Which function is the hardest for you to grasp?

[OneLovelyAdventure]

I have a horrible, horrible time with Se. It's consistently my lowest-scoring function on every test I take. And, being an ENFP, I guess it's kind of supposed to be pretty foreign. It's hard for me to truly just live in the present moment. Si comes in second -- I'm not a very good Sensor at all!

 

[Lord Lavender]

I have a horrible, horrible time with Se. It's consistently my lowest-scoring function on every test I take. And, being an ENFP, I guess it's kind of supposed to be pretty foreign. It's hard for me to truly just live in the present moment. Si comes in second -- I'm not a very good Sensor at all!

As an ENFP in theory Ti would be your least understood function as it is your PoLR. Im curious as to how you see Ti.

 

[erg]

As an ENFP in theory Ti would be your least understood function as it is your PoLR. Im curious as to how you see Ti.

She could be socionics INFj/EII. That would be consistent with her answers.

 

[c-jade]

I understand all of them now, though back then, the hardest one to grasp and understand the most was Si. It was supremely difficult for me to even put it into words if someone were to ask what Si is and what it's meant to do.

Puttin' you on the spot: Describe Si, now that you understand it. Because even after getting to a point where I'm like, "Yeah, I get it," I still don't get it.

 

[c-jade]

An example would be when I tell a Fi user that there are social customs such as having to send Christmas cards or write a thank you letter they dont like that in general as they feel that it is fake and doenst show their true feelings for another person. Not to say that Fi users are rude or disrespectful and can be quite sweet in their own little way. My ESFP aunt for example doesn't like following Christmas social norms such as writing cards and attending parties but instead she will out of her Fi morals help the homeless out or spend time with her family. One time i told her she should vist relatives she dislikes at Christmas to keep the peace and she got angry saying that i will only spend time with people I truly love. I must confess my Fe advice can come across as being like a stereotypical busybody ExFJ.

I am just now realizing that I might use Fi, not Fe like I've thought for a long time, and I relate to this a lot. It reminds me of when I was planning my wedding, and my mom (who I'm sure is a high Fe-user) kept stressing about whether or not we should invite her extended family. She'd had a sort of falling out with most of them many years before, but we wanted to invite the couple of them that we're still close with. My mom felt like we had to invite everyone if we were going to invite a couple of them, because otherwise they'd all be offended. I was so pissed off by this. Like truly outraged at the idea of that I should invite people to my wedding that no one in my family was close to anymore just because it was the "polite" thing to do or people were gonna be offended if I didn't. My response was, "I don't freaking CARE if they're upset, that's their problem, and my wedding is not about to turn into a therapy-session family reunion."

Long story short, I am surprised I (and my mbti friends) didn't see Fi in me a lot sooner given that I often get upset when people tell me I HAVE to do something because it's what is socially expected of me.

 

[Thalassa]

I think Ti. I mean I know what it is, and I grasp that it is to Te as Fi is to Fe, which means it would be more inclined to philosophy, depth and detailed reflection (I think that summarizes Ji in general) but I am pretty sure it's Ti that figures out how systems work or create new ones, and I'm just pretty baffled at how the original creators designed suspension bridges, airplanes and machinery in general, it's just not how I think, so I could never absolutely grasp Ti.

 

[Yama]

Puttin' you on the spot: Describe Si, now that you understand it. Because even after getting to a point where I'm like, "Yeah, I get it," I still don't get it.

I am not theforsaken but

Si is very similar to Ni, but instead of drawing its archetypes from some sort of collective unconscious, it creates its own archetypes from experience, and these archetypes do not change. Because if archetypes can change, then what the hecky is the entire point of having an archetype in the first place? It becomes completely useless and the world is chaotic.

For example, from my experience, a chair has legs, a seat and a back. Does it have all of these qualities? Congrats, it's a chair. Missing one? Not a chair. Ever. So imagine you show me a barstool. It has legs. It has a seat. No back. It's not a chair. And you can argue with me all day long, but I will never, ever classify it as a chair because it does not meet the archetype's qualities, and archetypes never can change or else they become meaningless. Si can be extremely stubborn about this.

BUT, since these archetypes are based off of personal experience, one Si user's archetype won't necessarily match another's. Maybe to me, a chair has legs, a seat and a back so a barstool is not a chair. But maybe to another Si type, a chair only needs legs and a seat, so a barstool is a chair. And we can argue all day, but neither of us are going to compromise, because we take these archetypes very seriously. The whole point of an archetype is that it is constant, eternal, never changing. If we can change a definition or an archetype whenever we want, then they lose all meaning. This is why sometimes people can find Si frustrating or "stuck in its ways," but it really does depend on the individual Si types' archetypes and personal experience. Older SJs will have archetypes that look very different from younger SJ's archetypes because they grew up in a different time period and had vastly different experiences that structured those archetypes.

