[NT] Who's more close-minded: NTJs or NTPS?

[Jaguar]

He is also very excitable, but seems more selective, more into war, and more into "being right".

I recently fired an ISTJ for that crap. When one is more interested in being "right" than seeking the truth in a situation, they will have no problem taking a shit on the truth just to be "right." In a bizarre way, it's like dealing with an alcoholic.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

Chubber, I meant Perception or Jugement of course !

I feel a bit crushed by anyone jugement, because to me it is obvious that one can always think of the contrary of "that truth".

I feel right when I had a bad or good experience and that it will not make me change my mind and my own points of view.
(Maybe I am trying to speak of feeling and sensations then)

But dealing with subjects, I don't care to be right, wrong, as learning others' points of view is much more interesting to me.
And when I am sure of a fact, I don't need to discuss of it anyway !
The important is to be sure of myself, not to show off.

"In a bizarre way, it's like dealing with an alcoholic."
Yep Jaguar, you are right

Our ego tends to have its favourite drugs
As an ENTP my drugs are curiosity, informations, things which are still unknown to me and ...sometimes... seem "bizarre".
Maybe that's why I have an ENTJ as a partner and INTJ as friends.
Their careful and cautious behaviour is a kind of railing to my very intuitive initiatives.
They are my gardian angels

This way we remain in the cercle of our intellectual drug
But now my question is : Who's THE FIRE, Perceptive Creative freaks or Jugement Wise Teachers ?

NB: For the MBTI test I am on the scale 53 on the perception cloud, and at the 47th floor as concerning Jugement.
(I ignore how it sounds in english, but it sounds strange enough in french for me to write it down)

 

[chubber]

Chubber, I meant Perception or Jugement of course !

I feel a bit crushed by anyone jugement, because to me it is obvious that one can always think of the contrary of "that truth".

I feel right when I had a bad or good experience and that it will not make me change my mind and my own points of view.
(Maybe I am trying to speak of feeling and sensations then)

But dealing with subjects, I don't care to be right, wrong, as learning others' points of view is much more interesting to me.
And when I am sure of a fact, I don't need to discuss of it anyway !
The important is to be sure of myself, not to show off.

"In a bizarre way, it's like dealing with an alcoholic."
Yep Jaguar, you are right

Our ego tends to have its favourite drugs
As an ENTP my drugs are curiosity, informations, things which are still unknown to me and ...sometimes... seem "bizarre".
Maybe that's why I have an ENTJ as a partner and INTJ as friends.
Their careful and cautious behaviour is a kind of railing to my very intuitive initiatives.
They are my gardian angels

This way we remain in the cercle of our intellectual drug
But now my question is : Who's THE FIRE, Perceptive Creative freaks or Jugement Wise Teachers ?

NB: For the MBTI test I am on the scale 53 on the perception cloud, and at the 47th floor as concerning Jugement.
(I ignore how it sounds in english, but it sounds strange enough in french for me to write it down)

And how long does the sanity of your supposed xNTJ friends last?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

It's ridiculous how many voted for NTJs. I've met so many people who were probably NTPs (several at this very forum) and were themselves incredibly immature and closed-minded to others' opinions or arguments, so it really depends on the individual.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

My supposed XNTJ friends remain healthy and happy as long as one of them seems to provide some good and intense fireworks

Or maybe this is just me


Fuzzy, I must admit I'm one of those crazy fools.

I never vote at french election, I probably prefer doing it in international forums.

This way seems to be a good one to feel responsible and mature enough.


Yes...Psychologically, vote may allow us to feel great, even if it is bullshit.

 

[Kullervo]

Hmm, I wonder. Wouldn't this depend as much on Enneatype and the person's background as MBTI? I really don't think I can vote here.

What I've noticed is that INTPs tend to be quite open-minded about most things about have a few "pet issues" (often seems to be gender related lol) that they go ape shit if you discuss. In contrast INTJs are in general more judgmental but i think you know what you are getting more with us. I can't say much more than this though.

 

[Mal12345]

Why would NTPs be close minded?

Not enough Intuition.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

"In contrast INTJs are in general more judgmental but i think you know what you are getting more with us."

Oh yes of course we do ! However, the other side of the coin is interesting.


"Not enough intuition".

I'm gonna go to bed now and concentrate on my dreams.

They make my own intuition healthy (when I do remember them).

It never came to my mind that XNTP would lack intuition. Why that ?

Mal12345 would you give us some examples ? In which kind of situation would XNTP's intuition suck ?

 

[Mal12345]

"In contrast INTJs are in general more judgmental but i think you know what you are getting more with us."

Oh yes of course we do ! However, the other side of the coin is interesting.


"Not enough intuition".

I'm gonna go to bed now and concentrate on my dreams.

They make my own intuition healthy (when I do remember them).

It never came to my mind that XNTP would lack intuition. Why that ?

Mal12345 would you give us some examples ? In which kind of situation would XNTP's intuition suck ?

INTPs become more rigid in their Ti thinking as their ability or willingness to take in new concepts from the external world (Ne) decreases. There are many causes, however, the result is a certain idiosyncratic fanaticism that not only causes them to lose contact with Ne, they also lose further contact with Fe-inferior, becoming more curmudgeonly and a-social than ever. Si tertiary increases, and this serves to further the INTP's a-social curmudgeonly attitude. INTPs may, for example, hang out by themselves in the library or on the computer more than is healthy, researching only those topics of personal interest that are useful to supporting their limited, fanatical world-view.

