Why are Americans so FAKE?

[Kullervo]

Building on the picture painted of America by Alexis de Tocqueville in 1835, we see America was founded under the Royal Ascendancy, while Oz was settled after 100 years of peaceful Aristocratic Ascendancy.

So Americans have inherited and democratised Royal values, while we have inherited and democratised Aristocratic values. So every American is a little King or Queen, while every Australian is a little Aristocrat.

The Aristocratic values we have inherited are a love of the outdoors, brutality in sport and manners, peaceful resolution of conflict, and a jealousy of anyone seeking to become King, so we ruthlessly cut down tall poppies, and with rat cunning we keep the King weak and powerless.

By contrast Royal Americans encourage and value those who rise above their fellows and celebrate them, turning them into celebrities, and Americans are extraordinarily polite, and seek to settle things with a gun.

So we are Aristocrats who keep a weak and powerless King, while Americans stole the power of their King, and gave it to each American. Americans believe in Royal power so much, their paranoia led them to commit Royal patricide so they themselves could be Royal.

Australian culture stems from the experiences working-class convicts and Irish miners had adapting to the open, wild and sometimes bizarre expanse which is Australia. When I think of Aussies, I imagine the archetypal "g'day mate" and a bromantic VB-drinking Sydney banker. Australia to me has a stock character which isn't too dissimilar to that you'd assign to America, especially its West. There is nothing aristocratic about either group's culture, and if anything, they created the polar opposite of an aristocratic society where even the wealthy still identify as nomadic strongmen and talk in a blokey way.

There is a minority element of liberals in Melbourne and Canberra which is contemptuous of the above. These people have an inferiority complex about their heritage and try to identify with European things as a result. You live in a bubble, Victor, away from most of your countrymen. I dislike watching you give off false impressions to people who don't know anything about Aussies and their history.

 

[Mole]

This is extremely interesting, the post you made about Royals seemed pretty common sensical, but this aspect about deference is a great insight.

Thank you for your compliment.

And it is ironic that Americans don't see themselves as Royalists, indeed quite the opposite. But the celebrity culture in America finds its origins in Royalty, and in democratised Royal values.

And when we try to explain to Americans why we all, except for one small territory, voted to keep our Queen Elizabeth II in 1999, we say, well, our Royalty is like your celebrity. And Americans seem to understand this.

 

[Mole]

Australian culture stems from the experiences working-class convicts and Irish miners had adapting to the open, wild and sometimes bizarre expanse which is Australia. When I think of Aussies, I imagine the archetypal "g'day mate" and a bromantic VB-drinking Sydney banker. Australia to me has a stock character which isn't too dissimilar to that you'd assign to America, especially its West. There is nothing aristocratic about either group's culture, and if anything, they created the polar opposite of an aristocratic society where even the wealthy still identify as nomadic strongmen and talk in a blokey way.

There is a minority element of liberals in Melbourne and Canberra which is contemptuous of the above. These people have an inferiority complex about their heritage and try to identify with European things as a result. You live in a bubble, Victor, away from most of your countrymen. I dislike watching you give off false impressions to people who don't know anything about Aussies and their history.

It is not surprising American popular culture has a superficial view of Australia.

To have a deeper look at Australian culture a good place to start is Australian history. You might like to start with Professor Claudio Veliz, of Boston University, and his book, The New World of The Gothic Fox.

To give you a taste, here is Professor Claudio Veliz, Professor of History and Director of the University Professors at Boston University -

Australia is the first nation in modern history to secure full unification without killing anyone; Australia is the first major nation on earth to have achieved independence and sovereignty without killing anyone; Australia is the first nation in modern history to appoint a Jew as commander-in-chief of its armed forces; Australia is the first nation in the English-speaking world to have elected a Labor government led by a Labor prime minister; the first native-born governor-general of Australia was a Jew; and Australia, of course, is the only continent on Earth never to have been shamed by the institution of slavery.

Considering you depend upon us in the Southern Hemisphere, bound to us by Intelligence, Military, Economic, and Land Treaties, it is in your national interest to familiarise yourself with our thriving culture.

Already we have too many routine misunderstandings, and just as we study American culture in depth, we expect you to pay us the same compliment.