 

[Galena]

I'm the other person who chose Ne. I attempted to explain why this is, but realized that I don't understand Ne well enough to do so.

 

[Thalassa]

Just curious [MENTION=1180]miss fortune[/MENTION] and [MENTION=30122]Brain in a Jar[/MENTION], but what would you guys say is "Fe advice"? Or, advise that can turn off Fi users. Another question, I know dealing with unhealthy types is never easy, but saying you're dealing with four healthy individuals that use Fi, do you find a difference in dealing with doms, aux, etc.?

I've noted that a lot of Fe types just assume Fi is "unhealthy" and this is probably compounded in TPs, who use Fe in service to Ti, so Fi just absolutely baffles them more. A true FJ likely has more grasp of Fi, but in the middle of an argument or stressful situation, they're going to get frustrated that the Fi type isn't using Fe, or in anger/stress only uses Fe to nitpick or wound, which would send the message of "unhealthy" to them...just like the weird reliance on what loved ones have told them is right seems incredibly stupid and childish to me, to me Fe is like retarded Fi, in subjective stressful interactions, and I think it's the reverse for them, though I can totally appreciate Fe in a calm or pleasant interaction, or in a social situation involving aquaintences, co-workers, or a place where deep feeling is neither needed nor desired, Fe shines to me as positive.

 

[Dreamer]

I have a horrible, horrible time with Se. It's consistently my lowest-scoring function on every test I take. And, being an ENFP, I guess it's kind of supposed to be pretty foreign. It's hard for me to truly just live in the present moment. Si comes in second -- I'm not a very good Sensor at all!

I discussed Se vs Ne at lengths with [MENTION=11928]Kierva[/MENTION] before and to my understanding, if you want to understand Se, look at it through your understanding of Ne

They both love the exploration and love getting their hands dirty, except Ne sees beyond, and Se sees what's before them. In this sense, the old phrase "living in the moment" is very much a truth to some extent. Doesn't mean Se users are always "on", but it means they play with their environment just as Ne users do, but they do so in a more material fashion. Pe, whether Se or Ne, is freakin awesome and should be explored by everyone at least a little bit no matter where it sits in their stacking.

 

[Thalassa]

Ill explain what Ti/Fe is like . What my thinking process is like as a Ti/Fe type. Basically I have this internal logic compass which similar to Fi acts as my internal compass but with logic instead of values (Ti is more like "What makes most logical sense to me"). Fe comes along and says that Ti is a little meane and needs to behave himself. (How my Fe treats my Ti you cruel heartless thing. Bascilly Ti is my interior sociopath and Fe the motherly hen keeping it in check). For example I am solving a problem and Ti says that "It would be most logical to bomb x country to save future wars then Fe comes along and says "You will be considered a evil heartless murderer (Just a theoretical example)

The last sentence: see as an Fi type I could have a similar thought, such as, assassination of Donald Trump would be justified in saving many lives, or eradication of the population of an over-populated nation seems "practical" or "efficient" (baby Te?) ...but while you care about being considered an evil heartless murderer, instead of worrying about what people think of me, my Fi says no that's morally inconsistent with my values and murder is universally wrong, so then I am forced to consider less base, impulsive scenarios, and instead think in long term workable scenarios (Se/Ni working then?) that are morally pure, like fixing my own way of being through fasting and prayer, or educating people on alternative energy and vegan agriculture, or finding out which legal channels could rid us of the Cheeto-man.

 

[Thalassa]

I'd say Fe. I may have Fe, and may even be Fe-dom, but I still don't understand it. I can explain it to a person readily, but I can't fathom how I have it. It's honestly confusing. Though I was thinking about this today: I think Fe/Ti users are more common, Fi/Te users not really. Yet Fi/Te exerts a lot more control over the dominant type, when you think Fe would be able to do it with a function like Ti.

I do agree that Ti makes you a little sociopathic. However I think lower Fe users are less socipathic than higher ones, simply because they're ignorant. And that sounds mean, but it's true. It's like trying to solve a math equation when your teacher has only given you a bit of the way it should be done. You don't know how to go any farther. And your ignorance keeps you safe, but it ain't bliss. Hmm, hmm.

Fe just screams those articles you read on BuzzFeed, they're kinda relatable but not really and they get old fast. Or maybe those articles on WikiHow about how not to fail at relations with other people. When you google, "how to have friends thnks", Fe is all that you get.

And I think it deserves its reputation as hella mean. And don't say I'm hating on it, because I may very well be its user.

