[ESTJ] What do you think of ESTJs?

[Venom]

Watch my video!!!!

donde esta` esto?

 

[wildcat]

I've starting to believe that ESTJs are inredeemable and ignorant, with visionless agendas of what they believe is stability, a stability that can only be achieved through emulating what there fathers before them have done, but in doing so they close themselves off to so much... They see nothing wrong with this, but here's the shitty part, They expect every one else to live by there rigid idea of "How things are," because what's right for them is obviously right for every one else.

I don't know if that's right or not, but that's how I see them, and if it's right or not, I don't wish to go through life with such a negative view of a type of person.

My mom is ESTJ, and physically I could never ask for a better one. I've never gone a night hungry, and have always had a place to sleep. She takes care of all of the things I would never have the patience to do. She is however and I say this with all the respect in the world to my mother, emotionally retarded, I've never once felt close to her, as if there is a wall made of bullet proof glass seperating us. We can see each other, but we will never touch.

God I hate life right now.

An aside: Meatbot your avatar is gross.

The love of the ESTJs is expressed in practical things.
Not in philosophy.

Your mother does what she can.
So do you.
Love her in return.

 

[miss fortune]

I've probably said it before in this thread, but it was near the beginning of this thread and many bad things have been said about ESTJs since....


ESTJs are awesome! My best friend is an ESTJ and it's because of her that our friendship hasn't faded over time- she's always good at remembering to keep in touch with me, send presents, make plans to have a one week layover to visit me when traveling and randomly send texts during long, boring days. She likes to learn new things, but approaches it like a general might approach the enemy, which always makes me giggle, but it works for her. You never have to wonder for two seconds what she's thinking, because you'll know, though she's put effort into being somewhat less blunt about what she says. She's always there to help out a friend and is great to exchange recipes and movie reviews with!

I have some ESTJ family members who have made a point of always being there to help out as well- people who may be bluntly honest, but you could depend on them for anything. I've got to appreciate that in people since so few people are good at being good friends it seems

 

[EJCC]

donde esta` esto?

Aqui!

 

[rogue1]

I've been thinking about this, and I have a wonderment. (Someone probably already thought this, but I'm taking credit for it anyways )

Could it be that the negative experiences people have had with ESTJ type people are routed in frustration and miscommunication dependant on what values or ideas that specific ESTJ was consistent to?

As ESTJ who is of an older generation, and still carries those values would definitely clash against even an ESTJ of a different culture or generation soley based on what they valued.

My Music Friend ESTJ was raised in a religious and very wealthy family. He values being able to do whatever he wants, when he wants it and always having the best. He also values the religious morals he was raised with, and while compassionate and empathetic, he cannot accept people who live outside of those defined lines.

My Kickass Brother ESTJ was raised by my Kickass Mother INTJ and Kickass Father ESTJ. He has a mind like a vault, an astounding memory and an enormous heart, much like my Music Friend ESTJ. My Brother, however, sticks to the morals (fiercely) he and I grew up with which are different.

My School Friend ESTJ is gifted in many ways, and could probably take over the world, but she values starting a family young (like her parents). She is married to a sweetheart INFJ guy (they are beyond funny together) and they have 5 months left for the baby to cook in the womb before it's time to take it out.

Once they value something, I think these people want to stick to it. Not huge fans of taking risk with themselves or the ones they love. The ESTJ's can't be defined by what the value, only how they value it. Picking up what I'm putting down?

I've probably said it before in this thread, but it was near the beginning of this thread and many bad things have been said about ESTJs since....


ESTJs are awesome! My best friend is an ESTJ and it's because of her that our friendship hasn't faded over time- she's always good at remembering to keep in touch with me, send presents, make plans to have a one week layover to visit me when traveling and randomly send texts during long, boring days. She likes to learn new things, but approaches it like a general might approach the enemy, which always makes me giggle, but it works for her. You never have to wonder for two seconds what she's thinking, because you'll know, though she's put effort into being somewhat less blunt about what she says. She's always there to help out a friend and is great to exchange recipes and movie reviews with!

I have some ESTJ family members who have made a point of always being there to help out as well- people who may be bluntly honest, but you could depend on them for anything. I've got to appreciate that in people since so few people are good at being good friends it seems

This has been my experience with the ESTJ type, and it is why I value them too. If I voice my opinion in a no nonsense sort of way, every one of them has made some sort of effort to grow into something better or change something in my presence.

 

[mwv6r]

...In general, though, the bad sides of an ESTJ tend to be more immediately obvious with direct effects on people than for most other types. The stereotypical bad side of an ESTJ is bossy, over involved in other people's business, hard to get rid of, hard to convince, and a general pain in the ass to people near them. Compare to a stereotypical bad ENTP, who might be annoyingly talky but can be avoided more easily, or a stereotypical bad INxP, who will procrastinate and not finish stuff, but won't be injecting themselves into other people's business, and are easier to keep away.

I agree with this. Because of their strong extroversion, unhealthy ESxJ types can be very domineering.

