[MBTI General] Who is your favorite brain sparring partner?

[Angry Ayrab]

Me personally, I have the most fun when I am with two specific friends, an INTP and ENTP. The INTP is more well read so he keeps up with me pretty easy, but I can always hand the ENTP his ass on a platter with all the trimmings on the sides, because he refuses to pick up a book.

Hmm...
INTJ, these guys are cool, but just seem two awkward sometimes.

ISFJ, Fun at times (my best friend), but can't keep up and we end up talking about cars for an hour.

INFJ, ENFJ, ENTJ, These guys are fun, but they don't always say what they are thinking which pisses me off to no end.

ESFJ, ESTJ, these guys are really passionate, but they don't want to talk about what they refer to as (stupid useless BS).

ISTJ, keep these bastards away from me before I stab one in the face

ESTP, ESFP, (some of my family members, these guys are funny but seriously retarded).

INFP, just nice people that seem aloof, and I don't want to hurt them and I just want to be nice to them.

ISTP, ISFP, never met one.

ENFP, I met one or two, but I am always suspicious of them, I don't know why. They always have that used car salesman smile and seem to be way to nice for any normal person. They seem just as nice as an ENFJ (nicest people) just less sincere, even though I am usually sincerely nice, I am betting people think I am fake too. Plus these bastards, are quick but try to cut me off too much.

 

[alcea rosea]

Basically any type who is interested in the subject I'm talking about.
I get great views and ideas from different kinds of people. xNTP is my all time favourite (a relative).

 

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Your ENTP friend sounds very un-ENTP-like... also quite silly, in fact... which may have nothing to do with type at this point.... as for reading books and stuff... most ENTPs I know have read more books, watched more films, been to more concerts, and seen more art exhibitions than most people can shake a stick at. The problem with that is that they frequently find themselves to be Jacks of all trades and masters of none. I consider myself one of those... the more I read the more I realize I haven't read anything at all... there's so bloody much.



My favorite intellectual sparring partners are generally INTPs... along with ENFJs and *NFPs. I generally prefer intuitives and perceivers because they seem better able to keep their shit together during times of disagreement...

BUT... other ENTPs tend to get strident with me... I don't know what it is... I really need to walk on egg-shells in order to debate well with ENTPs... I'm sure earlier posts have indicated a natural dislike of the ISTJ temperament, even though my older brother, whom I love and actually have a very good relationship with (we talk a lot), is an ISTJ... I do tend to find that once I disagree with him he'll break out some facts... if I knock those down... he'll just say, "well... maybe..." and say nothing more.... I feel if I can convince a well-read ISTJ about some topic I can convince anyone.

 

[heart]

I don't do much in person, verbal sparring. Too hard to extrovert thinking outwards, it is hard enough online. As Dirty Harry says, "A (person) has got to know their limitations." Pretty much only show that side of myself with husband. With other people, what does it matter anyway? Most people think they know it all and most of us know very little actually about what really matters. I work hardest at trying to understand what people think and why they think that, or at least why they think they think and keep my opinion on the idea itself to myself. Nobody is changing anyone's mind out there and both sides walk away thinking they "won."

Online is a whole different thing. There's a visible transcript of what is said and easier to take time and follow what is being said. Easier to transfer ideas through my fingers than my lips.

 

[Angry Ayrab]

Don't worry samuel, I got him started on the reading train and he loves it, I just had a head start against him thats all. He is best at theoretical discussions that need no prior knoweledge, that guy will drive you down every eFFing rabbit hole in wonderland, and that is why he so fun.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

ENTPs first and foremost, because they tend to be smart, funny, original and adaptable. What more could you ask for in an argument?

INTJs are also pretty fun when they are in the right mood, but they are hard. They tend to choose the ground for their battles pretty carefully. But when you beat them down it's a serious buzz. And, since they are INTJs, you feel no need to be gracious in victory. Cue gloat-a-thon.

 

[Angry Ayrab]

ENTPs first and foremost, because they tend to be smart, funny, original and adaptable. What more could you ask for in an argument?

INTJs are also pretty fun when they are in the right mood, but they are hard. They tend to choose the ground for their battles pretty carefully. But when you beat them down it's a serious buzz. And, since they are INTJs, you feel no need to be gracious in victory. Cue gloat-a-thon.

