The Hardest Type to be in The Enneagram

[Stansmith]

8s think they're awesome, but usually suck.

6s think they suck, but are usually awesome.

If only we could be so delusional about our self-worth...

Me + Positive outlook = god

 

[Lady_X]

Me + Positive outlook = god

i dun get it

 

[Zarathustra]

Me + Positive outlook = god

Until others start resenting you for it...

And then the paranoia starts...

And the questioning of how/whether you should tone it down.

 

[Zarathustra]

i dun get it

I do.

 

[Lady_X]

I do.

oh goody! what then?

 

[Stansmith]

i dun get it

I've got a relatively good hand in life (I could be starving or missing a limb), so as a positive-outlook e-type I'd be pretty damn happy about alot of things. As a 6 I feel like I'm just wasting and under appreciating it.

 

[Zarathustra]

The consensus seems to be that 4s have it the hardest but honestly, being a 4 seems like a piece of cake from my perspective. Being a phobic NF 6 is hell; you don't know what you want, you're plain, you're boring, a coward, you feel ugly, everything scares you, you feel like you're on a one-way trip to oblivion every consecutive day. You go through a mid-life crisis by the time you reach puberty. Unlike 4s, we don't like feeling this way. We don't make classic indie albums or pretty art house films out of our suffering, we fear it and don't know what to do with it.

Of course, all types can be insecure and indecisive, but for 6s, that's what average level looks like. Every other type at average level is either likeable, interesting or feels good about themselves (even if it's detrimental), whereas average 6s are just passive-aggressive neurotic plain janes who life life in fear 24/7.

Heres how the other types at average health compare:

1 - Decisive, they know exactly what they want and how they want to live their lives.

2 - Positive outlook. They're charitable, have great social skills and people like them.

3 - They enjoy hard work, thus achieve status easily. Everyone envies them, they get all the ho's, they're focused. Not a single day goes by where their ego isn't stroked. They're great, and they know it. I doubt their farts even smell bad.

4 - Sure, they torture themselves with emotion, but this feels good to them. It gives them a sense of purpose, it makes them feel unique. With 6s its just pure, inescapable dread that you just wish would end. They're also creative, unique and stand out, and never put a filter on their imagination. We're plain janes compared to them.

Having an identity and a solid perception of who you are>>>>>>>Being a boring confused mess

5 - They're intellegent and decisive

7 - They're positive-outlook, assertive, confident and they're always having fun without fear. They never dwell on anything. They contribute energy to a group dynamic.

8 - They're assertive, aggressive and confident.

9 - Positive outlook. People like them and they never worry about anything.


There's literally no positive twist you can give to being an average-level phobic NF 6, we pretty much have to be at extremely healthy levels to enjoy our lives and stand out as people. We're the guys rappers are reffering to when they talk about "b-tch n-ggas". Being an NT or SJ 6 is probably alright in comparison. I'm sure some people "like" us, but we're too insecure to even see that or accept it for what it is (the same goes for any positive trait or talent that we may have), and that's why I say it's a sh-tty existence.

Ok, first off, I'm proud of you for being open, and honest, and vulnerable enough to write what you have above.

Second, sack the fuck up. Eminem and Tupac are/were both enneagram 6s, so we ain't just a bunch of [punks].

Lastly, every type has it hard. Maybe some more than others, maybe not. The research I've done has actually shown 4s, 5s, and 6s to have it hardest.

 

[WALMART]

"Without any true pangs of introspection..."

What the hell does that mean?

Cuz, from where I stand, that makes you sound like you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

"Pang - A sudden sharp pain or painful emotion."

I don't believe the thinking sixes do is frequently introverted on itself, it doesn't focus on the nature of the innervation, say as you'd find in a four. I think the worry manifests externally for many sixes, much like a form of paranoia or hypochondria would.

IE sixes have trouble relating phenomena back to themselves. They find solace in external reparations.

I'm not completely knocking this, cuz I do believe in growth, but...

You do realize you're telling someone from the head center to think more...

A *huge* part of our problem is that we think too much, creating something out of nothing.

The key to moving towards health for a 6 is... well, complex.... I'll report back when I have a better understanding of it.

Meditation is a form of thinking. Not all forms are equal in utility.

