The Haunting of Hill House

[Z Buck McFate]

I actually can't remember which episode this is from, probably #7 or #8:

It might be because I love Henry Thomas and I was hoping they'd flesh Henry Wingrave more simply because Thomas was playing that role, but I like the twist/reveal that he's so distant from the kids maybe because his brother had banished him from Bly Manor and Henry was honoring his brother's wishes. His conscious clearly weighs heavy on him since the alter ego started the day he heard about his brother and sister-in-law died in the accident. Goddamn that alter ego is unsettling. I wonder what Flanagan said to Thomas to inspire that creepy smile, or if Thomas came up with it himself.

Since I don't plan on finishing for a while, I figure I'll jot down some comparisons to the book now (that shouldn't be read until finishing the series).

Except this part, which I don't think needs a spoiler: I'm glad Flanagan incorporated the moment when the governess gets impatient with the paranoid feeling and yells at Flora to stop looking over her (governess's) shoulder as if she's actually talking to someone standing behind her. That was a creepy moment in the book. It was appropriately subdued in Victoria Pedretti; in the book it was a sort of breaking point where she could hardly stand the paranoia anymore and had become convinced *something* was going on, but the same neurotic reaction in F's adaptation wouldn't really have made sense, so it was adjusted accordingly.

Also, something that's probably worth mentioning is that the governess is never actually given a name in the book. Even though she's the narrator, and it's told entirely from her point of view. She's referred to simply as the governess, and called "Miss" by Mrs. Grose and the children.

In the book, it's never made plain whether there were really any ghosts or not. The governess thinks she catches glimpses of them here and there, and she thinks she catches the children talking to them. She notices behavior changes in the children and ends up convinced that Miss Jessel and Peter (whose character is not fleshed out much at all in the book, except to say that she was somewhat impressionable/gullible and there was something predatory about him) are trying to 'take over' the children. That's pretty much the whole story, the feeling of paranoia getting worse and worse (the 'turning of the screw'). She tries enlisting Mrs. Grose's help, but Mrs. Grose thinks the governess is losing her mind.

Henry Wingrave is never anything more than a static background character who is the children's uncle, but he really doesn't want much of anything to do with them.

Peter Quint isn't just missing, but dead - so when the governess 'sees' him, there's no chance it's really him. Not in living form anyway.

Miles dies at the end, and it looks like he's going to die in this adaptation too. In the book it isn't clear whether his death is because Peter Quint really did take over and some consequence of that killed him or if it was actually the governess herself who killed him as a result of going insane from thinking he was possessed.

Here is the Sparknotes summary of the book (it's pretty good, as summaries go) if anyone is interested.

 

[Totenkindly]

Okay, I wasn't going to, but I couldn't help myself and blew through the end.

Your comment above refers to episode#7. Episode #8 is the flashback in b&w to explain the origin of the manor ghosts. The whole episode is narrated by Gugino, and she does a brilliant job -- and I have now read somewhere that a lot of it was torn from the James story after which the episode is titled. I wouldn't be surprised. The language is beautiful and lyrical as delivered by Gugino, extremely repetitive but it works because of her delivery AND the repetition, which is signifying something about the experience of the ghosts themselves. I was both laughing in pleasure and feeling great sadness listening to it.

I also LOL'ed when

Arthur and Isabelle tossed Viola's trunk in the lake. All she wanted was to be left out to be with them. Instead, because of her behavior, they felt the chest was cursed and ditched it.

This bit with the "space" that was really the inside of the trunk but felt like the room reminds me a ton of Fables, with the Great Powers who get locked in boxes to sleep. This happens to the North Wind, and it happens to the Dark Man as well. They are enticed to enter the box to "rest" or "feel safe" and it's like their own little secure prison they experience from within, in their own little framework of reality, until something eventually lets them out and suddenly there's hell to pay.

You will have to tell how how you perceived the finale when you finally see it. I have mixed feelings, although I feel like the final half hour ends very strongly and in an earned way, unlike the happy twist at the end of "Hill House" which really bothered me considering what a departure it was from the tone of the Jackson story.

(By the way, for kicks, I reread The Lottery the other week and it was just delicious, there were so many nasty letters to the New Yorker over that story; Jackson just reeled them all in and then sucker punches them at the end. I can definitely see her influence in how Stephen King writes as well.)

My thoughts on the finale:

1. It felt like a disappointment in the first 15 minutes. The entire eight episodes before were building to this and it feels very anticlimactic. Peter and Rebecca barely appear, and Rebecca just feels more amoral to me as the series has progressed, although I think she was supposed to be considered a "good" person. Hannah tries to do something -- her leaving her happy place actually made me cry -- but seems entirely ineffectual and barely plays a role in the rest. Henry's big moral decision to engage also seems ineffectual. Dani's "hail mary" pulls it off but feels at first like a deux ex machina and unsatisfying... until you realize the true cost of her choice.