Like you said, ENTP's are insane amounts of fun. Coolest thing about them is they are usually sporting a jet engine under their hood, (thats metaphorically speaking to all you dang ISTJ's, ).

 

[Samuel De Mazarin]

With other people, what does [verbal sparring] matter anyway? Most people think they know it all and most of us know very little actually about what really matters. I work hardest at trying to understand what people think and why they think that, or at least why they think they think and keep my opinion on the idea itself to myself. Nobody is changing anyone's mind out there and both sides walk away thinking they "won."

Verbal sparring is fun because of what you said, "trying to understand what people think and why they think that or at least why they think they think [that]"... I mean, I've learned SO MUCH outside of the classroom... I think as much out as in the classroom (I pay attention in class).

Most of us do know very little about what really matters... and dialogues can be means of teaching ourselves just a little bit more about those things... even if it's only to reinforce how little we know. Socrates and that whole bit about knowledge of one's ignorance.

As for nobody changing anyone's mind... I've had my mind changed PLENTY of times... if people didn't argue with me, I'd be lost... I hope not everyone thinks like you, because then I would have lost out on a lot... most of my 'teachers' are not accredited professors... they're regular folk, or people not necessarily speaking from a lectern.

As the Uddhava Gita says... my gurus are everywhere... the earth revolving around the sun (yes, it was written well before Copernicus and Galileo)... the tortoise moving along steadily.... the tree planting its roots into the ground...

and of course, I'd add all the casual verbal sparring partners I have had and will have.

 

[Samuel De Mazarin]

Like you said, ENTP's are insane amounts of fun. Coolest thing about them is they are usually sporting a jet engine under their hood, (thats metaphorically speaking to all you dang ISTJ's, ).

I should hang around you and Jivin a lot more... not only do I get good conversation, but I get my ego boosted as well (I was going to say stroked, but there were too many homoerotic implications there).

 

[heart]

As for nobody changing anyone's mind... I've had my mind changed PLENTY of times... if people didn't argue with me, I'd be lost... I hope not everyone thinks like you, because then I would have lost out on a lot... most of my 'teachers' are not accredited professors... they're regular folk, or people not necessarily speaking from a lectern.

My answer was meant to be honest and not an insult to anyone in particular and I am sorry that you seem to have taken it a bit personal. It wasn't meant personally. Perhaps you might consider that I may have different off line experiences than you have before judging me on it. I just see a lot of people in my family life who spend time in debate and trying to flatten each other, turned me off to it.

I was merely saying I am different in that I don't seek out verbal sparring in offline life and gave my reasons for doing so. No call to make it personal with the "I hope not everyone thinks like you do" when there are people all accross the spectrum of thought on this out there and each fill each others needs in different ways. I truly get more out of real life exchanges in trying to listen in depth and impartially to people's opinions. Something has to touch me really DEEP/extreme in order to trigger the neccessary Te reaction to become debate orientated.

 

[Angry Ayrab]

My answer was meant to be honest and not an insult to anyone in particular and I am sorry that you seem to have taken it a bit personal. It wasn't meant personally. Perhaps you might consider that I may have different off line experiences than you have before judging me on it. I just see a lot of people in my family life who spend time in debate and trying to flatten each other, turned me off to it.

Hi Heart, man you are so sweet. I don't think he was judging you on it at all, he was just sending his point across in a very creative manner, thats all.

 

[Samuel De Mazarin]

My answer was meant to be honest and not an insult to anyone in particular and I am sorry that you seem to have taken it a bit personal. It wasn't meant personally. Perhaps you might consider that I may have different off line experiences than you have before judging me on it. I just see a lot of people in my family life who spend time in debate and trying to flatten each other, turned me off to it.

First of all, I never took what you said as an insult at all.

Secondly, I'm NOT judging you. I'm not saying you're bad for shying away from verbal sparring. All I said was that I hope not everyone thinks like you because then there'd be no one left for me to verbally spar with. You're projecting values and emotions onto statements where none were implied.

So, because I wasn't feeling insulted, I never judged you, and in fact that the only one inferring moralistic slants is you, I think it would be prudent if you could reassess my statements based on my own perspective, which is simply that, as far as I'm concerned, everyone can do what they want, but I just hope there are plenty of people who like to do what I like to do. I don't condemn people who dislike doing what I like doing. I see a value in it and you don't. There needn't be any visceral reaction to this state of affairs.