 

[Nijntje]

I wouldn't say that 9's never worry about anything, it's just that we tend to be highly conflict avoidant, whether that be an overdue parking fine we're ignoring or an actual argument. We're pretty good at pretending things didn't happen and burying our heads in the sand, which can make for some spectacularly bad decisions and outcomes.

 

[Zarathustra]

oh goody! what then?

If I could just maintain a positive attitude, I would be damn near invincible.

My biggest stumbling block to that, tho, is just my dumb ass self getting in my own way.

Granted, I think I might be neurologically wired to be predisposed toward paranoia/getting in my own way (excess norepinephrine [essentially, adrenaline]).

But if I ever just actually allow/make myself maintain a positive attitude, no matter what I'm doing (work, sports, going out), I fucking kill it.

Maintaining that positive attitude is tough, tho; there are so many things trying to bring/tear it down.

 

[Stansmith]

I wouldn't say that 9's never worry about anything, it's just that we tend to be highly conflict avoidant, whether that be an overdue parking fine we're ignoring or an actual argument. We're pretty good at pretending things didn't happen and burying our heads in the sand, which can make for some spectacularly bad decisions and outcomes.

So the positive outlook in 9s is more of a facade that they show to others?

 

[Lady_X]

I've got a relatively good hand in life (I could be starving or missing a limb), so as a positive-outlook e-type I'd be pretty damn happy about alot of things. As a 6 I feel like I'm just wasting and under appreciating it.

okay sure...but god???

that's just...just...way too delusional to make any kinda sense to me that that feeling or thought is there...i mean...yeah exaggerations and all but

i'm a 7...not just a 7 but a 729 and i'm all kinds of positive and have had lots of great beautiful things in my life...but...none of it says anything about...me...i mean...in a i'm such a glorious all knowing perfect deity and ye all shall bow at my feet...kinda way haha

 

[Lady_X]

If I could just maintain a positive attitude, I would be damn near invincible.

My biggest stumbling block to that, tho, is just my dumb ass self getting in my own way.

Granted, I think I might be neurologically wired to be predisposed toward paranoia/getting in my own way (excess norepinephrine [essentially, adrenaline]).

But if I ever just actually allow/make myself maintain a positive attitude, no matter what I'm doing (work, sports, going out), I fucking kill it.

Maintaining that positive attitude is tough, tho; there are so many things trying to bring/tear it down.

okay okay...the use of god threw me...boss feels more accurate to what you mean...or fierce! with a whole swishy snap thing going on but yeah sure okay...i hear ya...

 

[violet_crown]

If only we could be so delusional about our self-worth...

Coincidently, this sentence is more or less a perfect stand-in for everything wrong with your type.

 

[Zarathustra]

"Pang - A sudden sharp pain or painful emotion."

I don't believe the thinking sixes do is frequently introverted on itself, it doesn't focus on the nature of the innervation, say as you'd find in a four. I think the worry manifests externally for many sixes, much like a form of paranoia or hypochondria would.

IE sixes have trouble relating phenomena back to themselves. They find solace in external reparations.

Just fyi, this doesn't ring true at all to me.

Not sure if you've familiarized yourself with Molina yet, but...

- you're 9II
- 4s are 4EI
- and 6s are 6SS

That's

- 9 Intrinsic Intrinsic
- 4 Extrinsic Intrinsic
- and 6 Systemic Systemic

As a 9, your focus is about as Intrinsic (akin to introverted) as it comes.

6s aren't focused Intrinsically or Extrinsically (akin to extroversion), we're focused on the Systemic dimension, which is essentially an in-between dimension, neither Intrinsic nor Extrinsic. It's like being on the edge of a knife, between one side and the other. Hence, 6s' tendency to be ambiverted. And the observation of our often "contradictory" natures, and the "bipolarity" of our thought processes.

Meditation is a form of thinking. Not all forms are equal in utility.

Exactly.

But it's also often described as a form of not-thinking.

This is what I was trying to point to with my comment.

/ just got back from yoga an hour or two ago

 

[Lady_X]

Just fyi, this doesn't ring true at all to me.

Not sure if you've familiarized yourself with Molina yet, but...

- you're 9II
- 4s are 4EI
- and 6s are 6SS

That's

- 9 Intrinsic Intrinsic
- 4 Extrinsic Intrinsic
- and 6 Systemic Systemic

As a 9, your focus is about as Intrinsic (akin to introverted) as it comes.