2. One thing Flannigan I think is good with is providing breathing space after a story, in the denouement. We don't get a lot of that in American film much anymore, but I think the best novels and films give the audience time to wind down and follow up. It's like Tolkien doing the Scouring of the Shire, the Grey Havens, and finally ending with Sam; or King taking a large chunk at the end of "IT" to show how things unwind and the reverberations of the story into the future. Flannigan does there here too -- he devotes 75% of the final episode to wind things down. Which sucks in the quick climax, but ends up paying off as the episode goes on.

3. Dani's struggle with Viola over the years might as well be a struggle with her own inherent mortality and the realization that love eventually leads to loss. Denying love just brings isolation; refusing to let go when the time comes just brings a false life; love and loss are inseparable, sadly, and it is both a horrible and a beautiful pain, like the moonflower Jamie invests so much in just for a night of beauty. I love their life together, I love that they love each other well, through their frailties, and I love that Dani is willing to let go out of love when the time comes. Love and possession are opposites, the latter is domination of the object of affection so as to never lose it; Peter never really acted out of love, but Dani and Jamie did.

4. So there's weirdness with the final wedding shot and who everyone is, considering the things that have changed from what we realize, although it's covered up by the narrator's claim that "if you look for Bly Manor, you won't find one by that name, but perhaps you'd be able to find the one I am describing" -- so the people involved in the story might not have actually looked or sounded like the people we saw in the series either, everything's been "scrubbed a bit" to become anonymous.

5. The ending is both hopeful and sad. Every ghost story is really a love story. I love how Jamie was able to let Dani go in terms of the literal, yet holds onto her in her memory and her customs. I'm tearing up now as I write this. But that's how it feels. Even when I've people who are still living but for some reason the relationship died -- I still hold onto who they were in my heart and look for them in my life, even as I know I can't keep them with me or preserve the relationship beyond its time. There are little things I remember about them, little rituals I might do from my memory of them, feeling those moments again, and they still live in me.

But damn, I'm gonna have to rewatch the entire thing now when I get time, before I forget too much.

 

[Totenkindly]

Thoughts on the first episode, after rewatching it once I finished the series (ongoing updates as I think of more):

1. There are things in the opener that even if you observe the details, you won't grasp because the rest of the series provides context. The five minute book-end is one of these things, there's stuff the first episode opens with that mirrors what's happening in the finale, only you will understand it by that point. But also at the rehearsal dinner and how some of the characters regard each other. There are knowing looks, there are comments in the speeches, and so forth. But it makes the initial hotel shots even much sadder and explains the look of disappointment on the narrator's face, once we know what she is doing.

2. The plague doctor shows up a hell of a lot in this episode in the background in minor silhouette (often identified by his beak). There's the one obvious foreground shot, but I think I could see him moving slightly way in the background on maybe 2-3 other occasions? edit: actually, I'm up to about 8 or 9 appearances, maybe. Most are out of focus or just a bit of silhouette in the distance, but he's all over the place -- sometimes even in the daytime.

3. On first pass, I couldn't tell who was looking out the windows at the episode end, so this time I got up and approached the screen. Duh. it's Miles and Flora. They are concerned about Dani because while Viola has left the house, they're afraid Dani might see her or investigate too closely. But it's easy to mistake them as ghosts on first watch.

4. The pictures of the two women in the foyer now take on an eerier meaning.

5. Hannah's lapses of attention make sense now, along with the fact she keeps making excuses not to eat -- although they are so casual and allowable that you don't think twice of it, really.

6. The whole butterfly comb thing takes on new meaning. Flora is trying to protect Rebecca's interests/property, which is why she harshes on Dani for having it (and she understands that Peter likely gave it to Dani); but then Rebecca is actually in the room talking to Flora and says it is okay, so Flora relents.

7. dani's argument with her mom at staying in England a lot longer makes a lot more sense -- plus her constantly covering all the mirrors.

8. Owen refers to the whole town of Bly (where he was born) as a 'gravity sink' and how difficult it is to escape.

9. The first time we see Edmund's image is when Dani almost steps into the street and gets hit by a bus.

10. Dani picks up on Henry's drinking very quickly ("putting brandy in your tea" or some such comment).

11. It's funny to me how Jamie has very little response to Dani initially, considering where things go. She's very detached and keeps a noticeable wall of air around herself.

12. Hannah of course is shown lighting candles for the dead. I think there are four candles lit, one of them much newer than the others (as its flame is still above the lip of the glass). She's lighting them, I presume, for Mr. & Mrs. Wingrave, and then for Rebecca... and the new one is for herself without even really realizing why. I don't think she'd light a candle for Peter, since she forgets he's dead and she despises him anyway.

13. Henry seems more accessible in the pub, although he's still drinking. Do we ever see "Evil Henry" outside of his office? He seems to be a product of Henry brooding in the office where his brother banished him from the family, while drinking steadily.

14. The "O Willow Waly" song is even sadder now, once we realize the narrator's role.

15. Peter appears first on the parapet outside the master bedroom, I think. It's an important room for Peter -- he tried to steal things from it, Rebecca's core memory (in the fur coat and Polaroid) is there, and it is where Viola dragged his body (dead? alive? I think he was dead by then) the night she killed him.