________________________________________________________________________________

I reread my post... I am still vexed that you derived some sort of negative judgment on you... everything negative you've read into my post comes from you.

"I hope not everyone thinks like you do" <--- as explained above and alluded to by AngryAyrab, it was a way of saying, "Gee, I'm glad there ARE people who aren't turned off by open verbal sparring because I like doing that."

_______________________________________________________________________________

Example... if you had said, I don't like ballroom dancing... it's just too uncomfortable...

And I'd said... Man! I would hate for everyone to feel like you did about ballroom dancing... I love doing that shit, and if everyone were like you, I'd have no partners to do ballroom dancing with!

There's no condemnation here. At least not from me.

 

[Orangey]

I have definitely had my mind changed through debate with others (and not just with professors).

 

[heart]

but I just hope there are plenty of people who like to do what I like to do.

In that case, it seems odd to say "I hope that not everyone thinks like you do" when obviously you know that not everyone does, because you have described finding plenty of sparring partners.

Plus, I think you probably see a higher version of this and I have seen a lower octave expression of it around me, especially in family situations. All I see is obstinance and a desire to win at all costs

 

[Samuel De Mazarin]

^ OH.... MY.... GOD....

This is a perfect case study of T's interpreting things one way and F's taking it another... I should refer the debaters on T/F distinctions to this incident...

Somewhere here lies the crucial difference between the logic of a T and the logic of an F.

 

[heart]

^ OH.... MY.... GOD....

This is a perfect case study of T's interpreting things one way and F's taking it another... I should refer the debaters on T/F distinctions to this incident...

Somewhere here lies the crucial difference between the logic of a T and the logic of an F.

It is not as bad as "OH... MY... GOD..." surely, a momentary misunderstanding. I simply attempted to illuminate why it struck me as personal by my last post. I will cease now as I don't want to cause any kind of issue or big dramatic scene. Obviously it is all my fault and I accept all blame.

 

[Angry Ayrab]

Heart trust me on this one, ENTP's are like families to us ENFP's, they think in exactly the same way we do, and are even more smooth with that Fe. He really meant no offense.

I am pretty sure, like you said, that you have had a negative experience with this kind of thing before so you might be projecting it over his comment, but I promise you that I am more sure than the fact that I am male that he meant you no offense.

 

[Samuel De Mazarin]

In that case, it seems odd to say "I hope that not everyone thinks like you do" when obviously you know that not everyone does, because you have described finding plenty of sparring partners.

Plus, I think you probably see a higher version of this and I have seen a lower octave expression of it around me, especially in family situations. All I see is obstinance and a desire to win at all costs

Okay... I should have phrased it differently... I'm sorry (genuinely) for the misunderstanding... I think maybe my NTP'ness is being expressed in expecting everyone to read the lines without necessarily being affected (in the technical sense) by them...

No... no... I understand where you're coming from... I should have represented both sides in my response... I don't enjoy debating with my father, who is super-smart and yet very close-minded when it comes to things like homosexuality (he's not in favor of legal discrimination, as such... though he wants NOTHING to do with them... hates watching shows with gays or lesbians in them... it's a touchier issue than even gay marriage).

One HAS to find the right people to do it with... which is where I think AngryAyrab was coming from when he started this thread... typing helps, but there's the supervenient je-ne-sais-quois of human personality that also tilts the scales towards obduracy or receptivity.

 

[Angry Ayrab]

^ OH.... MY.... GOD....

This is a perfect case study of T's interpreting things one way and F's taking it another... I should refer the debaters on T/F distinctions to this incident...

Somewhere here lies the crucial difference between the logic of a T and the logic of an F.

LMFAO, dude you can't just pigeon hole all us F's, now you hurt my feelings, thats it we aren't speaking anymore. Wait, I mean texting, or foruming, or whatever the hell this thing is... aaauuuhhhh... just go away.

 

[Samuel De Mazarin]

It is not as bad as "OH... MY... GOD..." surely, a momentary misunderstanding. I simply attempted to illuminate why it struck me as personal by my last post. I will cease now as I don't want to cause any kind of issue or big dramatic scene. Obviously it is all my fault and I accept all blame.

I get you... I was being somewhat faux-enthusiastic with the "OH... MY... GOD...", though I do think there was some value in the exchange.

But as for this: "Obviously it is all my fault and I accept all blame." I realize that was probably sarcastic, but still... No!!!!

I've accepted blame too! See! ^