Trump vs. Biden

[Polaris]

Getting to watch Trump's meltdown is going to be like an early Christmas present.

 

[Lexicon]

 

[Mad Hatter]

Time to celebrate, but not to gloat. After all, there's over 70 million people out there who didn't get their will. They won't disappear after the election. Some of them are fucking idiots of course, but with those numbers, they can't all be. I hope Biden will be able to win back some of the good people even if they didn't vote for him. No time for payback, but for paying it forward.

Edit: only saw the above post after writing this. The White House needs a padded cell with a tray of cheeseburgers and a decoy mobile phone. Jeezuz... 🙄 He just can't stop winning, even if he does.

 

[Mind Maverick]

 

[Virtual ghost]

I will only add that here in all media "Biden won" seems to be the first news.


Hopefully this will be the beginning of new era in pretty much all aspects.

 

[Mind Maverick]

 

[Totenkindly]

Time to celebrate, but not to gloat. After all, there's over 70 million people out there who didn't get their will. They won't disappear after the election. Some of them are fucking idiots of course, but with those numbers, they can't all be. I hope Biden will be able to win back some of the good people even if they didn't vote for him. No time for payback, but for paying it forward.

Edit: only saw the above post after writing this. The White House needs a padded cell with a tray of cheeseburgers and a decoy mobile phone. Jeezuz... 🙄 He just can't stop winning, even if he does.

It's kind of a tough call on how to approach it.

1. Yes, you want to win over who you can win over, and get what consensus you can.
2. No, many of these people are not going to be won over, and you can't waste your time obsessing with the people who will never be won over / will undermine you regardless.
3. You can't just pretend a lot of the awful shit that was done didn't happen and wouldn't happen again if certain people would get power. For any kind of reconciliation, abusers need to be removed from positions of power.

To wit...from Republican Jennifer Rubin
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...t-forgiving-forgetting-post-election-america/

There has been much discussion about the need for healing and reconciliation once the vote-counting is complete and results certified. That’s a reasonable goal after a hard-fought election in polarized times. Our democracy cannot function when we constantly battle to eradicate and delegitimize the other side. Nevertheless, we fall into the trap of moral equivalence when we pretend the past four years have merely been a fight between two extreme parties, equally responsible for rancor and tribalism.

Only one party has assaulted democracy, intentionally fanned ludicrous conspiracy theories, rationalized racism and xenophobia, and attacked objective reality. It is Republican officials who engaged in or enabled impeachable conduct and broke professional and constitutional oaths. It is Republican politicians, pundits, activists and operatives who compulsively lied and damaged our body politic. Right-wing outlets spread Russian disinformation and created a parallel political universe to deceive their audience, even if they knew at some level it was untrue. They insisted that Ukraine had interfered with our election, that covid-19 was like the flu, that voting fraud was prevalent and that President Barack Obama had spied on President Trump. They have never recanted these damaging falsehoods, nor have they shown any sign of changing course in their quest to distort reality and sow discord.

We are told not to regard our political opponents as mendacious and malicious, but when one side really has behaved in politically and morally repugnant ways and does not change its behavior, I for one am not ready to forgive, let alone forget.

Likewise, I am not willing to let Republican politicians and officeholders — whether they are silent go-alongers such as Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) or active accomplices such as Attorney General William P. Barr — off the hook. It is for this reason that I think every Republican on the ballot who has stuck by Trump and Trumpism should be forced out of power and never again trusted with political power.

We do not, however, need to carry around the weight of the past four years indefinitely. There is a way to release anger and to conduct the business of the country.

First, those officials, politicians, activists and media figures who have done wrong must admit their transgressions and renounce past behavior. Reconciliation is not possible unless both sides acknowledge what has occurred. Truth is a necessary element of reconciliation; otherwise, amnesia breeds injustice and evades accountability, a critical element in democracy. Those who have broken the law (e.g., by perjuring themselves) or violated professional standards must be held accountable. Dishonest media outlets should be repudiated or ignored.

We should continue with clear eyes in successive elections to clean house of those who have forfeited moral authority to hold power. Shun, ignore, vote them out. But do not use up emotional energy inveighing that they never confessed their wrongs.

Second, we need to distinguish between that group of malefactors and ordinary Americans — our neighbors, our friends, our work colleagues. They might have made poor judgments and even voiced hateful views, but they do not cease to be our fellow citizens. Some have already come around since they voted for Trump in 2016; others might quietly realize Trump is a fraud. But they remain in the body politic, and it is those people with whom we must seek common ground. If their complaints are genuine (not disguised excuses for White grievance) and they are willing to operate in the shared reality of objective facts, we should listen, empathize and try to engage with them.

