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The Dangerous Case Of Donald Trump

anticlimatic

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Notice, we haven't heard a peep from the N. Korean dictator since the drone attack. Bullies and dictators only respond to force. The last administration attempted to buy off the Iranians by paying them tens of billions of dollars. I'm not sure why Dems still don't understand that you can't appease dictators.

I don't think they understand how conflict in general works. All of my left leaning peers- bless their hearts- have zero clue how to fight. The very thought of it makes them lock up with terror. The media reflected this back at them over this incident quite well with all the "WW3 is coming!" fear mongering.
 

Virtual ghost

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Trump Reportedly Authorized Soleimani Killing 7 Months Ago

lol of course there is no imminent threat. Only the idiot media bought that lie.



Not to mention that the general was replaced within hours and ww3 was indeed on the table. The war that US can't really afford at the moment, from economic and geopolitical perspective.
In the case that Iran decided to take one for the team the USA would have been dragged into a serious mess.
 

Jaguar

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AP FACT CHECK: Trump revisits old fictions about Iran money

Here’s what the president doesn’t tell you:

—The $1.8 (actually $1.7 billion) was a debt owed to Iran, which bought military equipment from the U.S. that it never received because relations ruptured when the shah was overthrown in 1979.

—The debt was in international arbitration for years. As part of that, Iran paid settlements of more than $2.5 billion to U.S. citizens and businesses.

—$400 million, representing the principal and held in a U.S. government trust fund, was paid in cash and flown to Tehran on a cargo plane, which gave rise to Trump’s dramatic accounts of money stuffed in barrels or boxes and delivered in the dead of night.

—The remaining $1.3 billion, representing interest accrued over nearly 40 years, was paid separately. In order not to violate U.S. regulations barring direct U.S. dollar transfers to Iranian banks, the money was remitted to Iran in late January and early February 2016 in foreign hard currency from the central banks of the Netherlands and of Switzerland, according to the Congressional Research Service .


Conspiracy theory-free facts.
 

anticlimatic

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Not to mention that the general was replaced within hours and ww3 was indeed on the table. The war that US can't really afford at the moment, from economic and geopolitical perspective. In the case that Iran decided to take one for the team the USA would have been dragged into a serious mess.
I don't know...I know it's supposed to come with 40 virgins or whatever, but I don't think Iran's leaders are that suicidal. They would all be dead within weeks of open war. Trump has been bending over backwards to avoid getting sucked into a Middle East conflict, and especially after pulling out of aphganistan, if I was Iran and vying for control over Iraq I'd perceive that as an exploitable weakness and push hard to see if I could get the states out of there as well. The Soleimani hit could not have been more perfectly timed or executed. He was the perfect combination of high rank- to give other leaders a reason to fear for their own lives regarding their decisions- and terrorist garbage, so nobody in the general population will miss him enough to enlist for battle. It put Iran on such a degree of tilt as to shoot down one of its own passenger jets and endanger the regime all the more. Everything about this was a slam dunk for the United States. I celebrated Obama killing osama bin laden. This doesn't have to be a partisan issue.

Speaking of, there's a lot of people on the right that have a problem with calling this an assassination. I don't really understand the argument there. What else was it?
 

Z Buck McFate

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The media reflected this back at them over this incident quite well with all the "WW3 is coming!" fear mongering.

Can anyone give a link to an example of the media warning about WW3?

I personally hear a lot more fear mongering about "socialism" and "communism". I don't know if they get it from conservative media but I've seen it coming directly from Trump (and McConnell, etc - fear mongering is unfortunately an effective way to energize support) and from political attack ads. There's a greater chance Trump's ignorance and dull buffoonery could inadvertently start WW3 than Bernie (or any of them) could turn the U.S. into full blown communists - yet I see a lot more fear mongering of the latter. (Which is why I'm asking for links, maybe I just haven't seen this WW3 mongering).
 

Jaguar

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Trump: Clinton's foreign policy plan would start WW3


WW3! No, Donnie. No! Say it isn't so!
 

ceecee

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Can anyone give a link to an example of the media warning about WW3?


