The Murder of George Floyd & Subsequent Protests/Riots

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

More relevant than ever

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

You know, the mind blowing thing to me is that cops literally seem incapable of not doing this stuff. You'd think with all these protests and heat on them they could control themselves for a bit, but these things keep happening. It's made me much more sympathetic to real anarchist/libertarian positions again.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

You know, the mind blowing thing to me is that cops literally seem incapable of not doing this stuff. You'd think with all these protests and heat on them they could control themselves for a bit, but these things keep happening. It's made me much more sympathetic to real anarchist/libertarian positions again.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

It’s the culture itself that encourages that and punishes cops who speak out against misconduct. Cops often get fired for trying to report bad cops. Or they end up like Serpico. Most Modern police departments in the USA were formed around the 1800s to keep the working classes in line and thus protect the interests of the monied elites who lobbied for the formation of police forces in the first place. It’s a militarized long arm of the capitalist, statist ruling class. Solving crimes was never their primary reason for existence. So when I see so called libertarians defending the police, I question if they even understand libertarian philosophy. The existence of coercive, militant police forces goes against the non aggression principle, which is supposed to be core to libertarianism.

Libertarianism in the purest sense is actually a lot closer to the ideas of people like Marx and Kropotkin. It wasn’t meant to be a philosophy advocating survival of the fittest, it’s about volunteerism and being held accountable to the public, and about basic respect for individuals. It’s just in America that people like Ayn Rand totally distorted it into something different. And capitalists have co-opted libertarianism to distort it and misinterpret the NAP as being about protecting corporatists. Anarchocapitalism is an oxymoron and I don’t consider ancaps true libertarians, just cosplayers.

And anarchism has nothing to do with supporting chaos and lawlessness. It’s more like democracy in its purest form than what its critics think of it as being.

A good fictional example of a libertarian socialist or anarchist society might be Morgan’s group in season 5 of Fear The Walking Dead. All decision by committee, no one abandoned no matter how weak or sick, everyone is valuable and useful, just a matter of building a society where their usefulness can be tapped and appreciated. Respect for individual rights whilst also working for the greater good of the community. It’s interesting to me because that character Morgan follows the philosophy of Aikido. It resonated with me because part of what led me to learn about libertarian socialism was having studied and absorbed lessons of Taoism and reading books like The Way of Peace. Those are in essence about protecting all life and a live and let live philosophy

 

[The Cat]

It’s the culture itself that encourages that and punishes cops who speak out against misconduct. Cops often get fired for trying to report bad cops. Or they end up like Serpico. Most Modern police departments in the USA were formed around the 1800s to keep the working classes in line and thus protect the interests of the monied elites who lobbied for the formation of police forces in the first place. It’s a militarized long arm of the capitalist, statist ruling class. Solving crimes was never their primary reason for existence. So when I see so called libertarians defending the police, I question if they even understand libertarian philosophy. The existence of coercive, militant police forces goes against the non aggression principle, which is supposed to be core to libertarianism.

Libertarianism in the purest sense is actually a lot closer to the ideas of people like Marx and Kropotkin. It wasn’t meant to be a philosophy advocating survival of the fittest, it’s about volunteerism and being held accountable to the public, and about basic respect for individuals. It’s just in America that people like Ayn Rand totally distorted it into something different. And capitalists have co-opted libertarianism to distort it and misinterpret the NAP as being about protecting corporatists. Anarchocapitalism is an oxymoron and I don’t consider ancaps true libertarians, just cosplayers.

And anarchism has nothing to do with supporting chaos and lawlessness. It’s more like democracy in its purest form than what its critics think of it as being.

A good fictional example of a libertarian socialist or anarchist society might be Morgan’s group in season 5 of Fear The Walking Dead. All decision by committee, no one abandoned no matter how weak or sick, everyone is valuable and useful, just a matter of building a society where their usefulness can be tapped and appreciated. Respect for individual rights whilst also working for the greater good of the community. It’s interesting to me because that character Morgan follows the philosophy of Aikido. It resonated with me because part of what led me to learn about libertarian socialism was having studied and absorbed lessons of Taoism and reading books like The Way of Peace. Those are in essence about protecting all life and a live and let live philosophy

I'm pretty suresome "libertarians" are just Ron Swanson fans with a shaky grip on what satire is. 🤔

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I'm pretty suresome "libertarians" are just Ron Swanson fans with a shaky grip on what satire is. 🤔

Yeah and guys like tellenbach who continue to support Trump because “fuck the libs”. Guys who overlook corporate welfare and subsidies but freak out at the idea of public healthcare and public control of stuff like national parks

I’m actually a now trying to join the libertarian socialist caucus of the libertarian party. Who knew that was even a thing?!? But evidently one exists. I’d love to see a libertarian party in the USA that actually followed the core principles of the philosophy instead of continuing to be a club for people touched by books like Atlas Shrugged

 

[anticlimatic]

*cringe*

 

[Tellenbach]

Guys who overlook corporate welfare and subsidies but freak out at the idea of public healthcare and public control of stuff like national parks

I don't know a single libertarian who supported Obama's giveaways to green companies like Solyndra or any other corporate welfare. In fact, the Tea Party movement was formed as a result of the Wall Street bailouts. We don't like bailing out businesses that misbehaved and we don't think it's the government's job to play venture capitalist. Let the Shark Tank dudes do that shit.