On when Miles is himself:

Miles was just kind of creepy in the first episode and seemed to change persona. now we know why. The problem is that he is precocious to start with.

He was Peter when they meet by the well. He is also Peter when he's peeking through Dani's door to watch her undress. There's another scene where I think he is Peter, based on how he talks to her; but I think the scene where he locks her in the closet is himself, and maybe also when she tucks him into bed and they talk about boarding school. There's also a scene where he talks about his uncle's lack of involvement, which I think was Miles speaking. Typically where Miles is more polite and calls her by her last name in a non-condescending way, he's himself; but the condescension comes out when Peter is in charge.

I think in general, Flora's use of "splendid" is more just her imitating Rebecca, whom she loved, at least in this episode. However, when Miles reflects Peter's language and behavior, it's more often because Peter is possessing him.

How the doll house works (which I think we've generally figured out:

Everything we need to know happens in the first episode, although there's no context so we're not even aware that we are observing its functioning -- and we're still missing the observation of how the dolls move... which is through the agency of the little boy ghost, who Flora was kind to and thus he is helping to warn her about dangers on the property.

The dolls represent where the people and the ghosts are. Once you know the ghosts and the living, then you can recognize all the dolls.

Viola (who has no face even as a doll) is under the dresser to signify she's sleeping at the bottom of the lake. This is why Flora doesn't want her moved at the beginning. As the "deadly ghost," it's important to know exactly where she is.

When Viola rises from the water, her doll changes position. This is why the kids flip out when Dani trips on Viola in the middle of the floor; she is no longer sleeping under the dresser/lake, Viola is awake and moving towards the house. Flora flips out and even Miles is very concerned -- and both kids lock her in the closet and refuse to free her, despite Dani's freak-out. Because as bad as that is, it is so much worse what Viola will do to anyone in her way, after they saw what happened to Peter. it seems like a horrible thing for the children to do the first time you view it, but now it seems like the only thing they COULD have done, as Dani hasn't been around long enough yet for any talk of "ghosts" to dissuade her from wandering the house at night.

 

[Lexicon]

Thoughts on the first episode, after rewatching it once I finished the series:

1. There are things in the opener that even if you observe the details, you won't grasp because the rest of the series provides context. The five minute book-end is one of these things, there's stuff the first episode opens with that mirrors what's happening in the finale, only you will understand it by that point. But also at the rehearsal dinner and how some of the characters regard each other. There are knowing looks, there are comments in the speeches, and so forth.

2. The plague doctor shows up a hell of a lot in this episode in the background in minor silhouette (often identified by his beak). There's the one obvious foreground shot, but I think I could see him moving slightly way in the background on maybe 2-3 other occasions?

3. On first pass, I couldn't tell who was looking out the windows at the episode end, so this time I got up and approached the screen. Duh. it's Miles and Flora. They are concerned about Dani because while Viola has left the house, they're afraid Dani might see her or investigate too closely.

4. The pictures of the two women in the foyer now take on an eerier meaning.

5. Hannah's lapses of attention make sense now, along with the fact she keeps making excuses not to eat -- although they are so casual and allowable that you don't think twice of it, really.

6. The whole butterfly comb thing takes on new meaning. Flora is trying to protect Rebecca's interests/property, which is why she harshes on Dani for having it (and she understands that Peter likely gave it to Dani); but then Rebecca is actually in the room talking to Flora and says it is okay, so Flora relents.

7. dani's argument with her mom at staying in England a lot longer makes a lot more sense -- plus her constantly covering all the mirrors.

8. Owen refers to the whole town of Bly (where he was born) as a 'gravity sink' and how difficult it is to escape.

9. The first time we see Edmund's image is when Dani almost steps into the street and gets hit by a bus.

10. Dani picks up on Henry's drinking very quickly ("putting brandy in your tea" or some such comment).

On when Miles is himself:

Miles was just kind of creepy in the first episode and seemed to change persona. now we know why. The problem is that he is precocious to start with.

He was Peter when they meet by the well. He is also Peter when he's peeking through Dani's door to watch her undress. There's another scene where I think he is Peter, based on how he talks to her; but I think the scene where he locks her in the closet is himself, and maybe also when she tucks him into bed and they talk about boarding school. Typically where Miles is more polite and calls her by her last name in a non-condescending way, he's himself; but the condescension comes out when Peter is in charge.

I think in general, Flora's use of "splendid" is more just her imitating Rebecca, whom she loved, at least in this episode. However, when Miles reflects Peter's language and behavior, it's more often because Peter is possessing him.

How the doll house works (which I think we've generally figured out:

Everything we need to know happens in the first episode, although there's no context so we're not even aware that we are observing its functioning -- and we're still missing the observation of how the dolls move... which is through the agency of the little boy ghost, who Flora was kind to and thus he is helping to warn her about dangers on the property.

The dolls represent where the people and the ghosts are. Once you know the ghosts and the living, then you can recognize all the dolls.