 

[Thalassa]

Thank you for your compliment.

And it is ironic that Americans don't see themselves as Royalists, indeed quite the opposite. But the celebrity culture in America finds its origins in Royalty, and in democratised Royal values.

And when we try to explain to Americans why we all, except for one small territory, voted to keep our Queen Elizabeth II in 1999, we say, well, our Royalty is like your celebrity. And Americans seem to understand this.

Yeah I understand that Americans are Royalists, as you put it, because they scream treason at the South for trying to suceede...which is what they did to Britain less than 100 years prior, and had this weird moral superior attitude towards the South even though at the time of the Revolution and leading up to it, "the Union" also practiced slavery and committed genocide. There have been American corporations caught in recent decades still enslaving people in foreign lands, just indirectly through resource farming, or through sweat shop conditions. There's still the Imperialist Royal attitude that is so hypocritical it's shocking.

And, like you said, the way certain individuals are praised for hoarding wealth, or even stepping on one's fellows, seems like a pretty direct mirror of royalty, and I find it baffling that the people who claim to most hate government are the same people who worship these corporate leaders or celebrities the most.

Also from what I understand a lot of criminals were sent to Australia while religious fanatics took over the US.

 

[Dr Mobius]

Russians are still recovering from the nightmare of communism, they are resultantly a lower trust society, even amongst strangers very similar to themselves.

I've always found that interesting; on one hand I understand the distrust of neighbours given the KGB's bizarre level of internal spying. But the government was just as culpable for it, and seems to have achieved far less stigma for it.

During my brief time in Russia years ago, one thing that struck me is that people - including college students and other young people - appreciated the value of real conversation. Conversation with depth, beyond the pleasantries.

Out of genuine curiosity it wouldn't happened to have been during the 90's; pre 98 crash? A while ago I watched a documentary of a fellow going through Russia on a motorcycle. I remember him commenting on how Russia had changed, the hopeful curiosity swept beneath a tide of nationalism.

If I can comment.

Since I am comming from Eastern European country I will dare to say this is mostly the consequence of our education systems. USA from what I see is mostly about educating for specific jobs, while here education is trying to give one deeper sense of understanding the reality. We have the term "basic culture" that is made of quite a number of facts and models and everyone should know those. Also as the education is much more socialized the smarter people get direct state sponsorship in education so that they can become hardcore experts in a topic or few of them. What allows many people to much more easily develop their intellect than in USA. Where you often can't educate yourself without side job that takes plenty of time or help of private businesses that will want something in return.

I'm going to comment on this; even though I think there isn't a way to do it without being condescending. The difference in education systems isn't indicative of quality or style; it's a measure of economic realities. You're Croatian correct? The fact that your education is so general tells us that your economy isn't particularly developed. Think of it as building a house; now to build a single story house is feasible for one person. I try to build a hundred story house, and the amount of variables needed for me to understand and deal with grow exponentially. The more our technology grows, the more we change the way we live, the more specialised people have to become.

As a fellow outsider I also enjoy getting one over the Americans, but come on. The sheer quantity of them dominating every field imaginable tells you they're not doing it completely wrong. Also patriotism masked as sweeping generalisations...... interesting don't often see that on a non American.

[MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION], and [MENTION=9811]Coriolis[/MENTION], perfectly stated my opinion. My hatred is towards the schooling system of creating sheep that need to mingle with one another instead of a creating a system that allows for independence, and creativity. Choosing who you want to talk to is where it's at as Bill Hicks once joked, someone asked me "It takes twice as much energy not to smile" I responded with "it takes twice as much energy to tell me that then to leave me alone", something like that. It's a personal preference.

Seriously you prop up Russia as source of honesty/intellectualism, and attack the American school system. I take it you have little to no idea how the school system works over there? The Russian system is essentially rote learning, there is almost no emphasis on why. (In other words creative problem solving skills.) Only on having the correct answer; a mile wide and an inch deep.