More so than any other type, I find that I really, really admire healthy ESTJs, but really can't stand unhealthy ESTJs. The healthy ones are energetic, charming, hardworking, sincere, well-intentioned, and while still self-confident, they have an understanding of their weaknesses, which lends some humility to their personalities and enables them to adequately control that shadow Fi. These ESTJs are very impressive people who are able to be extremely productive and efficient, fully enjoy life, and appreciate and care for the people around them.

The unhealthy ESTJs are similarly energetic, charming, and hardworking, but instead of being sincere and well-intentioned they are narcissistic and manipulative and seem to have zero control over their shadow Fi, making them unstable, mean, self-centered, and generally unpleasant to be around.

 

[Unkindloving]

I've dealt with two ESTJ males.
On the surface, it was all a lot of fun and focus... as long as they were in the spotlight. These were not people that were okay with others having personalities of their own. Any concept or goal that strayed from being "black or white" was immediately debased. Both of them were extremely self-centered. They were the best and that was that. If they couldn't do something, the something they couldn't do was at fault as opposed to them being at fault.

I'll just hope that the majority of what i witnessed was unhealthy or that the clash between them and my ENFJ self is just such an immense one, while other cases are tame.

 

[Fidelia]

I agree with this. Because of their strong extroversion, unhealthy ESxJ types can be very domineering.

More so than any other type, I find that I really, really admire healthy ESTJs, but really can't stand unhealthy ESTJs. The healthy ones are energetic, charming, hardworking, sincere, well-intentioned, and while still self-confident, they have an understanding of their weaknesses, which lends some humility to their personalities and enables them to adequately control that shadow Fi. These ESTJs are very impressive people who are able to be extremely productive and efficient, fully enjoy life, and appreciate and care for the people around them.

The unhealthy ESTJs are similarly energetic, charming, and hardworking, but instead of being sincere and well-intentioned they are narcissistic and manipulative and seem to have zero control over their shadow Fi, making them unstable, mean, self-centered, and generally unpleasant to be around.

I agree with this. I think what many people are describing when they talk about ESTJs are unhealthy examples. Because ESTJs can be fairly influential and also tend to be in positions of power, more people are affected than they are by many other personalities.

 

[highlander]

I get along with them pretty well. They're logical. They are up front with what they think. Even when they are a little unbalanced, I seem to get along with well.

The biggest conflict I have had with ESTJs is that they tend to jump to conclusions on tiny shreds of "evidence". Since my leading function is Ni which gathers a ton of information before coming to a conclusion, this can cause major disagreements.

Yes, biggest source of conflict. I confront them on it and push as far as prudent in the situation. When they are doing this, they are sometimes in an "emotional state". If you give them time to calm down, they get more rational.

My view on the personality:

Extremely structured (anything outside their view is ready for the rod)
Supreme delegates (although lacking insight into those they control)
Attention whores (crave it for survival)
Hypocrites (absolutely no introspection or acknowledgement of self)
Butt lickers

Ok. Those views are a bit critical. Let me state some positive aspects...

Fantastic social skills
Second to none on covering their ass
Mad dogs (shredding everything in their path even those they love)
Concerned (to excessive degrees)
Great with details (every little one - blah blah blah)
Complete understanding of social norms (anything other... forget it - not happening!)

I've also worked closely with a co-worker for the past eight years (it's took us that long to appreciate our differences). She's awesome and she'll manage any business plans I have. Love all you guys!

Maybe the above are pretty much true. Still I like em.

 

[JoSunshine]

My father is an unhealthy ESTJ and he embodies all of the negative aspects described here: egocentric, mean-spirited, tyrannical, unsympathetic, etc. If he does something "nice" there is generally something in it for him, most often some sort of recognition or leverage. Now that he is older, he has mellowed quite a bit, but when he was younger....whew...look out!

That being said, I have a female ESTJ friend. She is pleasant, reliable and a very good person. She has very strong opinions, but will also let people have opposing opinions without loosing her s**t on them. She is definitely one of the "good guys" in my book.

 

[EJCC]

Revived this thread while trying to post samples from it to the How Not To Do Typology thread. Did not mean to revive it! It should not be revived!!!

Carry on, carry on, nothing to see here!

 

[Jaguar]

I met a female ESTJ who willingly joined the military, and we had a discussion about her choice to do that.
I told her a bit about myself, then she told me if I were in the military, they wouldn't have killed me—they would have just thrown me out for insubordination.

 

[EJCC]

I met a female ESTJ who willingly joined the military, and we had a discussion about her choice to do that.
I told her a bit about myself, then she told me if I were in the military, they wouldn't have killed me—they would have just thrown me out for insubordination.

Probably. Either that, or promoted you!

 

[RaptorWizard]

Hate their guts.

Why Within? What's your problem with the great and powerful ESTJ overlords? You must just resent them because they have higher positions in the heirarchy of greatness!

Gosh, all of you INTJs are the same, so dang egocentric, thinking you're better than everyone, getting titles like the alimighty Mastermind and such, and wait, what are the ESTJs, the Supervisors - that's nice, pretty cool, amazingly unique, I guess...

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I like ESTJ's.

 

[Qre:us]

My dad and one of my closest friends are both ESTJ.