And finally, let’s not forget that we have lives and relationships outside of politics. If Trump is defeated, we will succeed in recapturing our non-political lives, enjoying the luxury to ignore social media for hours (and even days!) on end without being drawn back in by some political scandal. It is in that non-political space — which now seems as much a part of a bygone era as going to the movies and hugging friends — that we can enjoy the company and fellowship of Americans regardless of their political viewpoints.

I'm not much for "gloating" either, long term it does not help; on the other hand, if someone who was being abused suddenly sees their abuser and his supporters (who have been entirely unsympathetic and abusive themselves) go down because of their own pride and abuses, I'm willing to cut a little slack up front. Let's be realistic here, give it time to play itself out.

 

[Lark]

Time to celebrate, but not to gloat. After all, there's over 70 million people out there who didn't get their will. They won't disappear after the election. Some of them are fucking idiots of course, but with those numbers, they can't all be. I hope Biden will be able to win back some of the good people even if they didn't vote for him. No time for payback, but for paying it forward.

Edit: only saw the above post after writing this. The White House needs a padded cell with a tray of cheeseburgers and a decoy mobile phone. Jeezuz... 🙄 He just can't stop winning, even if he does.

Hard to know what they wanted when they voted for Trump to be honest.

 

[Mind Maverick]

edit: I should add that the sentence structure is way too balanced, especially the last line, to have been written by him.

 

[Stigmata]

 

[Mad Hatter]

It's kind of a tough call on how to approach it. 1. Yes, you want to win over who you can win over, and get what consensus you can. 2. No, many of these people are not going to be won over, and you can't waste your time obsessing with the people who will never be won over / will undermine you regardless. 3. You can't just pretend a lot of the awful shit that was done didn't happen and wouldn't happen again if certain people would get power. For any kind of reconciliation, abusers need to be removed from positions of power. To wit...from Republican Jennifer Rubin https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...t-forgiving-forgetting-post-election-america/

There has been much discussion about the need for healing and reconciliation once the vote-counting is complete and results certified. That's a reasonable goal after a hard-fought election in polarized times. Our democracy cannot function when we constantly battle to eradicate and delegitimize the other side. Nevertheless, we fall into the trap of moral equivalence when we pretend the past four years have merely been a fight between two extreme parties, equally responsible for rancor and tribalism. Only one party has assaulted democracy, intentionally fanned ludicrous conspiracy theories, rationalized racism and xenophobia, and attacked objective reality. It is Republican officials who engaged in or enabled impeachable conduct and broke professional and constitutional oaths. It is Republican politicians, pundits, activists and operatives who compulsively lied and damaged our body politic. Right-wing outlets spread Russian disinformation and created a parallel political universe to deceive their audience, even if they knew at some level it was untrue. They insisted that Ukraine had interfered with our election, that covid-19 was like the flu, that voting fraud was prevalent and that President Barack Obama had spied on President Trump. They have never recanted these damaging falsehoods, nor have they shown any sign of changing course in their quest to distort reality and sow discord. We are told not to regard our political opponents as mendacious and malicious, but when one side really has behaved in politically and morally repugnant ways and does not change its behavior, I for one am not ready to forgive, let alone forget. Likewise, I am not willing to let Republican politicians and officeholders — whether they are silent go-alongers such as Sen. Rob Portman (R-Ohio) or active accomplices such as Attorney General William P. Barr — off the hook. It is for this reason that I think every Republican on the ballot who has stuck by Trump and Trumpism should be forced out of power and never again trusted with political power. We do not, however, need to carry around the weight of the past four years indefinitely. There is a way to release anger and to conduct the business of the country. First, those officials, politicians, activists and media figures who have done wrong must admit their transgressions and renounce past behavior. Reconciliation is not possible unless both sides acknowledge what has occurred. Truth is a necessary element of reconciliation; otherwise, amnesia breeds injustice and evades accountability, a critical element in democracy. Those who have broken the law (e.g., by perjuring themselves) or violated professional standards must be held accountable. Dishonest media outlets should be repudiated or ignored. We should continue with clear eyes in successive elections to clean house of those who have forfeited moral authority to hold power. Shun, ignore, vote them out. But do not use up emotional energy inveighing that they never confessed their wrongs. Second, we need to distinguish between that group of malefactors and ordinary Americans — our neighbors, our friends, our work colleagues. They might have made poor judgments and even voiced hateful views, but they do not cease to be our fellow citizens. Some have already come around since they voted for Trump in 2016; others might quietly realize Trump is a fraud. But they remain in the body politic, and it is those people with whom we must seek common ground. If their complaints are genuine (not disguised excuses for White grievance) and they are willing to operate in the shared reality of objective facts, we should listen, empathize and try to engage with them. And finally, let's not forget that we have lives and relationships outside of politics. If Trump is defeated, we will succeed in recapturing our non-political lives, enjoying the luxury to ignore social media for hours (and even days!) on end without being drawn back in by some political scandal. It is in that non-political space — which now seems as much a part of a bygone era as going to the movies and hugging friends — that we can enjoy the company and fellowship of Americans regardless of their political viewpoints.

