would require a constant intake of (meat-based) protein to sustain...

There's plenty of data available to that end in bodybuilding diets etc...

In the end, this would imply that Fe = herd instinct... Fi= pack instinct... Se=predator instinct... Of course our conscious self may opt to go against the primitive instincts...to a certain extent...

I am going to quote one particular part:

I believe a high Se indicates an abundance of testosterone hormone in the body

You said it yourself. This is a belief, which is NO different from a hunch, in ways of making a claim. It is not a fact, and nothing more than speculation. You don't have anything to back this up other than personal opinion. I don't agree with it, and since you are the one claiming it, you bear the burden of proof and must fulfill this duty for a discussion to go forward, or be taken seriously. This has yet to be seen.

The entire post you have made is nothing more than speculation off your own opinion. What you're claiming, additionally, is really lofty. A measurable tangible biological basis of a function? I have serious doubts anything like this exists to reference. Additionally, the vast majority of this IS stereotypical of Se (and other functions), which is well regarded to not be reliable. All this put together, this makes all of this akin to psychobalbble, and should not be taken seriously. That is, unless you back it up, with evidence. To be perfectly honest, I am not aware of any such evidence to support this, and I doubt it exists either.

Again, this is all stereotypical, unsupported, and can't be taken seriously until you use something to support it.

Speculation it may be, but I am telling you that it's wrong based on the fact that there isn't anything to back this up. Hence, the speculation should be retracted as wrong. To not do so is horribly intellectually dishonest and in a way shameful.

 

[yeghor]

I am going to quote one particular part:

You said it yourself. This is a belief, which is NO different from a hunch, in ways of making a claim. It is not a fact, and nothing more than speculation. You don't have anything to back this up other than personal opinion. I don't agree with it, and since you are the one claiming it, you bear the burden of proof and must fulfill this duty for a discussion to go forward, or be taken seriously. This has yet to be seen.

The entire post you have made is nothing more than speculation off your own opinion. What you're claiming, additionally, is really lofty. A measurable tangible biological basis of a function? I have serious doubts anything like this exists to reference. Additionally, the vast majority of this IS stereotypical of Se (and other functions), which is well regarded to not be reliable. All this put together, this makes all of this akin to psychobalbble, and should not be taken seriously. That is, unless you back it up, with evidence. To be perfectly honest, I am not aware of any such evidence to support this, and I doubt it exists either.

Again, this is all stereotypical, unsupported, and can't be taken seriously until you use something to support it.

Speculation it may be, but I am telling you that it's wrong based on the fact that there isn't anything to back this up. Hence, the speculation should be retracted as wrong. To not do so is horribly intellectually dishonest and in a way shameful.

No, speculations (hunches) should be discussed, investigated...they may turn out to be wrong though...

N is all about asking "what if" and saying "let's assume..." and then developing the discussion from that point... It is about starting from hunches (a priori, "assumed to be true" information) whereas T is about starting from known data (a posteriori, "known to be true" information)...

You are asking me to provide you Te data, which I do not (have the means) to have... You can OTOH assume my assumptions to be correct and then work from there to check whether or not it fits with Te...

This "may" also mean that you are T-dom, probably an ESTJ... cause ENTJ's Ni would be willing to discuss these assumptions...for a while at least...

In the end, they are just my speculations\assumptions but I will not retract them if that's what you are asking me... perhaps, in future I'll come along with more data verifying\falsifying them, which I'll certainly share...

 

[á´…eparted]

No, speculations (hunches) should be discussed, investigated...they may turn out to be wrong though...

N is all about asking "what if" and saying "let's assume..." and then developing the discussion from that point... It is about starting from hunches (a priori, "assumed to be true" information) whereas T is about starting from known data (a posteriori, "known to be true" information)...

You are asking me to provide you Te data, which I do not (have the means) to have... You can OTOH assume my assumptions to be correct and then work from there to check whether or not it fits with Te...

