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The Random Spiritual Thought Thread

Red Memories

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This might be a dead end conversation because I don't believe there is right or wrong, just different perspectives.

But there's a sort of...flaw in that...although I am sure rapists and murderers of innocent grandmas might like to say their perspective is...correct...but the victims will strongly disagree.

I do think there is an objective right or wrong on certain things, but again, sin isn't so black and white. Like a child who steals food from a store but is homeless. It really isn't "sinful" at this rate to "steal" something. But this may be what you mean by "different perspectives"?
 

GoggleGirl17

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But there's a sort of...flaw in that...although I am sure rapists and murderers of innocent grandmas might like to say their perspective is...correct...but the victims will strongly disagree.

I do think there is an objective right or wrong on certain things, but again, sin isn't so black and white. Like a child who steals food from a store but is homeless. It really isn't "sinful" at this rate to "steal" something. But this may be what you mean by "different perspectives"?

Sorry, I don't agree. Who you are willing to sympathize or not sympathize with just shows the limits of your compassion. Infinite love does not have this bias. If you were born as somebody else and had their experience, it would make perfect sense why they do the things they do.
 

Red Memories

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Sorry, I don't agree. Who you are willing to sympathize or not sympathize with just shows the limits of your compassion. Infinite love does not have this bias. If you were born as somebody else and had their experience, it would make perfect sense why they do the things they do.

I think you can have compassion for the situation which may create that experience but find it completely awful and horrible to do at the same time.

I am aware what sort of chaotic childhood may have led to my predator being who he was. But that does NOT make what he did to me okay in any way and I refuse to validate anything that he did as okay. So yes, I suppose there's a "line". But one I hope any person should have, so they do not have to face abuse.

Your negative experiences are no excuse for you to rape, kill, or harm other innocent people. I suppose this is why this conversation is a wall.

Agree to disagree.
 

GoggleGirl17

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I think you can have compassion for the situation which may create that experience but find it completely awful and horrible to do at the same time.

I am aware what sort of chaotic childhood may have led to my predator being who he was. But that does NOT make what he did to me okay in any way and I refuse to validate anything that he did as okay. So yes, I suppose there's a "line". But one I hope any person should have, so they do not have to face abuse.

Your negative experiences are no excuse for you to rape, kill, or harm other innocent people. I suppose this is why this conversation is a wall.

Agree to disagree.

Who says it's not ok? You or love? Whatever arises from God, even suffering, is love because love is allowing and accepting. If this were not the case, then how cruel it was of God to have animals be required to kill each other to survive. What you're referring to is attachment.
 

Red Memories

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Who says it's not ok? You or love? Whatever arises from God, even suffering, is love because love is allowing and accepting. If this were not the case, then how cruel it was of God to have animals be required to kill each other to survive.

This is not the same thing. I am not required to kill you to survive. Now if you try to kill me I suppose I could kill you to defend myself and survive and yes this would not be the same either. Many animals are put into a complex ecosystem which balances itself through these things. We as humans are not required to kill each other for food. We are not required to rape people to survive. It is something people do, yes, but it is not necessary. My predator is surviving just fine without the ability to abuse me, although he enjoyed doing so.

There is a theological theory which discussed that God allows us to suffer so we may also feel happiness, so he does allow suffering to exist. Nevertheless, in a perfect world, people would not do these needless acts which hurt other people. In a perfect world, maybe animals wouldn't each other. But we do not live in a perfect world.

But this may be something I am going to have trouble even following because this is very personal at this point. I faced emotional abuse from a sexual predator from 12 years to 16 and I am sorry but it is pretty difficult for me to even fathom defending him on a whole basis. As said, I can have compassion for what likely created such situations, but I cannot under any circumstance suggest a grown ass man fucking over the feelings of a young girl and ruining her ability to trust is "okay" in some perspective of perfect love. And if that makes me "uncompassionate" I'm not sure that kind of compassion you're speaking of is even healthy. That sounds to me like you would enable him and that isn't good for either of you.
 