Viola (who has no face even as a doll) is under the dresser to signify she's sleeping at the bottom of the lake. This is why Flora doesn't want her moved at the beginning. As the "deadly ghost," it's important to know exactly where she is.

When Viola rises from the water, her doll changes position. This is why the kids flip out when Dani trips on Viola in the middle of the floor; she is no longer sleeping under the dresser/lake, Viola is awake and moving towards the house. Flora flips out and even Miles is very concerned -- and both kids lock her in the closet and refuse to free her, despite Dani's freak-out. Because as bad as that is, it is so much worse what Viola will do to anyone in her way, after they saw what happened to Peter. it seems like a horrible thing for the children to do the first time you view it, but now it seems like the only thing they COULD have done.

[As soon as I noticed Hannah skip eating/drinking, I was like, SHE’S ALREADY DEAD!
..then I kinda hated being right.

[I thought they did a fantastic job with Miles when he was possessed. Certain subtle mannerisms that were distinctly adult. Like when he gestures to Dani to bend down so he can whisper into her ear. And how he doesn’t turn his head/cup his hand to her ear the way a child might. Along with the speech pattern changing in general, but I really appreciated those body language changes, as well.]

 

[Totenkindly]

Jackson-Cohen almost played a different Bly Manor role

Light spoilers, I guess, since it signifies roles in the season. But basically I am glad things ended up as they did.

However, in regards to Netflix's qualms about Pedretti (Dani) and Jackson-Cohen (Peter) being compared to their roles last season, well what about the similar gross angle they ended up actually doing (almost) this season?

If Rebecca and Peter actually took over Flora and Miles' bodies forever, they'd basically be lovers but to the outside world look like a brother and sister committing incest. And their last name isn't even Lannister.

 

[Totenkindly]

Thoughts on rewatching Episode 2:

1. The title "The Pupil" not just refers to Miles' adept learning at boarding school but the ways in which he is an apt pupil of Peter as well (such as the notion of people having "keys," which Peter discusses later).

2. Since Peter is trapped on Bly's grounds, anything Miles does while at school is of his own volition and not because he is possessed.

3. Father Stack initially mentions that a classmate "took a tumble" and won't be returning to school for awhile, after which he gives Miles his mail from Flora. The very first attempt Miles makes at getting home (which fails) is to fall out of a tree on purpose.

4. When a classmate asks why he jumped, Miles mutters, "Trying to find the right key," then just insists he "fell." (Later he apologizes to Father Stack, saying "I just needed to find your key.")

5. Miles increases the severity of his infractions -- first choking a classmate into unconsciousness, and when that doesn't work, killing Father Stack's pet dove and finally discussing how he should have desecrated the body. Doves are sacrificed in the Bible as a covering for one's sins.

6. The parable discussed by Father Stack is that of unclean spirits being sent by Jesus into a herd of swine, which then rush into the water and drown. (Compare this to the activity of the Lady of the Lake -- an evil spirit who throttles and/or drowns her victims.) This is important later, when we learn that spirits must be invited in and cannot simply possess their victims. There is irony in that Father Stack tries to blame the tragedies of Miles' life for his violent behavior, and Milies immediately declares he "was not compelled" and has chosen them of his own volition.

7. Miles tells the headmaster that "dead doesn't mean gone." He also complains to Father Stack that it's the evil spirits that want to come back, never the good ones. The verse that Father Stack gives him (that one day he will see his loved ones again) feels like a lie, as his parents' ghosts never return.

8. The "Come Home" letter shows the ghosts of Peter and Rebecca on it, along with a sobbing pink-garbed Flora.

9. Jamie asks whether the others think Dani is overly pretty, while Owen jokes about only having eyes for Hannah. They are both making jokes to cover up actual interests.

10. The old photo of the Wingraves has Henry (instead of Dominic, which would have made more sense in this family photo) holding Flora.

11. Perdita's faceless ghost is humming/moaning the music box song along with Flora in the attic and needs to be shushed.

12. Miles (as Peter, I am assuming) distracts Dani from the photo of Peter and Rebecca. Dani sees his reflection in the window, and then after Miles passes out, he sees the same reflection leering at him.

13. The masked child ghost is in a collection of dolls in the basement. There are also multiple appearances of the plague doctor, along with an actual appearance of Rebecca.

14. Hannah begins observing cracks in the walls but it always looks like the same crack. Her odd flightiness continues.

Thoughts on rewatching Episode 3:

Epsiode 3
1. Peter stares at his own face reflected atop a real suit in a display case -- basically an "insubstantial man" while "Twisted Love" plays in the background.

2. When Rebecca tells Flora she "likes all the colors" to determine what color her doll should would, Flora makes black clothes (since it is all the colors) and Rebecca is also wearing black at the time. She also seems to be wear black after her demise. (Weirdly, she is wearing white when Flora first gives her the doll; white in terms of light composition also contains "all the colors.")

3. More comments about Hannah's lack of drink intake and her inability to sleep well. More appearances of that odd crack in the wall too.

4. The plague doctor lurks in the background behind Dani as the cop states he found nothing on his pass across the property.