This "may" also mean that you are T-dom, probably an ESTJ... cause ENTJ's Ni would be willing to discuss these assumptions...for a while at least...

In the end, they are just my speculations\assumptions but I will not retract them if that's what you are asking me... perhaps, in future I'll come along with more data verifying\falsifying them, which I'll certainly share...

Yes, discussing is fine, but I have since told you that it should be disregarded, as I see it as wrong, and you can't seem to support it. I don't take it seriously, and no one else but you will either.

What you are claming does requite strong support, because it is a loftly claim. The type of evidence I am asking for has absolutely nothing at all to do with functions. Calling it "Te evidence" is asinine.

So, you want to hold onto something despite being shown that it's highly likely that it's not correct? Wow. "This evidence is bad, but I want to keep it anyway, just because". That's actually pretty intellectually bad and really shows a lack of clear thinking in regards to understanding things around you.

Also, I am NOT a Te dom. I repeat, I. AM. NOT. This is wrong. This is the second time you have done this (unpromoted!), and I already told you last time this is not the case. I do not know how I can possibly make it more clear, in no uncertain terms. The fact that you are trying to label me as a Te dom off of this post alone, based off nothing more than stereotypes, really shows your severe lack of understanding for what the functions are. Maybe if you had a clearer understanding of the functions I might consider your analysis more. But, quite frankly, your analysis of this and me is terrible. There's also a curious trend I and others have been noticing, that you seem to type someone else as different after the express disagreement with your thoughts. This makes you look really bad, and it's probably a good idea to reconsider your motivations for wanting to do so. You also seem to be failing to notice that typing people unsolicited usually blows up in the typers face for a variety of reasons.

So I am going to say this here clearly: DO NOT attempt to type me again unless I ask. It's annoying, your analysis are bad, I did not ask for it, and it spreads misinformation.

 

[badger055]

we dated for 2 YEARS! I still feel like I barely know him.

hahaha

yea...

 

[yeghor]

Yes, discussing is fine, but I have since told you that it should be disregarded, as I see it as wrong, and you can't seem to support it. I don't take it seriously, and no one else but you will either.

What you are claming does requite strong support, because it is a loftly claim. The type of evidence I am asking for has absolutely nothing at all to do with functions. Calling it "Te evidence" is asinine.

So, you want to hold onto something despite being shown that it's highly likely that it's not correct? Wow. "This evidence is bad, but I want to keep it anyway, just because". That's actually pretty intellectually bad and really shows a lack of clear thinking in regards to understanding things around you.

Also, I am NOT a Te dom. I repeat, I. AM. NOT. This is wrong. This is the second time you have done this (unpromoted!), and I already told you last time this is not the case. I do not know how I can possibly make it more clear, in no uncertain terms. The fact that you are trying to label me as a Te dom off of this post alone, based off nothing more than stereotypes, really shows your severe lack of understanding for what the functions are. Maybe if you had a clearer understanding of the functions I might consider your analysis more. But, quite frankly, your analysis of this and me is terrible. There's also a curious trend I and others have been noticing, that you seem to type someone else as different after the express disagreement with your thoughts. This makes you look really bad, and it's probably a good idea to reconsider your motivations for wanting to do so. You also seem to be failing to notice that typing people unsolicited usually blows up in the typers face for a variety of reasons.

So I am going to say this here clearly: DO NOT attempt to type me again unless I ask. It's annoying, your analysis are bad, I did not ask for it, and it spreads misinformation.

It's because brushing off ideas is not something I'd expect from an N-person... they'd rather elaborate on it or provide counter-arguments... And I just can't stop noticing it...

The bolded part sounds like you are trying to appeal to the public or something else rather than to me...

And relax... It's not that I called you silly, stupid or something else...

 

[á´…eparted]

It's because brushing off ideas is not something I'd expect from an N-person... they'd rather elaborate on it or provide counter-arguments... And I just can't stop noticing it...

The bolded part sounds like you are trying to appeal to the public or something else rather than to me...