6s aren't focused Intrinsically or Extrinsically (akin to extroversion), we're focused on the Systemic dimension, which is essentially an in-between dimension, neither Intrinsic nor Extrinsic. It's like being on the edge of a knife, between one side and the other. Hence, 6s' tendency to be ambiverted. And the observation of our often "contradictory" natures, and the "bipolarity" of our thought processes.


Meditation is a form of thinking. Not all forms are equal in utility.

this sounds interesting...have you ever discussed this here before? i'd be interested in reading about that.

 

[Rasofy]

Lol. There's people "liking" you, and not being content with people just "liking" you. I get the sense people laugh at me instead of laughing with me, and that's a sh-t feeling. I don't wanna be a trusty sidekick or a cute golden retriever with his tongue hanging out. I'm honestly not very well-liked and never have been. This is more accurate:

1- easy
2- moderate
3-easy
4-hard
5-moderate
6-hard
7-easy
8-easy
9-easy

Nice.

I think 9s are pretty bad at voicing their needs, which is aggravated by the fact that they are relatively hard to read. Not an easy life I'd say.

I don't agree at all.

6 is fucking difficult, dude.

Try dealing with that level of projection/paranoia, even in the avg ranges.

Even if people like us, we're paranoid that they don't, and that in a moment everyone could turn against us.

I agree that 4 and 5 are fucked, but I think 6 fits pretty well in that grouping.

Granted, I'm also an INTJ, and an sx/so, which prolly doesn't help.

Fine, fine, you can join the fucked up group.

One person doesn't laugh at your joke or seems indifferent to you = "this person hates me, I'm annoying and embarassing myself. My friends are starting to distance themselves from me. I need new friends. Sh-t, I'm gonna start focusing on my screenwriting again, I don't need friends."

I'm an 18 year old male, mind you.

Interesting. I think that's an advantage 5s have over 6s - having friends is not a significant need for us, as we're able to reduce our socialization and intimacy needs to extremely low levels and remain comfortable there (avarice fixation).

 

[Zarathustra]

okay sure...but god???

that's just...just...way too delusional to make any kinda sense to me that that feeling or thought is there...i mean...yeah exaggerations and all but

i'm a 7...not just a 7 but a 729 and i'm all kinds of positive and have had lots of great beautiful things in my life...but...none of it says anything about...me...i mean...in a i'm such a glorious all knowing perfect deity and ye all shall bow at my feet...kinda way haha

okay okay...the use of god threw me...boss feels more accurate to what you mean...or fierce! with a whole swishy snap thing going on but yeah sure okay...i hear ya...

I dunno, I get where he's coming from, and actually prefer his choice of words

The thing about 6s is that double focus on the Systemic dimension.

It makes us very concerned about a Higher Order: truth, justice, etc.

So, when we are on, I think we feel a certain connection to/channeling of that Higher Order.

Which would jibe well with the idea that our Holy Virtue is Courage/Faith and our Vice Cowardice/Lack of Faith.

Coincidently, this sentence is more or less a perfect stand-in for everything wrong with your type.

Yes, the irony is duly noted.

 

[Lady_X]

I dunno, I get where he's coming from, and actually prefer his choice of words

The thing about 6s is that double focus on the Systemic dimension.

It makes us very concerned about a Higher Order: truth, justice, etc.

So, when we are on, I think we feel a certain connection to/channeling of that Higher Order.

Which would jibe well with the idea that our Holy Virtue is Courage/Faith and our Vice Cowardice/Lack of Faith.



Yes, the irony is duly noted.

okay...makes sense...was looking through my 7ish cocky tented goggles i suppose. which i guess isn't the same at all.

 

[Zarathustra]

this sounds interesting...have you ever discussed this here before? i'd be interested in reading about that.

Last Fall I read several of the chapters on vent.

I've also brought it up a number of times in different threads about the Enneagram.

It's been a long time coming that I was supposed to make a thread about it.

It's the theoretical add-on proposed by Armando Molina (Naranjo's student) in his book 'Our Ways: Values & Character'.

It's the best book on the Enneagram I've found, and the add-on is the most powerful piece of typology I have found.

Naranjo highly approves of it as well, but, unfortunately, the book is not widely known.

It costs $50, and you can only get it shipped from Europe, by the original publisher.