5. Peter picks a bundle of roses for Rebecca (via Flora), just as Miles (possessed by Peter) picked a bundle in the last episode. This is a character trait of Peter: He takes what he wants without regards to others, to suit his purposes.

6. Peter gives his "key" speech, exemplifying how relationships are forms of manipulation to him -- figure out what someone wants, give it to them, and they'll do what you want in return.

7. Rebecca's rose sits beautiful but isolated from the rest of the bunch, in its own vase.

8. Peter is intentional in his falsehoodsl. (Henry notes, "You never make a mistake, Peter," when he pretends to misspeak during Rebecca's interview.) Peter lies in round-about ways, to win people's trust and appear self-deprecating, so that they will provide him with the key to their personality. He plays reluctant and earnest with Rebecca, even suggesting one day "he might end up working for her" because of her ambition, to get her to reveal her heart to him. His answers back to her sound honest on the surface, while being canned and unexplanatory after further thought. Even the seduction sequence is staged to make it look like her choice. It all is encapsulated when Miles asks him why he gave the flowers to Flora if he was interested in Rebecca, and Peter admits, "I didn't." He knew all along the key to Rebecca was through Flora. His skill at lying and manufacturing his appearance suggests he's been doing this a long long time.

9. Jamie and Dani discuss love vs possession, which is a description of the entire series.

10. Jamie tests Dani's orientation again -- "Don't you wish you were the one curled up on Owen's shoulder? Every girl in the village loves him." Dani sidesteps the comment. They hold hands briefly at the end of the episode, and Jamie says something like, "Who would have guessed?"

11. Miles tells Hannah he had a bad dream about how her hurt her and it made him sad. She says he could never hurt her. They're both right.

12. Peter tells Miles he "lost his dad too" but this might not be true. It's hard to believe Peter would even carry a keepsake (the lighter) of his father's, aside from stealing it.

13. Hannah to Peter: "You see, if I ever find you in here again, going through Charlotte's things, I will drag you out of this house by your bloody ear and throw you into that dirty lake!" This is exactly what happens to Peter after he is caught in the room again (stealing the necklace -- I think that comes later), although not at Hannah's hand.

14. Peter's abusive tendencies come out first when he grabs Rebecca's hand when she casually tries to leave their bed. Later, after shamed by Hannah, he takes this out on Rebecca by accusing her of flirting with Owen, saying horrible horrible things to her and abandoning her at least temporarily. He is needy, he's afraid of abandonment and his ego cannot handle being shamed.

15. Miles' puppet speech -- he seems to be possessed by Peter shortly after he begins, devolving into the spiteful comments about the puppets (assuming the staff of Bly) forgetting that they are just puppets...

I think all the acting was quite good in this btw, especially with some actors without much past acclaim and/or professional experience... esp the kids (Benjamin Evan Ainsworth and Amelia Bee Smith).

 

[Totenkindly]

My copy of "The Innocents" (1961) Criterion arrived today. So I am looking forward to watching that.

 

[Totenkindly]

'Bly Manor' Star Kate Siegel on Why Love—Not Rage—Drives the Lady of the Lake

 

[Totenkindly]

Netflix’s ‘Hill House’ and ‘Bly Manor’ Creator Doubles Down on ‘No Plans’ for Future Seasons

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Okay, I wasn't going to, but I couldn't help myself and blew through the end.

I finally finished it. I totally cried over Hannah and Owen. And I love these comments being here to read. Inasmuch as it's like throwing a message in a bottle back into the sea to respond to a bottle I'm finding, in terms of expediency, I figure it can't hurt to respond.

Your comment above refers to episode#7. Episode #8 is the flashback in b&w to explain the origin of the manor ghosts. The whole episode is narrated by Gugino, and she does a brilliant job -- and I have now read somewhere that a lot of it was torn from the James story after which the episode is titled. I wouldn't be surprised. The language is beautiful and lyrical as delivered by Gugino, extremely repetitive but it works because of her delivery AND the repetition, which is signifying something about the experience of the ghosts themselves. I was both laughing in pleasure and feeling great sadness listening to it.

I have a book of James' ghost stories with The Romance of Certain Old Clothes in it, so I 100% know what I'm doing after this until I fall asleep.

I also LOL'ed when

Arthur and Isabelle tossed Viola's trunk in the lake. All she wanted was to be left out to be with them. Instead, because of her behavior, they felt the chest was cursed and ditched it.

This bit with the "space" that was really the inside of the trunk but felt like the room reminds me a ton of Fables, with the Great Powers who get locked in boxes to sleep. This happens to the North Wind, and it happens to the Dark Man as well. They are enticed to enter the box to "rest" or "feel safe" and it's like their own little secure prison they experience from within, in their own little framework of reality, until something eventually lets them out and suddenly there's hell to pay.

Yeah, exactly, getting tossed into the swamp in a box felt very much like the archetype consequence for relying on some vice for security (a vice that seems like it'll secure happiness, but because it's actually something that interferes with healthy attachment to others instead of fostering a healthy attachment what it secures is a lonely prison of some kind). Like, not only was it the correct archetype consequence, it was well done.