***

As to the thread. I was once told as a child that if you acted kind long enough it stopped being an act, and started to be real. Consider which countries possess this polite veneer of civility......... why it seems to encompass most of the western world. Imagine if this pretension to civilisation had a hand in pushing social progression, if it helped move us away from accepting various forms of barbarism. All for the small cost of having to smile and make polite conversation every once in awhile. Ah but there I go again with my crazy crazy ideas.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I'm going to comment on this; even though I think there isn't a way to do it without being condescending. The difference in education systems isn't indicative of quality or style; it's a measure of economic realities. You're Croatian correct? The fact that your education is so general tells us that your economy isn't particularly developed. Think of it as building a house; now to build a single story house is feasible for one person. I try to build a hundred story house, and the amount of variables needed for me to understand and deal with grow exponentially. The more our technology grows, the more we change the way we live, the more specialised people have to become.

As a fellow outsider I also enjoy getting one over the Americans, but come on. The sheer quantity of them dominating every field imaginable tells you they're not doing it completely wrong. Also patriotism masked as sweeping generalisations...... interesting don't often see that on a non American.

What I was trying to say is that traditionally our education seems to provide better foundation than general American education which is very job oriented. However once that level is done we try to specialize people as well.

Regarding economy: our economy is much weaker than it realistically should be. What is because we lost independace in 1102 and didn't regain it all the way until 1991. Plus in the 20th century the country was devastated 3 times in wars due to the outside reasons, what was a terrible problem creator over the last century. Also western countries are accepting Croats because of their skills for quite some time. (from scientists to construction workers) What is extra pronounced since the Croats were running from the "Twilight zone" into which their country has turned into, what was basically exactly because we are constantly losing the more competent people. Actually today you have more Croats and their childern outside of Croatia than in Croatia itself. Therefore since Americans didn't have any of that it is pretty hard to say who is right since the game wasn't trully fair/equal in this regard.


I don't hate American at all as many people do and I don't think their power is completely undeserved, however over the last 30 years they have started a number of pretty dangerous anti-intellectual trends that are now spreading across the world. With potentally very serious consequences, for them and the rest of the world. (and that is actually what I was trying to express with my post)

 

[Kas]

Smokin' hot but I don't think you'd like what I'm packing down there.

I think centuries of German influence into Polish has morphed the language to be a bit over-complicated in terms of spelling.

Most difficult aspects of Polish spelling are simply... typical for Slavic languages: the typical sounds and consonant sequences. There were also Russian influences as [MENTION=5494]Amargith[/MENTION] noticed. There are germanisms, but only in the west part of the country which was invaded by Germany and they're mostly present in dialects of this region (sometimes there are even used German words).



Back to subect of the thread. I'm not a great fan of convenances so I understand what you mean. Still I haven't been in US, but from what you written I wouldn't call it being fake, it's politeness even if the form doesn't suit everyone.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

America is pretty genuine.

You can emigrate and build a new and possibly better life than in your native country. You can complain about the differences all while taking advantage of the differences. On top of that, it isn't punishable or silenced.

If you ask me, that is genuine self-expression at work. Social norms? You'll just have to warm up to if it's that important to you to make new bonds here.

Although you will have some Americans see the lack of graciousness in this and they are the types to say, "If you don't like it, then leave."

There are also some Americans who understand your points and will agree to an extent but give you a shrug and a "bless your heart"

That is the Southerner in me. I'm polite [SUP](fake) [/SUP]when I give shade. *fans self lazily*

 

[prplchknz]

I don't see how saying have a nice day is fake or hostile, wait yes i do, but not always why shouldn't that person who's done nothing wrong to me not have a nice day, plus they seem nice. so they should have a nice day. if they were rude i'd just say thank you which is not wishing anything on them, if they're super rude i'll say fuck you, to them.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Because you don't feel submerged by the capitalist society and because Mc Donald comes from California.

https://youtu.be/3uI6JFl_sq4

Make your own revolution !

 

[Virtual ghost]

I am well aware that making this post will probably make me sound like a jerk but I just can't help myself.