This claim come from a person that proudly professes to not watch or read any news.


I saw plenty WWIII on social media. I saw nothing from MSM at all. I did see CNN, MSNBC and all the network news allowing liars like Mike Pompeo and Mike Pence control the narrative that there was "imminent threats" and even several embassies being threatened with annihilation within the next 15 minutes. All. Lies. And I'm so fucking tired of the media giving any time or credence to a word these lying cunts say. If they were to tell the admin - Yeah let us know when you have proof, then we can talk - that would stop so much of the bullshit. But they won't.

I personally hear a lot more fear mongering about "socialism" and "communism". I don't know if they get it from conservative media but I've seen it coming directly from Trump (and McConnell, etc - fear mongering is unfortunately an effective way to energize support) and from political attack ads. There's a greater chance Trump's ignorance and dull buffoonery could inadvertently start WW3 than Bernie (or any of them) could turn the U.S. into full blown communists - yet I see a lot more fear mongering of the latter. (Which is why I'm asking for links, maybe I just haven't seen this WW3 mongering)

Oh yes. And people are still unable to differentiate between actual news and the NYT Opinion page full of David Brooks and Bret Stephens blah blah blah and I'm a republican so the Democrats better run someone I can vote for! And I don't like swiss cheese so it must be socialist! If you even look at Bernie you'll become a communist! It's wild how Bernie predicted everything the right, moderate Dems, conservatives and neocons are now doing.

I would be willing to bet the vast majority of people that call whatever they don't like socialism have never read anything on it nor could they give me the definition of the term. Or communism for that matter.
 

Jaguar

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Bob Corker Says Trump’s Recklessness Threatens ‘World War III’


Damn Democrats. WW3 fearmongering, again.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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We're already in WWIII, it's been going on for a while. Nukes probably won't be used, but if they are, that will be the end of the war, not the beginning.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Oh yes. And people are still unable to differentiate between actual news and the NYT Opinion page full of David Brooks and Bret Stephens blah blah blah and I'm a republican so the Democrats better run someone I can vote for! And I don't like swiss cheese so it must be socialist! If you even look at Bernie you'll become a communist! It's wild how Bernie predicted everything the right, moderate Dems, conservatives and neocons are now doing.

I would be willing to bet the vast majority of people that call whatever they don't like socialism have never read anything on it nor could they give me the definition of the term. Or communism for that matter.

Brooks wrote a piece against socialism maybe a month back and it was the first time it's seen a cogent argument against it (and when I say "it", I'm referring to the actual concept of socialism - not the apocalyptic doomsday skulls-strewn-on-the-road-as-far-as-the-eye-can-see ersatz communism concept that Trump/McConnell are pushing). But even that was referring to something extreme. (It argued that absolute socialism discourages innovation, and there might be some merit in that).

But yeah, it's just frustrating to see the word "socialism" get weaponized so that people hear it and instantly feel so afraid they can't even seem to handle thinking about what they're hearing; it's just bad and spooky and anything my party labels "socialist" must be stopped before we turn into the Soviet Republic. And yeah, all without being actually able to define it.
 

anticlimatic

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Can anyone give a link to an example of the media warning about WW3? I personally hear a lot more fear mongering about "socialism" and "communism". I don't know if they get it from conservative media but I've seen it coming directly from Trump (and McConnell, etc - fear mongering is unfortunately an effective way to energize support) and from political attack ads. There's a greater chance Trump's ignorance and dull buffoonery could inadvertently start WW3 than Bernie (or any of them) could turn the U.S. into full blown communists - yet I see a lot more fear mongering of the latter. (Which is why I'm asking for links, maybe I just haven't seen this WW3 mongering).