You will have to tell how how you perceived the finale when you finally see it. I have mixed feelings, although I feel like the final half hour ends very strongly and in an earned way, unlike the happy twist at the end of "Hill House" which really bothered me considering what a departure it was from the tone of the Jackson story.

(By the way, for kicks, I reread The Lottery the other week and it was just delicious, there were so many nasty letters to the New Yorker over that story; Jackson just reeled them all in and then sucker punches them at the end. I can definitely see her influence in how Stephen King writes as well.)

Not sure why, but I really get a kick out of the angry letters too. I didn't really get why, after I read it. I mean, it's creepy. But not until the very end. It had one of those "To Serve Man" endings (the Twilight Zone episode where we find out at the very end that it's actually a cook book, and the whole episode of people volunteering to go with the aliens isn't especially horrifying until that last moment). But maybe that's what people absolutely hated about it? They could relate too much to the realistic situation leading up to that horrific ending, and had invested too much/related too much to the villagers by the time it happened?

My thoughts on the finale:

1. It felt like a disappointment in the first 15 minutes. The entire eight episodes before were building to this and it feels very anticlimactic. Peter and Rebecca barely appear, and Rebecca just feels more amoral to me as the series has progressed, although I think she was supposed to be considered a "good" person. Hannah tries to do something -- her leaving her happy place actually made me cry -- but seems entirely ineffectual and barely plays a role in the rest. Henry's big moral decision to engage also seems ineffectual. Dani's "hail mary" pulls it off but feels at first like a deux ex machina and unsatisfying... until you realize the true cost of her choice.

Yes, exactly. I think I was so charmed with other aspects of the story to this point that the things you mention above - while mildly disappointing - I had enough residual enthrall to coast on and forgive it. Mostly. Plus it's Flannagan, so I kinda feel like there's gotta be something in there I missed that'll hit me later. Like the cost of her choice. Even though she was able to make that choice through a weirdly deux ex machina mechanism, I suspect the meaning of the cost will drown out the disappoint of that once it has a chance to simmer.

2. One thing Flannigan I think is good with is providing breathing space after a story, in the denouement. We don't get a lot of that in American film much anymore, but I think the best novels and films give the audience time to wind down and follow up. It's like Tolkien doing the Scouring of the Shire, the Grey Havens, and finally ending with Sam; or King taking a large chunk at the end of "IT" to show how things unwind and the reverberations of the story into the future. Flannigan does there here too -- he devotes 75% of the final episode to wind things down. Which sucks in the quick climax, but ends up paying off as the episode goes on.

Agreed. (I love having these comments here to read as I'm finishing!! I love Flannagan's work, Turn Of the Screw has always been a favorite, and this adaptation didn't disappoint. As frustrating as it may be to have someone respond to something written almost a year ago, it's such a treat to have these to read.)

3. Dani's struggle with Viola over the years might as well be a struggle with her own inherent mortality and the realization that love eventually leads to loss. Denying love just brings isolation; refusing to let go when the time comes just brings a false life; love and loss are inseparable, sadly, and it is both a horrible and a beautiful pain, like the moonflower Jamie invests so much in just for a night of beauty. I love their life together, I love that they love each other well, through their frailties, and I love that Dani is willing to let go out of love when the time comes. Love and possession are opposites, the latter is domination of the object of affection so as to never lose it; Peter never really acted out of love, but Dani and Jamie did.

I love their life together too, and I love that the focus was almost entirely on the emotional companionship - there was definitely chemistry, and most of it wasn't sexual. I'm sure I'm going to watch the ending several times (probably months apart) just to savor the meaning in their relationship. Same goes with Hannah and Owen, and there's a feeling like they DID get time together that really meant something, even though any kind of physical relationship hadn't started (whereas most stories might treat their relationship like two ships that missed each other in the night/never had a chance to 'start' - the rapport between Hannah and Owen had started, had time to foment into something really meaning before ending).

4. So there's weirdness with the final wedding shot and who everyone is, considering the things that have changed from what we realize, although it's covered up by the narrator's claim that "if you look for Bly Manor, you won't find one by that name, but perhaps you'd be able to find the one I am describing" -- so the people involved in the story might not have actually looked or sounded like the people we saw in the series either, everything's been "scrubbed a bit" to become anonymous.

5. The ending is both hopeful and sad. Every ghost story is really a love story. I love how Jamie was able to let Dani go in terms of the literal, yet holds onto her in her memory and her customs. I'm tearing up now as I write this. But that's how it feels. Even when I've people who are still living but for some reason the relationship died -- I still hold onto who they were in my heart and look for them in my life, even as I know I can't keep them with me or preserve the relationship beyond its time. There are little things I remember about them, little rituals I might do from my memory of them, feeling those moments again, and they still live in me.

The ending is actually far more hopeful than the book. Though I'm a bit confused about what happened to Miles. I'd thought he was a goner, and there was a scene in the last episode where Peter apologized to a teary Miles as if it were a done deal ...but then there was a living Miles leaving with Flora and Henry. At first I thought it must be someone else leaving in Miles' body, but that didn't happen. I guess I'll figure that one out on the second go-round.

