[ENFJ] The ENFJ shadow...

[Domino]

they respond with the Fe-Se " but don't worry about it, *joke and slap on the shoulder/disappear*

very well-said

 

[Kalach]

funny how the ENFJs concede but don't show their vulnerability
I know of three ENFJs, two of which i frequently come in contact with
and although they may relay the info like its dust in the wind
that same dust is laced with an underlining; dark and impending/palpable sorrow

they stare off into space - the room gets silent and tense
you can almost see the images they are, at least feel them
its like the Ni and Ti axis haunts them, and they respond with the Fe-Se " but don't worry about it, *joke and slap on the shoulder/disappear*

Yeah, very well said.

Being a semi-dual to that kind of ... poetic sorrow? (*cough*horseshit*cough*)... is a trial. Can see it, conspicuously lack the tools to address it.

I say the dark side is there. I say it is the murky, turbid, heaving pool from which judgment arises. It has to be, doesn't it? If feeling is the source of judgment, there has sometimes to be negative judgment, yeah? Accentuating the positive doesn't make you positive all the way through, it makes for positive messaging.


Knowing. That's what ENFJs are. They're knowing. Like INFJs but without ever taking the opportunity to rest and face what is chasing them.

Or perhaps the shadow is only when things go wrong. But only an infant has nothing go wrong and even ENFJs have memories... actually, probably long, long memories...

 

[chris1207]

funny how the ENFJs concede but don't show their vulnerability
I know of three ENFJs, two of which i frequently come in contact with
and although they may relay the info like its dust in the wind
that same dust is laced with an underlining; dark and impending/palpable sorrow

they stare off into space - the room gets silent and tense
you can almost see the images they are, at least feel them
its like the Ni and Ti axis haunts them, and they respond with the Fe-Se " but don't worry about it, *joke and slap on the shoulder/disappear*

YouTube - Radiohead How to Disappear Completely Video Kid A

That song right there is how, I, as an ENFJ, feel when things don't go right and I become disillusioned and introspective. You can't sum it up more perfectly than that in that song. It's really one of my favorites.

In other words, it may just be as simple as ENFJs wanting things to run smoothly, and therefore getting stressed out if he or she feels they're not. So they try to fix it, even amongst their perceived discomfort. The shadow is not judgement, but the ambiguity of P. They'd have trouble allowing a situation to run with some of the flexibility and kinks and movement and (somewhat) conflict; having looming fears since they're so aware of the consequences unpredicted outcomes could bring.

Excellent post. I couldn't help but go, "Damn! She hit the nail on the head with that one!" Being spontaneous is scary for me but I know it's something I'm going to have to learn. Now I just need some XXXP friends! Any takers?

 

[wolfmaiden14]

Knowing. That's what ENFJs are. They're knowing. Like INFJs but without ever taking the opportunity to rest and face what is chasing them.

<resentment..sorry XD> Oh, so THAT'S where the double standards come from.. </end resentment>


What makes feeling the source of judgment? I can see thinking quite easily making judgments as well, although those might be better worded as "conclusions."

also, thanks Chris.

 

[The Third Rider]

I got lost somewhere. I still don't understand the question, but I really want to know the answer!

Uhm, as far as I CAN understand it.. perhaps the anxiety is a sort of empathy? They put themselves in the middle of the action, so to speak, because they feel some smoothness is NOT taking place, and therefore attempt to soothe such distress(which they are currently expressing) in typical ENFJ fashion.

In other words, it may just be as simple as ENFJs wanting things to run smoothly, and therefore getting stressed out if he or she feels they're not. So they try to fix it, even amongst their perceived discomfort. The shadow is not judgement, but the ambiguity of P. They'd have trouble allowing a situation to run with some of the flexibility and kinks and movement and (somewhat) conflict; having looming fears since they're so aware of the consequences unpredicted outcomes could bring.

LOL that happens to me almost every morning when commuting to my job. It NEVER runs smoothly and something always happens and I lose "valuable" minutes and I get pissed off. Don't talk to me when I ride to work I might bite your head off.lol i need things running "according to plan".

 

[Poki]

Are you talking about the ENFJ shadow when you piss one off and all of a sudden they get this stare where you swear there trying to figure out ways to physically hurt you and you cant help but get an "oh shit, I did it now" feeling.

LOL that happens to me almost every morning when commuting to my job. It NEVER runs smoothly and something always happens and I lose "valuable" minutes and I get pissed off. Don't talk to me when I ride to work I might bite your head off.lol i need things running "according to plan".

I car pool to work with an ENFJ(wife) and they will bite your head off.

