What is school so bullshit

[93JC]

The professional occupations mentioned DO require "apprenticeships": doctors must complete their residency, lawyers must complete a period of articling, etc.

 

[netzealot]

I have come to the conclusion that the conventional college system is not the place for SPs and in fact this problem has already been addressed a while ago in the form of tech school. It's short, and vaults you into a high paying job based on your technical ability.

What you must understand too is that for most SPs, the jobs you'd get after 4+ years of college will probably feel like an equal waste of your life. With few exceptions, they tend to be the likes of slow paced desk jobs. The jobs that are an exception to this will all include a portion of practical training anyways. So even if you can stomach the schooling for it, you're out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Tech school, on the other hand, is designed to provide the practical training and cut the rest out. They can do this because the jobs you can go to tech school for are equally practical and fast paced. It's the perfect place for SPs... ISFPs for instance, to follow the cliche, could go to fine art school, ISTPs to mechanical, ESFP to performing arts, and ESTPs to business. Of course that barely scratches the surface of the 20+ types of tech school but you get the idea.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Wouldn't want an untrained person at all I'm more or less talking about the efficiency of our education system. Does a doctor really need 8-10 years of schooling or could their work be done sooner same with layers and other professions. It seems that the education system is set up so that we have to push through countless hoops in order to achieve our goal.

Perhaps this happened in the "olden days" or I just like to tell stories, but once upon a time I think many people learned a skill through an apprenticeship of sorts (edit: which I see was already mentioned), sometimes along with some formal schooling & other times not. They'd be trained by a "master" in a more hands-on setting & would gradually inch into the actual job (as opposed to going from a classroom and "in theory" to being tossed into the realities of a profession). For many professions & some people's learning preferences this may be more effective than a more structured classroom setting. Financially, it makes waaaaay more sense for a lot of people & it's a shame there are not a lot more or more known apprentice type programs or opportunities.

I found college was actually a faster but more expensive way to learn a chunk of what people would learn on my job over time. I feel like they pack 10 years of stuff into a few years, but the trade-off is you pay for it instead of learning while making money on a real job. So it can be a way to expertise faster, but not the only way, and certainly not without a cost (literally).

People also view college as making you more well-rounded over all; college used to be less about education for a job than education, period, which is why it was mainly for the wealthy. It was not meant to lead to anything but a more enriched mind. Yeah, that can be done for free in a public library (to a point; let's not devalue the face time with professors & instructors & interaction with peers), but few are that self-discplined. When you pay for it, then you have a big motivation to follow through, haha.

 

[jixmixfix]

Society increasingly values certification over qualification, though, which relates to the idea of excessive formal schooling. It doesn't count if you can actually do the job, if you don't have all the right paperwork and boxes checked. This affects well qualified people who got their training and experience in the military, overseas, or even in a different state, and feeds a racket in which they must pay for unneeded "training", new certificates, wavers, application fees, etc. It has everything to do with bureaucracy and profit, and little to do with making sure someone can do the job. The skilled trades Giggly mentioned rely on apprenticeships in most cases. More occupations would do well to follow this model.

THIS.

 

[Mole]

The education system is inefficient and unrealistic it keeps people down in the dumps for a hope that one day afters years of slavery their lives will different.

Our education system in prosperous countries of free, secular and compulsory education has been enormously successful in creating universal literacy and the counter-intuitive point of view.

But literacy is now the content of the electric media and we are learning different manners and mores which conflict with the old education system.

 

[Thalassa]

It would teach you to ask why instead of what properly in this title.

 

[jixmixfix]

Our education system in prosperous countries of free, secular and compulsory education has been enormously successful in creating universal literacy and the counter-intuitive point of view.

But literacy is now the content of the electric media and we are learning different manners and mores which conflict with the old education system.

There is more to education than literacy.

 

[jixmixfix]

It would teach you to ask why instead of what properly in this title.

It was a typo chill you're not funny.

 

[Thalassa]

I am hilarious, come on.

 

[highlander]

I have come to the conclusion that the conventional college system is not the place for SPs and in fact this problem has already been addressed a while ago in the form of tech school. It's short, and vaults you into a high paying job based on your technical ability.

