[Type 4] What's a 4w5?

[Anew Leaf]

That one's quite good. doesn't say the word, "magical" either. That makes me cringe.

Well, from what I understand, INFPs (like me) are quite magical, pure, and feminine. Kind of like a unicorn but without a tail.

 

[prplchknz]

maybe zang thinks i'm a four because i sound sad.

 

[King sns]

maybe zang thinks i'm a four because i sound sad.

No because only magical INFP chickens are purple.

(Edit: What are you, a five?)

 

[prplchknz]

(I have no idea)

 

[brainheart]

Took that eclectic energies test. It said I was a four with balanced wings, sexual variant. Seven and nine came up next (although I was decidedly a four.) Seems very right on, and explains my feeling somewhere in between a 4w5 and 4w3.

 

[Southern Kross]

Does anyone have a good website with descriptions of these subtypes specifically? I have tried looking up 4w3 and 4w5 descriptions and I get nothing of value.

Thanks

Whew! I remembered a good one someone posted a while back(that I had been meaning to look up again for my own benefit) and it took a while to track it down. I'm not sure where its originally from, sorry. Its pretty brutal but I though it rather on the money.

4w3

4w3s are theatrical, dramatic, and effete. Compared to 4w5s they are generally more ambitious and competitive, and place a greater emphasis on appearing beautiful, desireable, and elite. They tend to feel entitled and exempt. They are said to be divas and aristocrats as their three wing transforms their sources of shame and defectiveness into art and expression, an aloof presentation that incorporates conventionally desireable elements into their style. They have a more glorious self-image and are more inspiration-seeking. They feel a connection with the magical as if they're part of a special class of people with secret powers. They are the outsiders who dream of magically returning to show others what they missed. The magical overtones in their persona are reminders of that to themselves. Compared to 4w5s they have more energy to keep up the act to get by in the world, but are also more likely to feel fake about it afterwards. They balance a greater ability to wear different masks with greater shame over losing their internal substance. They have an amorphous self-image that adapts to others but is in conflict with the core 4 fixation which sees it as "inauthentic". They are less likely than 4w5s to call out others for not being authentic for fear of pointing the finger back at themselves and their many contradictions.

4w3s are marked by multiple dichotomies due to types 3 and 4 being opposites in so many ways: inferior/superior, being/becoming, self-conscious/confident, putting themselves down/glorifying themselves, withdrawn/assertive, emotional/flatlined, reactive/cool-headed, mired in the past/focused on moving forward, awkward/poised, fragile/resilient, easily discouraged/do whatever it takes, rejecting the game/conquering the game. While they will put up countershame smokescreens to get your attention and see if you are perceptive enough to see and accept the real them underneath, they may seem distant to even close ones to keep up appearances. Ideally they'd have a rich emotional life without having the ugliest parts of themselves exposed.

Underneath a 4w3's more fluid identity their 4ness gives them an awareness of something truer and deeper within themselves that roots everything. Their 3 wing precludes people from seeing fully what is inside them including even themselves. However they know their personal awareness anchor is there no matter where their changeability takes them. They know on a deeper level their fluctuations stem back to a single consistent essence. Still, they wonder if they are fooling themselves. Despite their consistent underlying essence they lead an inconsistent life and wonder if they are being true to themselves. They try to balance selling themselves out in the real world with hanging out amongst the "keeping it real" crowd. They are more likely to go the distance in their career due to their three wing before their fourness causes them to sabotage themselves. In extreme cases 4w3s totally give up on life after finally "making it".

4w5s

4w5s have a harsher edge than 4w3s and are the true outsiders of the enneagram. They tend to be more intellectual and introspective. They are more likely to philosophize their inner reality. Many 4w5s have an unflinching "this is me so deal with it" persona that's harder and crustier in comparison to 4w3s. They tend to be absurdly original or profoundly eclectic. Either way they have a more "take it or leave it" attitude and are more likely to direct a critical edge at others. Their persona serves more to redirect their shame away from their vulnerable self behind it in contrast to the 4w3 whose more shapeshifting persona facilitates relating to people. The more shame a 4w5 feels the more they implode, or in some cases amplify their persona as a countershame response. As a result 4w5s are more likely to present a more bizarre and even grotesque image in some instances that reflects their feelings of defectiveness combined with a fascination for the macabre that their five wing brings.