This problem is very very cultural and while you don't consider some things as fake someone from from the outside can sense them as very fake. Number one reason is that America is very capitalism oriented society and therefore from young age you absorb this culture of succes and try to imitate it (at least most do). In American way of life there is actually very little certainties and therefore you constantly have to be on the offense of some kind, what some other nations see as "unatural". For example America and similar countries made an entire science of how to address people down to the last detail, what to someone who is not born in a system that prizes such behaviour can seem as fake. Since I am ambitious I got into situations where I have to do things in a more western way and in general I came across as too blunt (just as others from my part of the word). What is because we don't play so many image games with others, not even subconsciously. Due to the historical reasons we developed pretty direct and straight forward language whose task is to say maximum number of precise facts in the smallest amount of time possible. Therefore in some cultures/situations passing on the facts is much more important than tone of voice, details cloths and similar to that. Therefore since USA recently didn't have any large war zones on its territory there was never a need to push very direct conversation styles in society. Instead conversation could have been more "image oriented" since there wasn't immediate threats.




Another problem is that America is constantly pushing this "number one" thing even if in many many categories it simply isn't number one. USA was number one in pretty much everything a few decades ago but now this is mostly old fame. What makes Americans look like one of those people who show off in many ways but they just don't have something that would cover this image. I mean there would be no real problem that USA is not pushing this image at all cost, what makes Americans look silly. Especially since a number of first world countries have overgrow USA in many aspects. For example number one economy per GDP is EU, and if the union will continue to spread the difference will probably even grow. Also many countries outperform USA in very important areas such as freedom of speech, quality of life, quality of food and violence index. These days on international knowledge tournaments for highschool children USA usually takes something like 15th or 25th place, what turns the whole No 1 thing into a unfunny joke. (feel free to google about the issue)



Extra but not less important thing is the American culture that is exported around the world. Obvious example would be the American invention known as "fast food": looks nice, often tastes pretty good, it is constantly advertised unlike many other types of food, it is realtively cheap ... but it can kill pretty easily if you are not careful. Same is with TV which has countless shows that scream either dumb or fake. Does anyone remembers Jerry Springer show ? If that was not fake then I don't know what fake means. Pretty similar can be said for Oprah show or Dr. Oz which are basically just well packed advertisement for various products, people and events ... and don't even get me started on Big Brother and similar stuff. The truth is that if there are so many such shows that means that they are part of the culture and can't be considered as something else entirely. Another thing that comes as fake is censorship of bad words on TV with "BEEP,BEEP" sounds. I know he said "Fuck you" , you know he said "fuck you" so I see no real reason not to hear that "fuck you". I mean if this is so bad then cut it out from the show entirely, but no someone has to be a whore and a saint at the same time. I mean USA is possibly the only country where you can be drafted but at the same time it is illegal for you too drink beer. Same is with prison population, USA is land of the free but it has largest prison population in absolute values and compared to its own population size.



What step by step leads to the obvious candidate of American fakeness "Politics". American politics is completely full of people who have no real opinion on their own, it all depends on what are interest of the people who pay for their campaigns. Even when you look at those people in politics they in general don't even seem as this is trully their real opinion. Even the media are like "Wow, this will hurt their image very much. We here in the studio are not sure that he will be able to recover from this blow in time". While at the same time no one really care what was actually said or are these just parts of some larger trends, people interested in politics simply don't seem to be interested in botom line since it is all about winning. Which is done throught image and entertaining public, having a better joke than healthcare plan can make you electable in USA, what says trully a lot about the nation, especially if that same nation is pushing itself as number one and role model. What in the end leads to scenario that someone like Trump becomes relavant simply because he is pretty genuine in comparison with other ... but it doesn't have many other strenghts. What clearly shows that the society has a problem in genuinity related issues.



This thread asks why Americans seem as fake and I just wanted to adress why many none Americans make this correlation. I could have been more brutal in this post but my intention really isn't to insult anyone. If you live inside the system you probably don't notice most of this, but when you observe from far far away things can look very differently.

 

[Coriolis]

Seriously you prop up Russia as source of honesty/intellectualism, and attack the American school system. I take it you have little to no idea how the school system works over there? The Russian system is essentially rote learning, there is almost no emphasis on why. (In other words creative problem solving skills.) Only on having the correct answer; a mile wide and an inch deep.