But anyway, far more hopeful than the book. And for a moment there it looked like Dani wasn't leaving the lake (after rescuing Flora), so it was actually a relief when she still had a few miles to go before she had to cash in. Still really sad about Hannah and Owen (and yeah, it really feels like that could have been filled out a bit more, for just a tiny bit more closure), but that sadness hit as soon as it was clear that she'd died at the beginning of the story.

In the original story, she has to basically kill Miles to save him from Peter - and it's never made clear whether she was nuts or if she was really saving him (which is part of why the story is so effectively creepy). Flora makes it out alive, barely (the housekeeper rushes her out of the house to visit a doctor because of a fever that wasn't getting better), Miles is dead, and the nanny ends up in an insane asylum.

And it totally sucks that apparently there won't be more Haunting seasons anytime soon. Even before this ended I kept thinking "Please please one more with all these actors, especially Rahul Kohli and Henry Thomas." But I'm stoked about the extra links here to read. So thanks for continuing to post even though there was little/no response.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Episode 8 is indeed the other James story. A lot of it used verbatim. And the episode sticks to this story closely.

There are a couple more characters in the James version, and removing them was a good call. They would have been superfluous.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

I was thinking today about how the first season also ended with one of the characters agreeing to sacrifice himself and 'join' the ghost in order to save everyone else. This is something Flanagan adds, it isn't in either original story, the notion that abandonment or some troubled/insecure attachment to others is the driving force behind the carnage and only someone making a choice to join the ghost calms it down. It reminds me of the Mr. Robot finale, which I loved, where the winning move in the computer game Eliot had to play (to shut off the bomb) was to make his character stay behind and probably sacrifice himself to sit with his injured friend. For some reason, I absolutely loved it and it's one of my favorite series endings ever. I like it in the Flanagan series, but not quite as much. (Although the Flanagan series are both chocked full of beautiful metaphors and enchanting bits and pieces throughout, which I don't think is as true for Mr. Robot).

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Also, something Flanagan added to episode 8, that wasn't in the James story, is the repeating "And she woke up, and she wandered around craving something, and she went back to sleep - each time forgetting a little bit more" element. I found that maybe the most haunting part of it (for the same reason it's so haunting in Waiting For Godot, or Rosencratz and Guildenstern Are Dead).

 

[Totenkindly]

I was thinking today about how the first season also ended with one of the characters agreeing to sacrifice himself and 'join' the ghost in order to save everyone else. This is something Flanagan adds, it isn't in either original story, the notion that abandonment or some troubled/insecure attachment to others is the driving force behind the carnage and only someone making a choice to join the ghost calms it down. It reminds me of the Mr. Robot finale, which I loved, where the winning move in the computer game Eliot had to play (to shut off the bomb) was to make his character stay behind and probably sacrifice himself to sit with his injured friend. For some reason, I absolutely loved it and it's one of my favorite series endings ever. I like it in the Flanagan series, but not quite as much. (Although the Flanagan series are both chocked full of beautiful metaphors and enchanting bits and pieces throughout, which I don't think is as true for Mr. Robot).

Yeah, Mr. Robot is one of my personally formative TV shows (AKA one of my lifetime top ten). Season 2 lost its way a bit, but then it makes an amazing uphill climb/push through to the Season 4 series finale and sticks the landing.

It's a theme that exists a lot in fantasy literature and has always resonated with me, whether it's how they get rid of Mr. Dark in the "Fables" comic book, or how "The Elfstones of Shannara" resolves itself, or (really appropriately) the short Earthsea story about Ogion's master Heleth called "The Bones of the Earth." (Ogion the Silent is Ged's master.) I always get choked up when I read it. I wish I had as much of LeGuin's talent as she contained just in her little finger, let alone the scribbling hand.

http://cleisabeni.com/uploads/6/0/4/7/60470251/bonesoftheearth.pdf

There are others as well (the Wyrd of the Elohim in 2nd Chronicles of Thomas Covenant), but there's basically a transformation of sorts and a merging, losing some or all of who you are to be subsumed in something else, to save people you love or save a collective. (Heck, despite the bad execution, that is also the end of the Matrix Revolutions.)

Also, something Flanagan added to episode 8, that wasn't in the James story, is the repeating "And she woke up, and she wandered around craving something, and she went back to sleep - each time forgetting a little bit more" element. I found that maybe the most haunting part of it (for the same reason it's so haunting in Waiting For Godot, or Rosencratz and Guildenstern Are Dead).

It's like a gradual death, like the specter of Alzheimer's, a gradual loss of self and self-consciousness.

They say that in the end you only have yourself, but even that sometimes can drip away until nothing remains. I think that's the worst, to feel it go over time. Like "Flowers for Algernon."

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Yeah, Mr. Robot is one of my personally formative TV shows (AKA one of my lifetime top ten). Season 2 lost its way a bit, but then it makes an amazing uphill climb/push through to the Season 4 series finale and sticks the landing.