4w5s have a great pride in staying "true to themselves no matter what" amidst what changes in the world around them. They accept being isolated from others and are personally invested in their self-image enough to stick with it through thick and thin. They are equally proud of suffering for their weirdness as paying the price for being who they are only makes them feel even more authentic about themselves. It illustrates how they are too complex to be understood by the unworthy who lack the perception to decode their many layers to understand the real them.

Suffering for their internal self-image serves to reinforce their authenticity. The more they suffer for it the more they cling to their internal self-image and 4w5s wear their lack of compromise as a badge of honor for being true to themselves. "I'm completely true to myself and no one can take that from me." They mythologize their own personal tragedy. On the flip side being double-withdrawn they have less of a will to deal with the world and feel more overwhelmed by it. Despite seeking meaning in everything they are more likely to tend towards nihilism. Combine that with being even more true to themselves in response to their suffering and they become more and more disconnected from the world. In a self-destructive cycle the 4w5 holds his head high at never selling himself out like others, but ironically has little to nothing to show for it since he's actualized his identity with futile concepts that have no basis in reality. A feeling of hopelessness sets in and he withdraws from the world more permanently.

EDIT: I think its from here. There's some interesting reads there, including a nice general 4 description

 

[William K]

Ooops, late to the party. I've read the description that Southern Kross posted and it's really too negative on the 4w5s

Not as big a fan of the enneagram compared to MBTI and functions so what follows is possibly tainted from a mixture of sources

Why I feel I'm 4w5?
1) The individualism part
There is this need to be able to say that I did things my way. Not because I want to be different from everyone else. Ok, not just because of that, but rather because I prefer to make my decisions based mainly on my own criteria. Hence, I tend to be distrustful of things that are popular unless I have tried them myself. Take something subjective like movies or music for example. Just because it's a movie that is making record sales doesn't mean I have to like it. Of course, it doesn't mean that I automatically hate anything that is popular. Or that I have an elitist attitude toward things like commercial pop music. There are songs I like and songs I don't. Again, it's about making up my own mind about things, and not being contrary for the sake of being contrary.

2) The whole 'emotion' thingy
"I emote therefore I am" seems like the motto I live by. The mood I'm in is the main thing that helps me with my decisions. Instead of trying to put the emotions in the backburner and make a decision, if the emotions are not engaged then why bother? Yes, there may be times when I tend to over-wallow in emotions but I feel that it is an important side of me and ignoring the messages they are sending would hurt more than help. The day I stop being sensitive to my emotions will be probably the day I'm laid 6 feet under

3) The dark side
Like a Jedi, there is always a dark side to 4w5s It makes for a lot of emo and sighing but to me a balanced life is one where you recognize both the good and the 'evil' within. The danger is when the shame from the perceived deficiencies over-ride every thing else and you feel inferior to everyone else. The trick is of course realizing that everyone else also their strengths and weaknesses, and envy and shame are just a waste of energy.

 

[pinkgraffiti]

i'm very much in my own head, i don't feel like a lot of people get me. i can be very laid back and detached from life, but will get very intense and obsessive about certain things, especially my relationships. when i'm upset about something i think about it constantly and analyze every aspect of it to death. i don't think i try very hard to be different, but i always have been, and i tend to rebel against things that people i dislike and don't relate to like. i've gotten increasingly more quiet over the years, because i'm either afraid of being misunderstood or i just don't think it's that relevant or important for people to know. i don't feel the need to push my values and beliefs on others, and i resent it when people do the same to me. i don't worry about my physical safety a lot, i can be reckless and fearless but then get very anxious about stupid little things like a phone call or seeing someone i don't want to. i hate looking like i don't know what i'm talking about, if i see something i know i always try to look it up myself and i get annoyed with people who are content being ignorant or ask a lot of stupid questions they could easily answer themselves. i think i'm pretty good at figuring people out, seeing through the bullshit, knowing their strengths and weaknesses. this makes me kinda scary when people get on my bad side, because i don't have a bad temper at all but i can usually find the best way to push someone's buttons or upset them (this doesn't happen a lot.) i value my independence a lot, and i definitely like my alone time, but i like having people i can relate to. i don't hurt people often or put a lot of demands on people, but i will admit to being pretty selfish and i think about my own needs before others, because i figure if i don't look out for myself who will? i'm really lazy and pretty content spending my whole day doing nothing but hanging out, reading, watching tv or movies, listening to music. i have no desire to be someone big or important, i just want to be happy and comfortable and have a few people around that care about me and vice versa.

