[INTP] The INTP Appreciation Thread

[sriv]

My comment was snarky.

I noticed.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

My comment was snarky.

Yet, I have to respond, if slightly...

A priori logic is as rational as the construct of its foundation. All people are born. Sounds legit.

Yet, when variables change, so to does the meaning of the priori. Let's say tomorrow, people lose the capacity to sexually reproduce (profound unlikelihood, yet not impossible.) From here on, we'll say all humans must biologically mature within a laboratory from zygote to fetus. Childbirth undergoes revision. People are no longer born.

Rationalism too - All carrots are plants. Plants grow in the ground. All carrots grow in the ground.

Once we are able to synthesize methods in which carrots can successfully grow out of the ground, we render our Rationalist framework archaic.

Yes, rules on some things can change, and to that degree I use pragmatism to deal with life on a case to case basis. But when it comes to questions of cosmic, one might say traditionally divine proportions, I am a rationalist.

I think, therefor I am. That's the best example. As long as I'm thinking I exist. No alternative can be conceived(and I've seen a lot of people try). It's a very broad and yet very simple conclusion. It still uses some logic basis to be concluded, though.

My problem with pragmatism on the "divine" scale is that it usually leads to traps of reduction ad infinitum. Foundational believe spares of that problem.

...But yes, you were being snarky.

 

[01011010]

Ditto. I love the deep discussion you can get into with an INTJ, but sometimes it can be draining even for the likes of an INTP, for the INTJ in my experience likes nothing more than the deep waters that require a fair amount of energy to traverse. But it's still extremely fun . Turns me on actually...

I'm mostly turned on by mental stimulation as well.

 

[01011010]

Coming from an INTJ, that is one hell of a compliment

Why thank you, in return.

 

[Risen]

I'm mostly turned on by mental stimulation as well.

I like how agreeable you are .

 

[mippus]

this is becoming too fluffy for an NT-thread

 

[BrianBear]

this is becoming too fluffy for an NT-thread

Bah, you just want a hug.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Bah, you just want a hug.

Maybe he wants me to start babbling about epistemology again.

 

[01011010]

Haha. Minako, you're going to make a name for yourself just by being the INTJ without a chip on your shoulder.

MP, I'm starting to understand what you meant. I see hostility all over this board regarding INTP vs INTJ. My two best relationships were with INTPs. So, I guess I'm just the bias INTJ.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

MP, I'm starting to understand what you meant. I see hostility all over this board regarding INTP vs INTJ. My two best relationships were with INTPs. So, I guess I'm just the bias INTJ.

I try to stay out of the hostilities. I still get dragged in sometimes.

One of my brothers is an INTJ, and I have lived most of my life with a cold impression of him. It's only improved in the time that I have been living with him and his girlfriend. He's mean, and he has often left me baffled with his inability to respect talents other than his own.

One time, I recall explaining to my mother what the contrasts were between an INTP and an INTJ, and I don't remember exactly what it is I said about INTPs, but my brother then piped in "Yeah, you're the people that mess everything up". He said it with a smile, but it was obvious that to some extent, he really believed it. I reflected on that with astonishment, wondering "if INTPs mess everything up, then what does he have to say about ESFPs?".

As I moved into social environments like this forum, I learned that my experience was not uniquely personal. It turns out that my brother sort of represents the stereo-typical flawed INTJ. We have a few on this forum(but I'm not going to name names).

I know plenty of INTPs make their own misguided contributions to these conflicts, but it should still come as no suprise that I've been on their side rather than the INTJs'. Ideally, there wouldn't be any sides to take.

It's really dumb. One might argue that most type conflict is caused by people failing to recognize the use of other types(just look at BlueWing). In light of this, I muse that there are hardly any two types that should be more able to recognize the usefulness of one another than INTPs and INTJs.

 

[miked277]

One might argue that most type conflict is caused by people failing to recognize the use of other types(just look at BlueWing). In light of this, I muse that there are hardly any two types that should be more able to recognize the usefulness of one another than INTPs and INTJs.

aye, for me at least this has been one of the greatest insights mbti has provided... showing me that everyone has the potential to be useful, interesting and just generally worth getting to know.

 

[Priam]

It's really dumb. One might argue that most type conflict is caused by people failing to recognize the use of other types(just look at BlueWing). In light of this, I muse that there are hardly any two types that should be more able to recognize the usefulness of one another than INTPs and INTJs.