It's a theme that exists a lot in fantasy literature and has always resonated with me, whether it's how they get rid of Mr. Dark in the "Fables" comic book, or how "The Elfstones of Shannara" resolves itself, or (really appropriately) the short Earthsea story about Ogion's master Heleth called "The Bones of the Earth." (Ogion the Silent is Ged's master.) I always get choked up when I read it. I wish I had as much of LeGuin's talent as she contained just in her little finger, let alone the scribbling hand.

http://cleisabeni.com/uploads/6/0/4/7/60470251/bonesoftheearth.pdf

There are others as well (the Wyrd of the Elohim in 2nd Chronicles of Thomas Covenant), but there's basically a transformation of sorts and a merging, losing some or all of who you are to be subsumed in something else, to save people you love or save a collective. (Heck, despite the bad execution, that is also the end of the Matrix Revolutions.)

I haven't read much fantasy, and haven't ready any for a long time now. I've read some snippets about LeGuin (quotes and whatnot) that made me add her to my 'some day' list though. If a person only gets around to reading one of her books, what book should that be?

It's like a gradual death, like the specter of Alzheimer's, a gradual loss of self and self-consciousness.

They say that in the end you only have yourself, but even that sometimes can drip away until nothing remains. I think that's the worst, to feel it go over time. Like "Flowers for Algernon."

Episode 8 shows the 'forgetting cycle' from the outside, from the viewpoint of an audience watching - it's clear that Viola is becoming more and more a mindless puppet of overwhelming emotions she's experiencing, and even the puppet starts operating on autopilot (whatever she might call her 'self' is long buried) - but Rosencratz and Guildenstern Are Dead and Waiting For Godot both give an internal dialogue for that whole downhill slope into purpose oblivion and the jarring thing about it (imo) is that it's so relatable. The internal dialogue looks a lot like routine "wait, what did I get up and come into this room for again?" kind of stuff. All sorts of Gurdjieff-y Enneagram-y stuff about "only ever seeking comfort puts our minds to sleep" is coming to mind. (I'm feeling like I've probably had too much sugar and instead of further spazzing out about this series tonight maybe I should have a lie down ).

Anyway, I thought the downward slide into being a hungry ghost was really well done.

 

[Totenkindly]

The Haunting of Bly Manor Blu-ray

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Another Flanagan Netflix series! With Henry Thomas *and* Rohul Kohli! Called Midnight Mass.

Midnight Mass Trailer Teaser Reveals Mike Flanagan's New Netflix Series

ETA: that link in a previous comment actually did already mention Midnight Mass, I'm just really excited about Thomas and Kohli.

 

[Totenkindly]

I started rewatching "Hill House" now with my son, since he has moved in with me. We watched the first two episodes last night. I'm excited to see his reaction to the Bent-Neck Lady episode and the one that follows with the great tracking shots.

Time has added more experiences to my memory since my last watch. I was really struck by Shirley's reactions when Steve called her in e2 to report what happened to Nell. It was surreal for me this time, I watched her face trying to process the information and it took her a long time to get through it. First was disbelief, then denial. At this point in time, it now struck a chord with me based on the phone call I got from my supervisor the day after Thanksgiving 2020 to tell me my friend and coworker died. (I don't envy her, she had to call a lot of people.) My friend was only 34 and in good health and died unexpectedly from COVID after-effects. I remember being stunned because it was the last thing I imagined hearing. I heard the words and understood what I was being told but my brain just kind of froze. I didn't even respond for a good 5-10 seconds, and then I remember I actually laughed at the absurdity of it all and said, "WHAT?" I already knew what. But my brain just was like, "No, I'm not hearing this. This makes no sense." It was even worse than the same experience i had when my mom called me in the morning about my dad dying, back in 2013 -- at least then, he had been in horrible health for years and I expected him to die much earlier. This was something my brain just was not prepared to process.

So I found myself this time absorbed in Shirley's facial expressions and responses to the news. It was the same thing. She heard Steve, but just didn't even know what to make of the statement, it was ridiculous gibberish even while inside she was recoiling emotionally.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

^That makes me want to watch it again.

I just put together that the guy who played Mile's and Flora's father is also Gareth Marenghi. (Matthew Holness). Too funny.

 

[Totenkindly]

Last night my son wanted to watch a creepy film, then suggested instead he was amenable to watching more Hill House.

We watched episodes 3 and 4, and I could tell he was engrossed, so I suckered him into giving him what he really wanted without really warning him - Episode 5, the Bent-Neck Lady. His response at the end was fucking awesome, and we discussed for a few minutes before bed (and he seemed okay) and now he told today that he was up for a few hours because he couldn't sleep! Bwa ha ha ha!

I found it hard to rewatch that episode. I cried a few times. It was worse knowing how everything with Nell was going to pan out, all the emotional agonies she would experience in what remained of her life, and how the huge awful macabre picture all assembled together across the tapestry of her life. Just absolutely dreadful, and my skin crawled with the alternating scenes of her dancing through the house.