GoggleGirl17

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This is not the same thing. I am not required to kill you to survive. Now if you try to kill me I suppose I could kill you to defend myself and survive and yes this would not be the same either. Many animals are put into a complex ecosystem which balances itself through these things. We as humans are not required to kill each other for food. We are not required to rape people to survive. It is something people do, yes, but it is not necessary. My predator is surviving just fine without the ability to abuse me, although he enjoyed doing so.

There is a theological theory which discussed that God allows us to suffer so we may also feel happiness, so he does allow suffering to exist. Nevertheless, in a perfect world, people would not do these needless acts which hurt other people. In a perfect world, maybe animals wouldn't each other. But we do not live in a perfect world.

But this may be something I am going to have trouble even following because this is very personal at this point. I faced emotional abuse from a sexual predator from 12 years to 16 and I am sorry but it is pretty difficult for me to even fathom defending him on a whole basis. As said, I can have compassion for what likely created such situations, but I cannot under any circumstance suggest a grown ass man fucking over the feelings of a young girl and ruining her ability to trust is "okay" in some perspective of perfect love. And if that makes me "uncompassionate" I'm not sure that kind of compassion you're speaking of is even healthy. That sounds to me like you would enable him and that isn't good for either of you.

All I was saying is that suffering and happiness are relative to whose experience you're talking about. I don't know why you assume I was talking about how I feel about rapists and murderers, I was talking about the concept of infinite love. I think lack of love is the reason for all types of dysfunction in the world. I didn't mean to upset you girl, I'm sorry.
 

Red Memories

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All I was saying is that suffering and happiness are relative to who's experience you're talking about. I don't know why you assume I was talking how I feel about rapists and murderers, I was talking about the concept of infinite love. I think lack of love is the reason for all types of dysfunction in the world. I didn't mean to upset you girl, I'm sorry.

Okay...see this is why I felt okay I think I am making this toooooo personal. But in that essence I can agree. Many people go to do these sort of things from places of unlove. Many of them have stories of broken, chaotic families. I suppose my sense was, you don't want to become the monster you hate. Hence I said it isn't okay that just because you were unloved to go on treating the rest of the world unlovingly. If that makes sense. I am also terrible at debating and keeping my emotions out of stuff. XD but thank you for not getting short with me.
 

Firebird 8118

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Sorry, I don't agree. Who you are willing to sympathize or not sympathize with just shows the limits of your compassion. Infinite love does not have this bias. If you were born as somebody else and had their experience, it would make perfect sense why they do the things they do.

I actually disagree here. For example, it does a disservice to both an attacker and their victim for the victim to be forgiving and “let things slide”. To the attacker, it implies that their actions are acceptable; to the victim, it implies that they deserve to go through the same experience in future interactions.

You can forgive someone without agreeing with them or even allowing them into your life. Being kind includes being kind to yourself. It’s just as limiting to accept less for yourself as it is to push someone away, if not more so.
 

GoggleGirl17

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I actually disagree here. For example, it does a disservice to both an attacker and their victim for the victim to be forgiving and “let things slide”. To the attacker, it implies that their actions are acceptable; to the victim, it implies that they deserve to go through the same experience in future interactions.

You can forgive someone without agreeing with them or even allowing them into your life. Being kind includes being kind to yourself. It’s just as limiting to accept less for yourself as it is to push someone away, if not more so.

I was not talking about this from a subjective human perspective, sorry if that was not clear. What I'm trying to say is that every problem stems from a problem, which stems from a deeper societal problem, and so on. All of these problems are a consequence of a lack of love. Humans are not God in this way. Infinite love is not something that can be achieved on an individual basis, because we run into dilemmas like these. I'm saying that to avoid dysfunctional human behavior and suffering in the first place, we need to address the root, which is not a victim letting something an attacker did to them go. It is something that requires a collective shift in consciousness and how we treat each other.
 