 

[Kalach]

What makes feeling the source of judgment?

Fe?

I can see thinking quite easily making judgments as well, although those might be better worded as "conclusions."

Yeah, and I can see knee jerk Fe whitewashing bad feeling.

What can I tell ya, people--I use Fi and ENFJs look crazy, especially when you're scrambling to recover a losing situation.

On the other hand, I do know a venerable ENFJ. She'll be 68 sometime soon. The anxiety vibe in her is much, much more under control--like a source of energy rather than torment. She almost comes off ENTJ, what with the robust bluntness of her decisions about who to be interested in and when. And she has a sense of humour.


(over and above her willingness to dominate).


Edit: I dunno, y'all... I'm just guessing stuff here. Following up patterns, fitting them into consequences, making sense.

Fe is so damn programmatic, it's hard to tell the truth from the propaganda other than by working out when I'm right to feel wrong.

 

[chris1207]

Are you talking about the ENFJ shadow when you piss one off and all of a sudden they get this stare where you swear there trying to figure out ways to physically hurt you and you cant help but get an "oh shit, I did it now" feeling.

That's just us being disillusioned that you would knock us down like that and not take our feelings into consideration. It's kind of like our internal processor is lagging a bit to detach all the shit you've ever told us that we've intuitively interpolated and just declare it as nonsense. I wouldn't piss an ENFJ off like that too much or you may lose them.

I never encounter it being an ENFJ myself but I can imagine it being scary.

 

[Domino]

There's nothing that will send me further or faster into the grip than someone telling me that I'm being dramatic and that my feelings are ridiculous, esp when I'm already scorched and can't get my balance back.

 

[Littlelostnf]

That's just us being disillusioned that you would knock us down like that and not take our feelings into consideration. It's kind of like our internal processor is lagging a bit to detach all the shit you've ever told us that we've intuitively interpolated and just declare it as nonsense. I wouldn't piss an ENFJ off like that too much or you may lose them.

I never encounter it being an ENFJ myself but I can imagine it being scary.

Hmmm I have had it happen to me..and way before I ever got pissed off I was hurt beyond anything...took a long time to get to pissed off...and just as long for that person to lose me...and after they lost me I finally got back to me. It's only the ones that are wayyyy close to me that could make me feel that way...anyone else...well they may wish they'd never messed with me or my feelings. :steam:

 

[jtanSis1]

The perfectionistic tendencies run deep in ENFJ. They want to keep doing the right thing, so will accept the damage. The shadow is a chance to restore that balance by removing the damage. Not exactly the best way, but effective nonetheless. ENFJ's have a hard time letting go without some form of return to whatever effects them. Their world may seem scary and dark because they build up everything that happens to them till it gets too much to handle. However, they choose to release everything at once to the next occurance. When things get stressful for me, I know I have to release it soon or it will eat at me. I think the difference is that ENFJ's hold it in like INFP's but don't just ignore it or deal with it constructively, trying to think they can handle it. ENFJ's soon learn to like the darkness and live in it, while INFP's in the same dark world try to fight it by accepting it as a part of them and letting it go. INFP's are actually just as dark as ENFJ's, we just try not to change or become the darkness like other types, but live with it as a part of ourselves and try to move on.

 

[Thursday]

ENFJ darkside anthem?

[youtube=paAzGM9szNk]Ani Difranco - Joyful Girl[/youtube]

i do it for the joy it brings
because i'm a joyful girl
because the world owes me nothing
and we owe each other the world
i do it because it's the least i can do
i do it because i learned it from you
and i do it just because i want to
because i want to

everything i do is judged
and they mostly get it wrong
but oh well
'cuz the bathroom mirror has not budged
and the woman who lives there can tell
the truth from the stuff that they say
and she looks me in the eye
and says would you prefer the easy way
no, well o.k. then
don't cry

i wonder if everything i do
i do instead
of something i want to do more
the question fills my head
i know there's no grand plan here
this is just the way it goes
when everything else seems unclear
i guess at least i know

i do it for the joy it brings
because i'm a joyful girl
because the world owes me nothing
and we owe each other the world
i do it because it's the least i can do
i do it because i learned it from you
and i do it just because i want to
because i want to

 

[SpottingTrains]

funny how the ENFJs concede but don't show their vulnerability
I know of three ENFJs, two of which i frequently come in contact with
and although they may relay the info like its dust in the wind
that same dust is laced with an underlining; dark and impending/palpable sorrow

they stare off into space - the room gets silent and tense
you can almost see the images they are, at least feel them
its like the Ni and Ti axis haunts them, and they respond with the Fe-Se " but don't worry about it, *joke and slap on the shoulder/disappear*

Very accurate, usually during the course of those few moments of silence my brain goes something like this:

Would they understand? no
Do they care? who knows
Should I try to explain? no
Carry on as normal? yes

 

[Domino]

Very accurate, usually during the course of those few moments of silence my brain goes something like this:

Would they understand? no
Do they care? who knows
Should I try to explain? no
Carry on as normal? yes

I did this very thing last night.