Public healthcare is a stupid idea because it's too inefficient and expensive. We need serious healthcare reform starting with a listing of the prices of every medical service. I support the idea of tax free health care savings accounts. I support loser pays legal reform. One of the drivers of cost is defensive medicine because doctors over analyze patients for fear of being sued. If you want to improve healthcare, you need to restore the customer/business relationship between the patient/doctor. That means putting the money and power back in the hands of the patient and getting the government out of it.

If the government subsidized car repair, it'd cost $20,000 for an oil change because government bureaucrats are that incompetent, apathetic, and stupid.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I don't know a single libertarian who supported Obama's giveaways to green companies like Solyndra or any other corporate welfare. In fact, the Tea Party movement was formed as a result of the Wall Street bailouts. We don't like bailing out businesses that misbehaved and we don't think it's the government's job to play venture capitalist. Let the Shark Tank dudes do that shit.

Public healthcare is a stupid idea because it's too inefficient and expensive. We need serious healthcare reform starting with a listing of the prices of every medical service. I support the idea of tax free health care savings accounts. I support loser pays legal reform. One of the drivers of cost is defensive medicine because doctors over analyze patients for fear of being sued. If you want to improve healthcare, you need to restore the customer/business relationship between the patient/doctor. That means putting the money and power back in the hands of the patient and getting the government out of it.

If the government subsidized car repair, it'd cost $20,000 for an oil change because government bureaucrats are that incompetent, apathetic, and stupid.

Yeah that’s not really libertarianism you’re advocating. Just more statist corporate boot licking

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Has anyone heard of Tank, Riot, Alpha and Athena? Group of big ass protesters decked out in riot gear and gas masks. Riot looks like Predator with his dread locks hanging out of his riot helmet. We need more of these guys on the streets. There’s video of Tank Walking right up to cops and sticking his finger in their faces before mock saluting them. Video of Alpha picking up tear gas canisters and throwing them back at cops.

 

[ceecee]

Has anyone heard of Tank, Riot, Alpha and Athena? Group of big ass protesters decked out in riot gear and gas masks. Riot looks like Predator with his dread locks hanging out of his riot helmet. We need more of these guys on the streets. There’s video of Tank Walking right up to cops and sticking his finger in their faces before mock saluting them. Video of Alpha picking up tear gas canisters and throwing them back at cops.

The one throwing tear gas back at the cops in DC in June? Spec Ops Guy?

 

[ceecee]

I'm sure everyone has seen Captain Portland by now. I wonder how the Navy feels about the federales beating on one of theirs.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

The one throwing tear gas back at the cops in DC in June? Spec Ops Guy?

Yeah. I was reading up on them, I think Tank and Riot may be the same guy. Athena is apparently not wearing a mask so they've been protecting her identity by not showing photos or videos. Regardless, we need a whole army of this guy.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm sure everyone has seen Captain Portland by now. I wonder how the Navy feels about the federales beating on one of theirs.

That guy is a beast. Amazing how far a little adrenaline can go, I know it had to hurt when they smacked him with that club.

 

[ceecee]

Yeah. I was reading up on them, I think Tank and Riot may be the same guy. Athena is apparently not wearing a mask so they've been protecting her identity by not showing photos or videos. Regardless, we need a whole army of this guy.

- - - Updated - - -



That guy is a beast. Amazing how far a little adrenaline can go, I know it had to hurt when they smacked him with that club.

Apparently he needs surgery, pins and a plate in his hand and arm. He's 53.

 

[Jaguar]

I'm sure everyone has seen Captain Portland by now. I wonder how the Navy feels about the federales beating on one of theirs.

Talk about calm under pressure. Jesus.

 

[anticlimatic]

Portland Protests: Democratic Authorities Tacitly Endorse Violent Riots | National Review

If only mobs were allowed to destroy federal property without consequence.
Then, there wouldn’t have to be any dispute over federal agents defending a federal courthouse in Portland, Ore. It could simply be overrun and burned to the ground with no unwelcome resistance.

Although the federal courthouse has done nothing to provoke protesters and has been standing at the same spot since 1997, it has been a constant target. Protesters have smashed its glass doors, covered its exterior with graffiti, and repeatedly attempted to light it on fire. This has been happening since at least early July.

True to form, protesters over the weekend took down fencing and lit a fire at the building’s entryway. As a statement from the Portland police put it, “dozens of people with shields, helmets, gas masks, umbrellas, bats, and hockey sticks approached the doors” of the courthouse — but surely it was just a misunderstanding that led the federal officers to believe they had to repulse them with tear gas.