Firebird 8118

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I was not talking about this from a subjective human perspective, sorry if that was not clear. What I'm trying to say is that every problem stems from a problem, which stems from a deeper societal problem, and so on. All of these problems are a consequence of a lack of love. Humans are not God in this way. Infinite love is not something that can be achieved on an individual basis, because we run into dilemmas like these. I'm saying that to avoid dysfunctional human behavior and suffering in the first place, we need to address the root, which is not a victim letting something an attacker did to them go. It is something that requires a collective shift in consciousness and how we treat each other.

Aha, thanks for clearing that up :) this I can agree with.
 

Firebird 8118

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It wouldnt technically have to mean anything, nor just one thing.

Of course - nothing has any meaning save the meaning we give things.

But in the context of what I was saying there, it’s ridiculous for us to think that creating “imperfect” beings was the best that God could do. Yes, we’re limited in our understanding. But that doesn’t mean we’re imperfect. No life form is imperfect by design.
 

Firebird 8118

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Today I made my very first “manifestation elixir” - which is basically water charged with a person’s intentions (and optionally crystals) - in honor of the Great Conjunction. :) Let’s see how this turns out over time.
 

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[MENTION=26674]Norrsken[/MENTION] I believe that we aren’t here as part of some test or learning experience. I believe we’re here to fully experience ourselves as the spiritual beings we truly are - nothing more, nothing less. No matter what circumstances we face, no matter how powerless we may feel at times, we can rise above it all. And it’s not as difficult as we may think either, once we start to realize that we don’t have to go through it all alone. Because we are all connected... we are all one. That’s why having friends and/or family who love us for who we are has a HUGE impact on where we stand. :hug: :heart:

god i will protect u for the rest of my life

6ad93cb22641984da6ca3fb5293df69f.jpg
 

Infinite Metamorphosis

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I was not talking about this from a subjective human perspective, sorry if that was not clear. What I'm trying to say is that every problem stems from a problem, which stems from a deeper societal problem, and so on. All of these problems are a consequence of a lack of love.
Actually, a few looks into psychology/neurology prove that this statement is scientifically invalid.
 

Infinite Metamorphosis

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I personally see no need for spirituality in my life. There is nothing it could offer me that I am missing; or if there is, then there is nothing I couldn't gain without it just as easily.
 

Infinite Metamorphosis

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I suppose that what irks me about spirituality is that it's basically always just pure belief. There's not a solid reason to believe anything that is believed in. It's not concrete, scientific, or fact oriented. To me it looks like magical thinking and pulling ideas out of thin air.
 

Infinite Metamorphosis

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I think the most offensive thing we can say to God is that He created beings that are less than perfect. Which would mean that God is imperfect.

Prove me wrong, I dare you.
If no one can prove you wrong, does it prove you right? Or does it prove that none of this can be proven? Can you prove it to be right? Seeing as how the existence of a god can't be proven, how can anything else pertaining to them be? Thus, no offense / forgive my honesty (I mean no harm and am not saying this with any maliciousness or attitude), but this is an odd statement to me.
 

GoggleGirl17

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Actually, a few looks into psychology/neurology prove that this statement is scientifically invalid.

I'm not sure what you're referring to, so what you're saying doesn't make much sense to me, but go ahead and claim victory if that's what you're after, because I've lost interest and really don't feel like wasting any more of my energy on this.
 

Firebird 8118

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If no one can prove you wrong, does it prove you right? Or does it prove that none of this can be proven? Can you prove it to be right? Seeing as how the existence of a god can't be proven, how can anything else pertaining to them be? Thus, no offense / forgive my honesty (I mean no harm and am not saying this with any maliciousness or attitude), but this is an odd statement to me.

The last statement was more of a joke than any serious challenge, I apologize if it came across as otherwise lol :laugh:

Anyway, it’s not necessary for one to believe in a higher power for such a higher power to exist, imho. Most of my friends are atheists or agnostics - and it’s perfectly fine. I will say that certain experiences in my own personal life have been proof enough for me, but it doesn’t mean that anyone else has to believe in the existence of God/Divine consciousness.

In other words: you can choose to believe or not believe anything you want to, regardless of any proof or lack thereof. It’s all right. :)
 
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