What you must understand too is that for most SPs, the jobs you'd get after 4+ years of college will probably feel like an equal waste of your life. With few exceptions, they tend to be the likes of slow paced desk jobs. The jobs that are an exception to this will all include a portion of practical training anyways. So even if you can stomach the schooling for it, you're out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Tech school, on the other hand, is designed to provide the practical training and cut the rest out. They can do this because the jobs you can go to tech school for are equally practical and fast paced. It's the perfect place for SPs... ISFPs for instance, to follow the cliche, could go to fine art school, ISTPs to mechanical, ESFP to performing arts, and ESTPs to business. Of course that barely scratches the surface of the 20+ types of tech school but you get the idea.

I think that's a stereotype. There area a lot of SPs that do extremely well in conventional college.

 

[Mole]

There is more to education than literacy.

There is more to education than literacy now that we have the electronic media.

But until the advent of the electronic media, education was all about printed books.

So education started in 1440 with the invention of the printing press, but came to an end in 1840 with the invention of the electric telegraph.

 

[Giggly]

These are skilled trades, not manual labor. They are respectable and often lucrative career choices for both men and women. Joining the military is also an option whose merits are not limited to men.

Yes I'm aware that those are skilled trades and that they and the military are open to both men and women. There was a reason why I brought these up to jix.

 

[Habba]

There are serious issues in education systems, but not for the reasons OP mentioned. I think the problem is when education is turned into business. When there's money to be made, certifications and qualifications are valued over students' learning process. Why teach students to be self-sufficient, when you can burden them with work and charge them for thousands of dollars for certificates.

Further, all education should be public, and free. Private schools are a slap in the face of what education is all about. Highly educated citizens benefit (decreased crime rates, less violence, more innovation, etc) nation, so it should be nation's responsibility to educate them.

Studying should not be hard work. It should not be expensive. It should not be a prerequisite for a job. It should be passionate.

 

[Scheherezade]

There are serious issues in education systems, but not for the reasons OP mentioned. I think the problem is when education is turned into business. When there's money to be made, certifications and qualifications are valued over students' learning process. Why teach students to be self-sufficient, when you can burden them with work and charge them for thousands of dollars for certificates.

Further, all education should be public, and free. Private schools are a slap in the face of what education is all about. Highly educated citizens benefit (decreased crime rates, less violence, more innovation, etc) nation, so it should be nation's responsibility to educate them.

Studying should not be hard work. It should not be expensive. It should not be a prerequisite for a job. It should be passionate.

i think your socialist views are most likely to die in the upcoming years but it s a great pov

 

[Coriolis]

The professional occupations mentioned DO require "apprenticeships": doctors must complete their residency, lawyers must complete a period of articling, etc.

Many medical professions are substituting increased formal schooling for such practical experience, even for those who have been practicing successfully for years. My SO's sister, for instance, is an audiologist, and after working in her field for over 10 years and being certified in three states, she was requied to get another advanced degree in audiology to keep her certifications. She took the path of least resistance, online through one of those for-profit "universities". Same applies for teachers, computer technicians, and probably many more careers I don't even know about, that used to rely much more on apprenticeship-style or on-the-job training.

 

[jixmixfix]

i think your socialist views are most likely to die in the upcoming years but it s a great pov

Die? they never even existed outside of theory.

 

[jixmixfix]

[MENTION=7278]jixmixfix[/MENTION] has a point, though. Plus if you want to continue school, you have to really focus on achieving a high GPA and having great extracurriculars. There is no room for screw-ups.

Undergrad is not fun for me.

undergrad = money maker.

 

[Scheherezade]

Die? they never even existed outside of theory.

would you care to explain the above? please feel free to contradict me if you so feel the need

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

Life is too short and precious to be wasted in school.

 

[Mole]

Canberra is a university city and we have large numbers of paying students from China and India.

This is no surprise as China and India are industrialising and need literate individuals.

And our education system is geared to produce literate individuals.

Oz though has moved from an industrial economy to a service economy so we are producing tech savvy tribalists for the electric economy.