And relax... It's not that I called you silly, stupid or something else...

AHHHH!! Did you not read what I JUST said? I told you stop and you flagrantly disregarded it. I did not ask your analysis, I did not ask for your reasoning. I asked for you to S.T.O.P.

Don't apologize, don't explain, don't quote this, just stop please.

EDIT: Sorry, I overreacted. But seriously, please just stop. You piss me off with this kind of stuff and I want to not be poked with it, and I do not want to have to waste energy explaining myself to you either. I dismissed the discussion several times, and that should be good enough for you.

 

[entropie]

It's because we are introverted thinkers, and secondarily, extraverted sensors. So, we prefer to not communicate our thoughts, and instead focus on our environment. By asking them a question, you are forcing them to set both of those tendencies aside. This is exemplified with our Ni, and our irritation shows more because of our Fe.

Plus if you are a strong extravert, then they probably just dislike you to begin with. No offense.

I dodnt know this sounds very N to me, I will have an eye on you

 

[Dragonfly]

In fact, I find that when I ask them questions, they almost look at me with a look of scorn on their face because I am forcing them to communicate..

It's because we are introverted thinkers, and secondarily, extraverted sensors. So, we prefer to not communicate our thoughts, and instead focus on our environment. By asking them a question, you are forcing them to set both of those tendencies aside. This is exemplified with our Ni, and our irritation shows more because of our Fe.

Plus if you are a strong extravert, then they probably just dislike you to begin with. No offense.

 

[Dragonfly]

Why would they need words when they can just punch a guy in the nose and draw symbols with his blood to convey their thoughts?

Yeah anyway, now that you mention it that is my primary method of communication, how did you know?

But seriously, I text my one friend in my free time more than i talk to him in school, and we have almost every class, as well as our lunch period together.

 

[entropie]

Yeah anyway, now that you mention it that is my primary method of communication, how did you know?

But seriously, I text my one friend in my free time more than i talk to him in school, and we have almost every class, as well as our lunch period together.

Are you pee buddies aswell ?

 

[Dragonfly]

It's not a fact...just a hunch...I believe a high Se indicates an abundance of testosterone hormone in the body...hence the athletic build, promiscuity, aggressiveness, thrill-seeking and impulsiveness observed in those with high Se (including women)... That physiology gives them the ability to attune with and manipulate the Se layer of the physical environment...
.

Hmmm, perhaps because Sensors, in general, tend to work out more you might, MIGHT, have a point. Also, i noticed that my sensing developed from only a slight preference to a very strong one since I started working out a few weeks ago. Mabey that gives some plausibility to your idea?

 

[yeghor]

Hmmm, perhaps because Sensors, in general, tend to work out more you might, MIGHT, have a point. Also, i noticed that my sensing developed from only a slight preference to a very strong one since I started working out a few weeks ago. Mabey that gives some plausibility to your idea?

Yes, perhaps it may signify a relatively larger room\potential for growth in that area when\if consciously trained... I've been working out for more than 1.5 years doing primary lifts like deadlift, squat, bench, military press etc...I've gotten much stronger than I was but my muscle size has not exploded like that of an ectomorph mesomorph person...

However, this should theoretically mean that being an Se-inf, I should have some potential to develop that niche... How would this work for people who don't have Se in their first 4 functions stack I wonder?

 

[jixmixfix]

I mean, I am the inverse type of you, so it's no surprise that this feels kind of alien to me. I totally am on board with most communication being nonverbal but without words, I see it as inconsistent and hard to read. Further, a lot of the time it's a strain to read. I'll do it (I have to) but without words to go along with things, it's like eating a cake with no flour; an important piece is missing.

Non verbal ques are more important than verbal overall doesn't matter what type you are. On another note I dated an ENFJ and she always wanted me to express how I felt about everything it drove me bananas. At the same time what drove her nuts was constantly trying to figure out what I was thinking. So there seems to be some kind of clash between the two types in that regard.