This isn’t hard: It is the people attacking federal property who bear moral responsibility for what’s happening in Portland. In all the cities around the country where nihilistic mobs aren’t trying to burn down symbols of our justice system, there’s no enhanced presence of federal officers.

Army of indignant white petulance.

 

[ceecee]

Since the overriding feeling is that protesters are burning down buildings and looting businesses in all cities (they're not), conservatives feel that the federal troops are a fine method to stop the obviously violent protests, regardless of legality. Trump has threatened to send troops to

Chicago
Detroit
Oakland (nothing happening in Oakland but I'm sure there is another reason for this)

Basically any Democratically mayored city in the US.

Oh wait.

Not a single store looted or single fire started by protesters says the Detroit Police Department? But Trump said otherwise. Could he be lying? Could this be meat to the GOP base to prove his law and order platform and stoke the paranoia and fear motivating them since Day 1? Nah.

It's unconstitutional, it's unlawful and all it will accomplish is bringing more people into the streets and more people against Trump.

I said from the beginning, Trump badly wants to be an autocrat and his goal is to do what every other autocrat and authoritarian dictator has done throughout history. The right is going to let him while crying about the troops and standing for the flag. Since the right have claimed they are armed in case the govt. comes for them, they have since scurried like the cockroaches they are in this moment. They can fuck completely off.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Police Knew Far-Right Extremists Were the Real Threat at George Floyd Protests, not “Antifa”

I wish some source would compile and compare threats received, because it definitely seems to me like people on the left receive death threats *a lot* more than people on the right too. Some comprehensive comparison of which side regularly adds more violence to the world - with sources to back all of it up, so it's easily verifiable - would do wonders for our country right now.

***

It's just baffling to me that apparently Trump supporters are swallowing these stories whole about Democrat governors and mayors who don't want "help" in the form of federal troops are ALL suddenly radical left Marxist extremists? It's going to take a long, long time to recover from consequences of this shit smear's histrionic fear-mongering.

 

[ceecee]

I wish some source would compile and compare threats received, because it definitely seems to me like people on the left receive death threats *a lot* more than people on the right too. Some comprehensive comparison of which side regularly adds more violence to the world - with sources to back all of it up, so it's easily verifiable - would do wonders for our country right now.

***

It's just baffling to me that apparently Trump supporters are swallowing these stories whole about Democrat governors and mayors who don't want "help" in the form of federal troops are ALL suddenly radical left Marxist extremists? It's going to take a long, long time to recover from consequences of this shit smear's histrionic fear-mongering.

Oh I'm not surprised. They know they are clinging to a rope that's unraveling so they'll try and say anything. While I like the idea of a comprehensive side by side comparison it won't help. They're lost and all any sane person can do is not let them control the narrative at any level.

I'm sure the Trump supporters won't mind when Democrats/Republicans/Some other political group send troops to roll through their little rural towns and cities of whatever is seen as a threat. They are so incredibly void of any kind of rationality, they can't figure out human behavior and Trump supporters anxiety, fear and paranoia is the reason the current situation is even happening. And "the liberal media" is at fault. This narrative is purposeful on the part of the right. That's how Fox News is still on the air. They are right wing propaganda entirely should have been fired into the sun long ago.

Every hell on earth in the last 100 years came from a duly elected or appointed leader. Just like Trump. Just like Mussolini. Just like Hitler. The US has already been committing these atrocities in other countries for decades. Now the military is simply doing it in the US. Just like Mussolini. Just like Hitler. Minus a small handful of lawmakers, there won't be any help coming. All those judges Trump appointed, that the right thought would just be anti-abortion and pro business? lol Just wait.

Once this ball is allowed to start rolling, it doesn't stop on it's own.

 

[ceecee]

This City Stopped Sending Police to Every 911 Call | The Marshall Project

Handling violent crime accounts for as little as 4 percent of an officer's time at work. And delegating other crises—such as mental health or addiction issues—to non-law enforcement is an idea gaining traction. A recent survey found 68 percent of voters supported the creation of a “new agency of first responders.” (However, just a quarter of Americans say they support “reducing funding” for police departments.)

The small city of Eugene, Oregon, has had such a program since 1989, which now handles roughly 20 percent of 911 calls and has saved the city millions in police and emergency room resources, according to the program’s own estimates. CAHOOTS—which stands for Crisis Assistance Helping Out On The Streets—dispatches a nurse or EMT alongside an experienced mental health worker for calls such as welfare checks, mental health episodes, public intoxication, or death notices.

Since every time this gets brought up, as well as the wider misunderstood "defund the police" demand, someone immediately says these are new programs that the George Floyd protests are the only reason they're being created.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

This City Stopped Sending Police to Every 911 Call | The Marshall Project






Since every time this gets brought up, as well as the wider misunderstood "defund the police" demand, someone immediately says these are new programs that the George Floyd protests are the only reason they're being created.

You would think the pro police people would not want their police departments being distracted from crime solving by other priorities

I want to cruise in my mustang with my turtleneck to scope for hoods, not to check up on old Mrs Hastings with the life alert bracelet