what would you say would be the big difference between you and a 4w3 sx/sp? (yes, ive read the descriptions, but im still not convinced of the type of someone i know, and to be honest i'd rather listen to someone's personal experience)

 

[Impact Calculus]

Ooops, late to the party. I've read the description that Southern Kross posted and it's really too negative on the 4w5s

Not as big a fan of the enneagram compared to MBTI and functions so what follows is possibly tainted from a mixture of sources

Why I feel I'm 4w5?
1) The individualism part
There is this need to be able to say that I did things my way. Not because I want to be different from everyone else. Ok, not just because of that, but rather because I prefer to make my decisions based mainly on my own criteria. Hence, I tend to be distrustful of things that are popular unless I have tried them myself. Take something subjective like movies or music for example. Just because it's a movie that is making record sales doesn't mean I have to like it. Of course, it doesn't mean that I automatically hate anything that is popular. Or that I have an elitist attitude toward things like commercial pop music. There are songs I like and songs I don't. Again, it's about making up my own mind about things, and not being contrary for the sake of being contrary.

2) The whole 'emotion' thingy
"I emote therefore I am" seems like the motto I live by. The mood I'm in is the main thing that helps me with my decisions. Instead of trying to put the emotions in the backburner and make a decision, if the emotions are not engaged then why bother? Yes, there may be times when I tend to over-wallow in emotions but I feel that it is an important side of me and ignoring the messages they are sending would hurt more than help. The day I stop being sensitive to my emotions will be probably the day I'm laid 6 feet under

3) The dark side
Like a Jedi, there is always a dark side to 4w5s It makes for a lot of emo and sighing but to me a balanced life is one where you recognize both the good and the 'evil' within. The danger is when the shame from the perceived deficiencies over-ride every thing else and you feel inferior to everyone else. The trick is of course realizing that everyone else also their strengths and weaknesses, and envy and shame are just a waste of energy.

1) fits me

2) fits me

3) Contrasting traits of the self scare the four to death

 

[Ene]

I am a 4w5.
I have decided that I have no idea what we're like.
I paint and am at complete peace when I do, but I can also climb on stage, play guitar and sing in front of a few thousand people. Of course, my knees shake so badly that they bang together, but the audience doesn't know that. I write poetry, but don't read much of it because most of it SUCKS! However, once in a great while, I come across a poet whose work completely captivates me and then I'll read and completely enjoy.

 

[chickpea]

what would you say would be the big difference between you and a 4w3 sx/sp? (yes, ive read the descriptions, but im still not convinced of the type of someone i know, and to be honest i'd rather listen to someone's personal experience)

hmm it's hard to say because i can't really think of any 4w3s i know well that i can compare myself to. but i would think they'd be more outwardly emotional and dramatic than i am. i'm capable of having outbursts i guess, but they're rare and around most people i try to keep my feelings pretty well guarded. people see me as pretty cold and aloof.

 

[Trunks]

4w5 are more reserved than 4w3, serious and calm in every critical situation.

 

[Pod'lair]

Seems fairly likely. Although, most will see the distinction between a 4 and other types through one-dimensional traits. There can only really be truth found in the deeply ingrained defense mechanisms and fears of a given individual. These are usually the things we ignore - which leads people to misinterpret their enneagram type, etc.

 

[Burger King]

4w5 are more reserved than 4w3, serious and calm in every critical situation.

A self preservation 4w3 will look more reserved. A sexual variant 4w5 will be more expressive, like a 4w3 cliche. People are making the mistake of instinctual variant differences for wing differences. I've seen some bizarre justification for the 5-wing. Basically has nothing to do with the 5 fear/coping style/tendencies.

Seems fairly likely. Although, most will see the distinction between a 4 and other types through one-dimensional traits. There can only really be truth found in the deeply ingrained defense mechanisms and fears of a given individual. These are usually the things we ignore - which leads people to misinterpret their enneagram type, etc.

Yep.