It is definitely going to be tough. With all this shit about the deep state Trump has been going on about these past years, he's managed to ingrained himself pretty heavily within the system (federal judges, electoral districts etc.) If the Dems don't manage to win the Senate, undoing the damage will be very unlikely since I think that the GOP will not want to give up their structural advantages. All he will be able to calm the public atmosphere domestically and maybe get the US out of Russia's ass.

 

[Dreamer]

We need actual change in this country, we need action to happen. Do I see that under a Biden presidency? Sadly no. It’s going to be a lame duck presidency for the next two years in the least since the Republicans still hold the senate, ACB grants a lean towards the right in the courts, and now, with a smaller majority in the House for the Democrats, this is a milk toast stalemate.

The removal of Trump from office might be reason enough for many to celebrate, but eh, I see the next four years as one of the most boring presidencies for a while. That in itself might be a good thing compared to what 2020 was like, but do I foresee any actual positive changes to come for the lower class or minorities under Biden? Nope. Like clockwork, these issues only get raised every four years when election comes around, then it’s back to status quo and politicians getting rich through back room deals and the American public seeing none of that gain.

I hope to be proven wrong and maybe I’m just a pessimist, but I’ve lost faith. I’m resigning to the corporate/globalist machine and propaganda. Time to get my bug out van and move on in attempt to find the remaining good-natured people I know, still exist. Too bad they aren’t in power.

 

[Mind Maverick]

 

[Mind Maverick]

[MENTION=8444]Mad Hatter[/MENTION] don't worry, Trump will make enough of a fool of himself to make people embarrassed to support him once he has his tantrum.

 

[Totenkindly]

I'm not particularly hopeful about any pervasive meaningful change, without a unified government.

I was looking at this election as simply putting on the brakes of our downward spiral. Leaving him in office for four more years, based on what he is done so far even after being impeached (where he just punished those who went after him), with no reason to court any kind of vote or accountability, and with lots of enemies to pay back.... and four more years to erode whatever structure remained... well, that would have been that. The building is heavily damaged; another terms would have just been soaking it all down in gas and throwing on the torch.

So yeah, obviously a lot hinges on the GA senate run-offs but also considering what can actually be done without holding all the reins.


[MENTION=36353]Aerix[/MENTION]: We all know Trump promised he'd leave the country... but we know he's a liar and just won't. lol.
Well, unless he is actually threatened with real jail or something.

 

[Stigmata]

With everything that became public regarding Trump's administration, just imagine all the things that are going to be uncovered once the new regime gets in.

 

[Totenkindly]

With everything that became public regarding Trump's administration, just imagine all the things that are going to be uncovered once the new regime gets in.

Hopeful that once they can't be beholden to him (and with all the prior leaks), there's gonna be a lot more loose tongues about things that were going on. People will want to save themselves, and quid pro quo arrangements don't work when you have nothing to offer.

 

[Nicodemus]

With everything that became public regarding Trump's administration, just imagine all the things that are going to be uncovered once the new regime gets in.

Here's hoping for video footage of his private meltdowns during the last couple of days.

 

[The Cat]

We need actual change in this country, we need action to happen. Do I see that under a Biden presidency? Sadly no. It’s going to be a lame duck presidency for the next two years in the least since the Republicans still hold the senate, ACB grants a lean towards the right in the courts, and now, with a smaller majority in the House for the Democrats, this is a milk toast stalemate.

The removal of Trump from office might be reason enough for many to celebrate, but eh, I see the next four years as one of the most boring presidencies for a while. That in itself might be a good thing compared to what 2020 was like, but do I foresee any actual positive changes to come for the lower class or minorities under Biden? Nope. Like clockwork, these issues only get raised every four years when election comes around, then it’s back to status quo and politicians getting rich through back room deals and the American public seeing none of that gain.

I hope to be proven wrong and maybe I’m just a pessimist, but I’ve lost faith. I’m resigning to the corporate/globalist machine and propaganda. Time to get my bug out van and move on in attempt to find the remaining good-natured people I know, still exist. Too bad they aren’t in power.

That's why its up to us to get involved with each other on the community level, and beyond that getting involved to make sure the people who dont represent us get voted out and replaced with people who do. Theres always going to be folks who can be duped into voting against their own interests, and the best way to defeat that is to work towards it with the people around you.

 

[Mad Hatter]

Honestly I expect more of a Nixon - Ford kind of routine in the wake of this election. Not quite comparable in a lot of ways to be sure, but spirits seem to be much more heated these days. What I'm saying is that getting back at Trump, as understandable as the desire might be, probably will not be a high priority.