I like them for their dependability, for getting shit done (SUCH a help, for a P - I just have to brainstorm an idea of what I want accomplished, and they've helped me lay out a practical, efficient plan to achieve it), for their bluntness (which can be HILARIOUS sometimes), they're hella funny and sarcastic when making observations about the world around them, they tell you like it is, no sugar-coating, if you dropped the ball in a situation and now are grumbling about your fate, they'll point it out (a fresh does of reality), and for the way they care about you (they take care of you in the most practical of ways). If they can do something for you, whether you're a stranger or not, and it doesn't cost them anything (literal and metaphorical), they'll do it. Without a second thought. No nonsense. Always have to be busy - doing something! Always calculating for efficiency, especially with the motto, "X is money". A casual meet-up with friends located at various different areas becomes a plan, of calculating permutations and combinations of distance from the location of the various friends to the meet-up location, to figure out the most efficient carpool solution. Even if someone does not want to carpool, my ESTJ friend is at a loss at why the person would reject their solution, why they would not just take their suggestion to carpool with X, Y, and Z, as otherwise, they're wasting gas. LOL. It's cute. My ESTJ friend (like my ESFJ friend) is really good at remembering what someone wanted or needed (my ESTJ friend will store info as something someone needed/or a problem someone had, and if they come across a product that could help solve that - and it's at a good discount, she'll buy it for them! With the expectation that it's not a gift, they'll pay her back, while the ESFJ will just "gift" it).


Where we flow swimmingly:
- Ne! They may not get some of the more layered connections I make, or think it too obscure, but, I love their brand of Ne. It's hilarious.
- logical

Where we clash:

- thinks that I can be thinking too "unclearly"/too convoluted (I see their point), they want me to stop complicating/intellectualizing/theorizing, and basically.....get to the point.
- clash of the P/J
I irritate them, they irritate me. It's sometimes exhausting.

It irritates them how I approach some parts of my life (poor guys can't help but "help" me, grumbling at the fact that I'm facing what I'm facing because I leave things to the last minute). E.g., night before a rather long vacation/trip that would have us on a tight itinerary, I started to pack. My ESTJ friend, who has been packed a month in advance, had told me that under no circumstance, is she picking up my phone calls at the 11th hr, panicked because I've realized I didn't account for something and now need her help. NO WAY! She's screening my calls. Inevitably, I call and with a resigned sigh she tells me she has that item, but refuses to let me borrow it, because I should have prepared earlier. Only to call back a few minutes later, and tell me to hurry with the rest of the packing because she's "got it". She has packed that item, on my behalf. LOL.
* They irritate me when things don't go according to plan, their knee-jerk reaction is to DO SOMETHING (which translates into trying EVERYTHING, hoping ONE will be a hit, whereas, I am more considering, contemplate, calmer in unexpected high panic situations). I could suggest something that I'm pretty damn sure will work out, but they can't trust it. They have to be tangibly trying to solve the problem, this way and that, and back to this way again, until the problem is actually solved. Otherwise, it panics them to just sit around and "do nothing" (and it's like watching a dog chase its tail around in a circle). And in the end, what I originally suggested works out, but by then, they've exhausted themselves, and me.
* Can be bossy/tell you what needs to get done. This is a positive and a negative. Sometimes, I want them to just take the reins and plan it all and I'm happy to follow. Then, there are other times, when I want to take the lead, and they will pipe in to micro-manage. When I push back, they feel it, and get hurt by the way I push back (which might be a bit too mean/jerky/turning the game back on them to force submission). But, it's all good. They don't/can't seem to, hold a grudge against those they truly care for, not for long.
* Can be too rigid about exploring new things unless it somehow ties into something they are already familiar with/know they will like. But, it's not hard convincing her of a connection to something she's already familiar. with. *evil cackle* She is game for most anything, except is a chicken-puss when it comes to things that are adrenaline-rush in nature (this is more her, than ESTJ, I'm sure)

My ESTJ friend always answers her calls as, "Talk to me..." Lolz!
She has taken the MITB test (this is after 7 different times telling her what it is.......M...B...T...I). She really doesn't have much interest in this and would roll her eyes at the fact I'm on such a forum, when I could be refreshing my browser page every two seconds, buying something/winning the bid, for an item off ebay for $2 from China!!! Lolz!

 

[Showbread]

My dad is an ESTJ and I often feel that we are extremely similar, but at the same time so very different. Harsh is word that comes to mind. Harsh, narrow minded, and driven. And conservative. So very conservative, politically, religiously, etc. He can be insensitive, and self-focused.

Positively, he is great leader and very well respected by his employees. He definitely has a lot of integrity.

 

[Sakedon]

Also an ESFJ with an ESTJ father, I agree a lot with what Showbread says. I feel like on some aspects I could be mini-him. (In fact he sometimes affectionately calls me, "mini me") I understand his frustrations, tempers, we hold similar values, morals, traditions and yet when we're opposite on something - we'll both scream and argue until we're blue in the face and the house is awkward for days. Harsh is something I agree to. Demanding, high expectations, perfectionist, insensitive, goal and project driven. Great leader, very sociable and respected by friends and coworkers.