What do you learn of a person through stuff like a massage? I might be able to pick up a few things, but not much. TBH, people like this actually make me uncomfortable (well, they can anyway). Not that that's a bad thing, it just triggers a stress response cause I don't get it.

You don't learn anything really, I just wanted to express my natural talents.

 

[The Great One]

If it's any consolation, I'm gay and don't give a shit .

It's the context that matters. The vast majority of the time it's not meant to harm anyone.

Wow that's funny, so the Fe dom doesn't care if you use the word, but the Fe aux does. That's funny.

I don't usually do that unless you have caught my attention in a bad way. That's when my killer instinct comes out. Otherwise I usually avoid eye contact. I think that might be more common with 8s?

So what should I do when an ISTP gives me this stare down? Is this like some type of test or something that they are giving me?
[MENTION=14015]Urarienev[/MENTION]

I have had the same experience with ISTP's in particular as well.

Their Ti just doesn't want to waste time on the unnecessary.

Also, if you are asking them questions, they can feel some sort of "pressure" to rebel or resist against it. The thinking being, that the person posing the question, is trying to take an authoritative stance...They don't like to be controlled. (This is from what I've gathered.)

Well you are also a thinking dom, and a Te dom at that. Do you view conversation as a meaningless waste of time?

It took me a long time to figure out why my gay friends didn't like that word being used that way. (They could not convince me with one solid reason not to be able to say what I wanted...)

But the thing is that it's being used to replace the word "weak" if you boil it down.

And why is being weak so bad? It's because then you would be perceived to take on qualities of females. It's like a double whammy. It's attacking gay people cause they're feminine (and god forbid. Nothing's worse than a guy being feminine. (obviously joking)) And it's attacking females cause they're seen as the weakest gender.

That's just the thought process behind it...don't know if it matters.

Anyways I think "lame" is a much better fit.

Well I don't know if the word gay is replacing the word lame. I think that gay is replacing the word effeminate if you ask me. However, you still raise an excellent point.

 

[The Great One]

It's because we are introverted thinkers, and secondarily, extraverted sensors. So, we prefer to not communicate our thoughts, and instead focus on our environment. By asking them a question, you are forcing them to set both of those tendencies aside. This is exemplified with our Ni, and our irritation shows more because of our Fe.

Plus if you are a strong extravert, then they probably just dislike you to begin with. No offense.

The only way that I can generally get an ISTP to like me is through my sick and twisted sense of humor. They generally like that, but hate everything else about.

 

[badger055]

So what should I do when an ISTP gives me this stare down? Is this like some type of test or something that they are giving me?

They are probably reading you and yea it might be a test. I don't know what can you do? He's just looking at you. Try not to care I guess and just do whatever it is you were doing.

 

[Evo]

So what should I do when an ISTP gives me this stare down? Is this like some type of test or something that they are giving me?

I know this wasn't directed towards me, but I find this really funny.

I actually wonder what the stare down would feel like if I were a guy. But since I'm not, and I only know male ISTP's, I always took the stare down as like a sexual kinda thing or something. Funny

Well you are also a thinking dom, and a Te dom at that. Do you view conversation as a meaningless waste of time?

I would say that it is not a waste of time. But there's a catch. There can't be small talk. And it has to be with someone that is up to speed with what I'm saying. I am quite impatient when people don't even try to understand what I'm saying.

I find that A LOT of what is said at my job...is small talk. Which is tedious and yes, it's a meaningless waste of time. I like to get right into the subject, and not tip toe around all the empty body language, or the phrases that people have to use just to get the real heart of a matter.

So the repetitive requirements of some of the socializing that takes place between people annoys me.

Well I don't know if the word gay is replacing the word lame. I think that gay is replacing the word effeminate if you ask me. However, you still raise an excellent point.

Yea, it was really bad when my freind just kept wanting me to stop saying that, and I would still ask him "why." He's an ISFJ and he was only explaining the way it feels not the concept and thought process behind it. I'm glad I can finally understand why people like others to politically correct now though.