I was speaking to someone I care very much about, and this was like the third or fourth time they'd run me over or marginalized me. I admit my defenses are rock bottom low right now, so I just retreated further and further into myself. I almost completely stopped speaking. All I could say to my sister about it was that I was really hurt and unsure of what I had exposed to attack so I back up and back up to get out of danger. It's like I go into lockdown, overpowered by Fe like my face has been slapped. I just stand there, with the bullets flying past and can't move.

My sister compares it to that scene in "A Christmas Story" where little Randy crawls under the kitchen sink and won't come back out because he's so upset. She calls it my "Randy under the kitchen sink" mode and hates it when it happens because it's not like me to get beaten and turtle up. She says my eyes get really big and I stop speaking.

Would they understand? - I thought so but they don't...
Do they care? - they've chosen not to... why...
Should I try to explain? - no.... run, back up, GO NOW
Carry on as normal? - DO IT and don't cry

 

[SpottingTrains]

I was speaking to someone I care very much about, and this was like the third or fourth time they'd run me over or marginalized me. I admit my defenses are rock bottom low right now, so I just retreated further and further into myself. I almost completely stopped speaking. All I could say to my sister about it was that I was really hurt and unsure of what I had exposed to attack so I back up and back up to get out of danger. It's like I go into lockdown, overpowered by Fe like my face has been slapped. I just stand there, with the bullets flying past and can't move.

Yep, exactly, an emotional lockdown. Usually happens to me whenever someone makes an offhand comment about me, almost always in jest but the result is the same. I will just get very quiet and won't move but I will continue to stare at them "with the bullets flying past" and try to comprehend what just happened. It literally takes me at least 10 seconds to internalize what they just said and actually continue on with the conversation. It actually feels exactly like getting slapped.

 

[Domino]

Yep, exactly, an emotional lockdown. Usually happens to me whenever someone makes an offhand comment about me, almost always in jest but the result is the same. I will just get very quiet and won't move but I will continue to stare at them "with the bullets flying past" and try to comprehend what just happened. It literally takes me at least 10 seconds to internalize what they just said and actually continue on with the conversation. It actually feels exactly like getting slapped.

I try and try to explain that very thing to "outsiders", but I can't. That kind of breakdown is so sudden. It's humiliation or bad surprise at it's worst. I hate being ambushed. I hate it even more when I can't play it off but I can't summon anger to take care of it either. 100% pure mortification. And my Ni seems to draw it in toward my vital areas.

I remember that happening once - someone I really admired and looked up to slighted me horribly (and unintentionally, didn't realize they'd done it) in front of some of my friends. It was so stunning and painful that I went from joking around to just standing there trying to force a smile back on my reddened face before I lost my composure.

I made some cavalier joking remark, and then began my retreat. An INTP in the group, the minute the cruel blow fell, jerked his head up from the transmission he was working on, stared hard at me, really pained. He kept hunting for my eyes but I wouldn't look at him. I knew I'd cry if I did and I didn't want to break down in front of everyone.

 

[Thursday]

are the video and lyrics i posted accurate?

 

[Domino]

are the video and lyrics i posted accurate?

she looks me in the eye
and says would you prefer the easy way
no, well o.k. then
don't cry

That, esp.

 

[Thursday]

she looks me in the eye
and says would you prefer the easy way
no, well o.k. then
don't cry

That, esp.

My Ni heard that and said " ENFJ shadow "

 

[SpottingTrains]

are the video and lyrics i posted accurate?

I can't concentrate on the words that much when I am listening to the music for some reason and reading the words just by themselves without the music doesn't really connect with me. Not saying that it doesn't accurately describe me but I just can't relate to something that way.

Right now The Unforgiven by Metallica would be the best song to describe what you are trying to put your finger on, for me at least.

YouTube - Metallica - The Unforgiven

It's humiliation or bad surprise at it's worst. I hate being ambushed. I hate it even more when I can't play it off but I can't summon anger to take care of it either.

The worst part for me is that no matter how much you prepare for it you still can't do anything to avoid it. You can say, "Ok, I'm not going to freeze up, they are just screwing around" but the same thing still happens. I just can't disassociate myself from what they say quick enough.