To my mind the conflict rests upon the pragmatic/theoretical divide. There are no other types with the ability to be so ruthless and planned-necessity driven than INTJs and no type so attached to pie-in-the-sky ideas and debates as an INTP, which can lead to a massive tension. In an ideal world, INTPs appreciate the drive to get things done, and to do so in an intelligent and efficient manner, that an INTJ brings to the table; the INTJ appreciates an INTPs ability to build theoretical structures that can underpin their projects and goals, helping to create long-term strength and viability. In the worst possible world, well... the conversation doesn't get too far past "absent-minded professor/waste of space" and "wannabe supervillain/egomaniac".

 

[Uytuun]

I think that's too black an white. We are more pragmatic, but we certainly aren't devoid from pie-in-the-sky moments and a love for theory, fantasy and pure imagination. We live in our heads first and foremost, what happens to the outside world is not a goal in itself. I find the INTP theorises INTJ executes dynamic to be fairly reductive in that it mostly emphasises INTJ Te (and INTP Ti?).

 

[Priam]

I think that's too black an white. We are more pragmatic, but we certainly aren't devoid from pie-in-the-sky moments and a love for theory, fantasy and pure imagination. We live in our heads first and foremost, what happens to the outside world is not a goal in itself. I find the INTP theorises INTJ executes dynamic to be fairly reductive in that it mostly emphasises INTJ Te (and INTP Ti?).

It is indeed reductive, which is rather the point I was driving at. We are not only those things, even when considered as archetypes, but those pieces tend to be where I see the most conflict between the two particular types. Especially when overemphasized on both sides.

 

[MacGuffin]

I try to stay out of the hostilities. I still get dragged in sometimes.

Well, INTJ-lover! We know what side you are on when the revolution comes!

One of my brothers is an INTJ, and I have lived most of my life with a cold impression of him. It's only improved in the time that I have been living with him and his girlfriend. He's mean, and he has often left me baffled with his inability to respect talents other than his own.

One time, I recall explaining to my mother what the contrasts were between an INTP and an INTJ, and I don't remember exactly what it is I said about INTPs, but my brother then piped in "Yeah, you're the people that mess everything up". He said it with a smile, but it was obvious that to some extent, he really believed it. I reflected on that with astonishment, wondering "if INTPs mess everything up, then what does he have to say about ESFPs?".

It's true though. We mess things up all the time. We don't go along to get along. And if we do, we get stressed out and eventually really mess things up.

 

[Domino]

I love INTPs so much, I bury them in my crawlspace. There's a little toad who lives down there. You guys like toads.

 

[Uytuun]

It is indeed reductive, which is rather the point I was driving at. We are not only those things, even when considered as archetypes, but those pieces tend to be where I see the most conflict between the two particular types. Especially when overemphasized on both sides.

Mwell, it's not about not only, it's about fundamentally not being that thing i.e. the executive. I can only speak for myself of course and I'm not the strongest J in the land.

Ni vs. Ti seems to generate a lot of misunderstandings, though.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

It's true though. We mess things up all the time. We don't go along to get along. And if we do, we get stressed out and eventually really mess things up.

Everybody messes things up. They just go about messing up in different ways, and are perhaps more likely to mess up depending on what kind of situation they're dealing with. But in the universal sense(not the case by case sense) I'd say all the types are equally bungling.

I love INTPs so much, I bury them in my crawlspace. There's a little toad who lives down there. You guys like toads.

I do like toads! But I'm not sure about being buried... I can't really appreciate the toad if I'm dead.

 

[MacGuffin]

Ni vs. Ti seems to generate a lot of misunderstandings, though.

Ti is logical.

Ni is wrong.

Everybody messes things up. They just go about messing up in different ways, and are perhaps more likely to mess up depending on what kind of situation they're dealing with. But in the universal sense(not the case by case sense) I'd say all the types are equally bungling.

We mess up others though in pretty spectacular ways. Sometimes without even realizing it!

 

[Magic Poriferan]

We mess up others though in pretty spectacular ways. Sometimes without even realizing it!

To represent the errors of the INTJ, I will use my favorite of my brother's bad habits. If he bothers to help someone with a problem(which is not a pretty site to begin with) he often tackles the problem with such certainty that he doesn't bother asking questions. This results in him "fixing" a problem that no one actually had, and then walking away without a moment's notice. Not surprisingly, whenever he does this, he has to come back later to fix the real problem. He's usually even more angry then, but he really has no one to be angry at but himself.