Fe is the worst when you get stupid people in large groups. Say you have a bunch of uneducated Fe types, and they will all agree with each other that lynching people is OK, or that Donald Trump will make Merica great again, and it's extremely difficult to talk them out of it, because they've all agreed it's OK. Throw enough Si in the mix of "but this is the way we have always done it" and you may end up with a Civil War on your hands.

But ignorance is always a problem, no matter what someone's personality type is.

I don't think Fi/Te is rare. ISTJ is the most common type for men by MBTI, and about 20 percent of women are SFP.

 

[Poki]

I discussed Se vs Ne at lengths with [MENTION=11928]Kierva[/MENTION] before and to my understanding, if you want to understand Se, look at it through your understanding of Ne

They both love the exploration and love getting their hands dirty, except Ne sees beyond, and Se sees what's before them. In this sense, the old phrase "living in the moment" is very much a truth to some extent. Doesn't mean Se users are always "on", but it means they play with their environment just as Ne users do, but they do so in a more material fashion. Pe, whether Se or Ne, is freakin awesome and should be explored by everyone at least a little bit no matter where it sits in their stacking.

Dating an Ne dom, its not Ne sees beyond Se, its that we see different. She sees meaning and i see reality. I say this because she doesnt see what i see. She dismisses what i dont and i dismiss what she doesnt. For example, we kay both interact with the same person, but i may see what is where as she sees whats possible. This means she has to pass whats possible by me as a validation. Where as i pass what is by her and she looks into possibilities. We play off each other heavily this way as a check and balance system. She gets so stuck in possibility she misses how what is ties into the possibility and i get so stuck in what is that i cant fully see the possibilities.

She is dumbfounded by my accuracy of the world and i love the possibilities that Ne brings in that i didnt see because i am more stuck watching the world. When she watches the world she internalizes emotionally and detail, but she doesnt analyze as much naturally as i do. My analysis is more natural then hers is. When i watch the world i take in a tremendous amount of data and analyze it way beyond what she does.

 

[Dreamer]

Dating an Ne dom, its not Ne sees beyond Se, its that we see different. She sees meaning and i see reality. I say this because she doesnt see what i see. She dismisses what i dont and i dismiss what she doesnt. For example, we kay both interact with the same person, but i may see what is where as she sees whats possible. This means she has to pass whats possible by me as a validation. Where as i pass what is by her and she looks into possibilities. We play off each other heavily this way as a check and balance system. She gets so stuck in possibility she misses how what is ties into the possibility and i get so stuck in what is that i cant fully see the possibilities.

She is dumbfounded by my accuracy of the world and i love the possibilities that Ne brings in that i didnt see because i am more stuck watching the world. When she watches the world she internalizes emotionally and detail, but she doesnt analyze as much naturally as i do. My analysis is more natural then hers is. When i watch the world i take in a tremendous amount of data and analyze it way beyond what she does.

I love this comparo of the two. And you're right, it's not that Ne sees "beyond" but it sees beneath the surface is what I was getting at. It's not better, just a different take on the same thing. It'd be so interesting to have the opportunity to do as you do, with your Ne dom. Walking around and checking and balancing each other. Since I only see the world in my perspective and don't always have access to the world an Se dom or aux may offer, I can very easily miss what's right in front of me.

 

[Norrsken]

Puttin' you on the spot: Describe Si, now that you understand it. Because even after getting to a point where I'm like, "Yeah, I get it," I still don't get it.

Si, as I understand it, means you have this informational powerhouse inside your head. As it is a perceiving function, this is people get their information from; Si collectively gathers concrete details of past events and uses it to relate to the present moment. Some Si users like to say that they like to use trees or buildings to describe this function, in which they add on to their personal past experiences to build up what they expect to be the reality of their environment. INFP people, who use Si in their tertiary role, prefer to see it as a filing cabinet to neatly put away information they have learned to use for the near or distant future.

 

[misfortuneteller]

Ni but I voted Se because i'm really out of touch with the trends, but I do get it. I misunderstood the question, clearly.

 

[rainybisto]

Fi. Because to this day I'm still confused if I'm using Fi or Ti. It seems like I'm using Ti, even from the first time I read about it, but I have strong feelings and values, which I use to make my decisions many times. (Negative ones. Should be noted, I include laziness and unmotivated as feeling). I don't prefer Te at all, in fact Te has been the kind of thinking that I tried to avoid before I understand this stuff. (Or is this supposed to be a hint that I'm polarizing between Fi vs Te?)

I think many Fi and Ti characteristics given were actually characteristics of Introverted Judgers. Critical, self-doubt, perfectionism, internal values, etc. It's not specific and consistent in many areas, I ended up making my own definitions for them. But the implication is many people would've been mistyped.

So, actually all judging functions are harder to grasp in applied sense, to me. Especially if you apply it to your own self. And using MBTI definitions.