 

[Coriolis]

INTPs become more rigid in their Ti thinking as their ability or willingness to take in new concepts from the external world (Ne) decreases. There are many causes, however, the result is a certain idiosyncratic fanaticism that not only causes them to lose contact with Ne, they also lose further contact with Fe-inferior, becoming more curmudgeonly and a-social than ever. Si tertiary increases, and this serves to further the INTP's a-social curmudgeonly attitude. INTPs may, for example, hang out by themselves in the library or on the computer more than is healthy, researching only those topics of personal interest that are useful to supporting their limited, fanatical world-view.

Any advice on how to nudge an INTP out of this state?

 

[Mal12345]

Any advice on how to nudge an INTP out of this state?

It depends on the underlying psychiatric problem. Social anxiety may be a factor, and so the individual may seek treatment for that; but there may be no symptoms whatsoever. Some eccentrics are satisfied being the way they are and see no problem that needs to be solved, because they don't feel particularly lonely or anxious.

 

[Bird]

INTJs have a hard time admitting they are wrong.
Generally, INTPs can relent, although quite stand-offishly, and accept that they are incorrect on something.

So If you are using closed-minded as a synonym for unwilling to accept other ideas than ones they view as correct, definitely INTJs.
At least in my experience.

 

[INTP]

It's ridiculous how many voted for NTJs. I've met so many people who were probably NTPs (several at this very forum) and were themselves incredibly immature and closed-minded to others' opinions or arguments, so it really depends on the individual.

Sure there are close minded people of each type and whether or not people reject the information before really looking into it and judging it as it is depends on the issue and the persons past experiences(which dictate his reactions to it). And the idea of the topic is not to figure out which one is the close minded one and which is not..

But the thing is that NTJs are more prone to trying to judge things before they even fully grasp it or gather enough information about it to make any proper judgments on it. This leads to information not getting pass the filters and can cause closed mindedness. NTPs on the other hand are more perceptive for what is being said, but if it doesent sound right to Ti, it gets labeled as bullshit. So in order to convince an NTP about something true, you just need to make a proper argument for it, but to convince an NTJ about something that they dont see as true is next to impossible.

But if you take a religious fanatic of any type and try to convince him of his religion being wrong and total crap, you are being met with close mindedness. And if you take a weight on your hand and try to convince any type that it will fall if you let go and demonstrate it many times, only a fool wouldnt believe it..

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I'm very happy to read interesting responses, more than trying to give sense to my last night dreams (that I don't remember anyway).

Moreover as you all speak of INTP/INTJ and not ENTP/ENTJ, I don't feel concerned

Mal12345 thanks for your very clear answer about functions for NTP.

On this point I wonder if INTP and ENTP are quite similar in some ways.

I'm not an MBTI genius, and understand more enneagramm concepts today(I've been to many courses and conferences).

Those functions stuffs are a bit hazy to me sometimes. I always have to check the meaning and read again.


"Any advice on how to nudge an INTP out of this state?"

I have no idea. I would say go out with a book outside in a very quiet place,
and trying to keep your head out of your so exciting subjects step by step.

Realising that fresh air is sometimes more healthy than constant researches and intellect stimulation.

It can work for me. And even if considered as an ENTP I seem to become less and less extrovert.
So, why could this not work for intp as well ?

 

[hacbad macbar]

More closed-minded is one who is more scared. Doesnt relate to types.

 

[anticlimatic]

Ti is pretty damn closed, but so is Fi. Not sure which of these functions best pertains to the 'mind,' so I'll go out on a limb and say that the question is just balls to begin with (as though half the people in this thread haven't said pretty much the exact same thing).

I will say that overall, in most practical matters and practices, that NTJs have significantly less interests and hobbies compared to NTPs-- though they make up for it by just being really obsessed with the few they do have. NTJs are much less interested in trying new things than NTPs, and this is typically the measure that I gauge practical 'closed mindedness.' So my vote goes to the NTJs.

 

[imnotsure]

Um... ok I'm kinda new here and I don't quite know enough about mbti types to be considered anything above average knowledge.... but I voted ntj as they are ,according to profile, quicker to make desicions. If they are quicker to make predictions ,perhaps they haven't considered all options naturally making them more closed minded. I am an intp so perhaps my objectivity is compromised by the fact I want my type to be considered open minded. I will repost after I have studied up

 

[PocketFullOf]

This is not even a competition...

 

[Jaguar]

Find the people who repeatedly post the following:

"You're definitely not type blah, blah, blah, blah" or "You're definitely type blah, blah, blah, blah" and perhaps a pattern will emerge. The use of the word "definitely" is a hint. Having said that, just because one person engages in that behavior doesn't mean it makes sense to generalize about the entire group based on those individuals.

On a side note: The logical spelling is closed-minded, not close-minded. But both are used. (Much to my chagrin.)

 

[baccheion]

Any type can be close-minded, but this is usually a judger thing. Close-mindedness goes against what a perceiver is.