I suppose that is why they have typically run rings around us in math and science, especially theoretical fields? Yes, we have often been ahead on the technology side, slapping things together until they actually work. That is not the same as a fundamental understanding. Schooling geared to job training is fine as long as you stay in basically the same job. Otherwise a broader preparation is better, since it gives you the foundation to switch from job to job as technology and the market evolve. Specific job training should be learned on the job, tailored to the needs of your specific employer.

In any case, if you look at comparisons of students across the globe, Americans are NOT at the top. Our education system is not a source of pride for us. We can stand to learn alot from other nations, including Russia, which has different strengths.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I suppose that is why they have typically run rings around us in math and science, especially theoretical fields? Yes, we have often been ahead on the technology side, slapping things together until they actually work. That is not the same as a fundamental understanding. Schooling geared to job training is fine as long as you stay in basically the same job. Otherwise a broader preparation is better, since it gives you the foundation to switch from job to job as technology and the market evolve. Specific job training should be learned on the job, tailored to the needs of your specific employer.
In any case, if you look at comparisons of students across the globe, Americans are NOT at the top. Our education system is not a source of pride for us. We can stand to learn alot from other nations, including Russia, which has different strengths.

True, for the bolded parts.


However the truth is that USA has such huge amounts of money that it can just buy everthing it needs. The only problem is what happens in situations when the system is so disfunctional that experts will search for their happiness somewhere else, there are other good/rich countries out there. Or what happens when the other side says that not everything is for sale.

 

[Mole]

Make your own revolution !

Revolutions eat their own children.

Just look at the American Revolution and see Revolutionary Americans eating their own children in one of the world's worst Civil Wars.

And look at the Revolution called the Arab Spring, and we now see Arabs eating their own children across the Arab world.

And by contrast look at counties that have never had a Revolution, and see they are stable, democratic, prosperous, and happy, such as Australia Felix.

 

[Betty Blue]

Why are Americans so fake? Fake Smiles, fake greetings, etc? "How are you" without meaning that shit, small talk is bullshit and a way to either wast time. They think they're being courteous with one another when in reality they are RUDE AS FUCK. People should be honest with another, and instead of pretending to care, show what is within themselves. why is such a small percentage real? Don't say because it's herd mentality and a fucking problem with self, e.g Russia is nothing like this. With Russians it's rude to be friendly with others because you don't know them giving them a perception of self preservation so they won't have to stab the person at a later date, no one asks "how are you" unless they know you, and it isn't a joke question but something to be taken seriously. This attitude creates a people that are loyal to one another.

Have a nice day now?

 

[Mole]

Americans are an extraordinary people. Not least because they create social capital every day in their daily interactions.

The very manners and mores of Americans routinely create social capital. And this widespread social capital facilitates the formation of financial capital.

The daily manners and mores of American society facilitate trust, the essential lubricant of capitalism.

So when Americans are accused of being fake, they laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[Dyslexxie]

Americans are some of the coolest people around. Y'all are just jealous.

 

[Coriolis]

Americans are an extraordinary people. Not least because they create social capital every day in their daily interactions.

The very manners and mores of Americans routinely create social capital. And this widespread social capital facilitates the formation of financial capital.

The daily manners and mores of American society facilitate trust, the essential lubricant of capitalism.

So when Americans are accused of being fake, they laugh all the way to the bank.

That social capital, as you call it, is about as worthwhile as all that cheap plastic junk sold at Walmart and the Dollar Store. Sad to say, that junk makes money, too. If making money is what drives you in life, I suppose you have no complaints.

 

[OptoGypsy]

Americans are an extraordinary people. Not least because they create social capital every day in their daily interactions.

The very manners and mores of Americans routinely create social capital. And this widespread social capital facilitates the formation of financial capital.

The daily manners and mores of American society facilitate trust, the essential lubricant of capitalism.

So when Americans are accused of being fake, they laugh all the way to the bank.

Hack the Stupid Fucks lol, in all seriousness money is boring.

- - - Updated - - -

Have a nice day now?

It's been good, Engineering and Anime creates for a day well spent.

 

[OptoGypsy]

That social capital, as you call it, is about as worthwhile as all that cheap plastic junk sold at Walmart and the Dollar Store. Sad to say, that junk makes money, too. If making money is what drives you in life, I suppose you have no complaints.

Are you the evolved American Female?