As someone mentioned, I don't go near MSM myself. I just assumed it was the case based on my leftist peers social media postings over the last few days, considering MSM is where they all collectively get their marching orders and narriative. One of my friends actually lost sleep over the whole thing. I mean come on- why let those clowns, who have almost no record of forecasting anything with any accuracy, do that to you? If they didn't specifically mention WW3, you know that was the thought they were hoping to inspire. I can't watch the weather channel anymore for the same reasons. All these inflated statistics just to keep people afraid and watching. It's disgusting. You can say the same thing about Fox News- but if you think they're special somehow because they're 'evil conservative' you're not seeing things clearly.

As for socialism, I mean- it is responsible for the deaths of millions, so maybe team left aught to just come up with something that isn't and make sure it has its own name. Maybe the Black Plague can cure erectile dysfunction when used just right, but nobody is ever going to be interested in finding out.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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When did it start, in your opinion?

I want to say 2003, but possibly before that. We're living in an age of prolonged "police actions" and decentralized paramilitary organizations that don't really operate by the old school rules of engagement, so it becomes more difficult to pinpoint when you don't have convenient chapter-starting events like declarations of war that easily fit on a timeline. It would be stretching it, but you could push the date back to the 90s or even into the 80s. The USA in particular has been involved in almost non-stop small scale conflicts of some form since the late 20th century. Not to mention the conflicts we weren't directly involved in, but in which we backed a smaller gov't--those go back to the cold war.
 

Virtual ghost

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I don't know...I know it's supposed to come with 40 virgins or whatever, but I don't think Iran's leaders are that suicidal. They would all be dead within weeks of open war. Trump has been bending over backwards to avoid getting sucked into a Middle East conflict, and especially after pulling out of aphganistan, if I was Iran and vying for control over Iraq I'd perceive that as an exploitable weakness and push hard to see if I could get the states out of there as well. The Soleimani hit could not have been more perfectly timed or executed. He was the perfect combination of high rank- to give other leaders a reason to fear for their own lives regarding their decisions- and terrorist garbage, so nobody in the general population will miss him enough to enlist for battle. It put Iran on such a degree of tilt as to shoot down one of its own passenger jets and endanger the regime all the more. Everything about this was a slam dunk for the United States. I celebrated Obama killing osama bin laden. This doesn't have to be a partisan issue.

Speaking of, there's a lot of people on the right that have a problem with calling this an assassination. I don't really understand the argument there. What else was it?




I don't think you realize the size of avalanche that could have come out of this (and it still can due to threats and promises of restarting the nuclear program).
First of all Iran aren't really terrorists, they are country of decent size and power that is hostile to USA for decades. Second, you presume that USA is some kind of almighty force that can do anything. While if that were true all of these conflicts would have been won long ago. USA has power but that power at this point is spread pretty thin around most of the world. Therefore for open fight with Iran you would need to divert forces from elsewhere to push into this. Because once you start you have to go all the way in leveling their regime and taking full control over mountain country that is almost 3 size of Texas. In other words if you don't go all the way you are risking that their proxies and pockets troll you all over the place for years. (just like Iraq)



Another problem is the wider picture since this isn't really just a show between US and Iran. If the total war starts it is possible that someone will help Iran, especially their key allies Russia and China. Therefore if they just decide to supply them well that will be real pain in the ass for US and its plans for middle east. This is why I mentioned "taking one for the team". Another awkward element is India which traditionally gets a fair chunk of it's oil from Iran. Therefore if US creates mess there they have directly struck into Indian interests. While India itself is currently fairly undecided if it will go more with the west or East (India is decently armed nuclear power with over 4 times more people than USA). Similar situation is also in Europe that sees itself less and less as US ally because your president is the only party out of what I believe to be 7 of them that broke away in the nuclear deal (and many other international deals). The deal wasn't perfect but it perhaps should have been renegotiated, since now Iran has openly said that it will continue the nuclear program. What means that the total war is basically certain on the long run. However if USA creates another mess in the middle east with refugees the Europe will turn it's back on you (especially if Trump is re-eleted). The same works for Turkey that is already basically gone and is US rival.




However if Europe, India and some smaller countries turn away from USA it's global dominance is over. It is 300 million Americans vs 4500+ million Euro-asians, what is economic fight you can't possibly win even if you have 0 zero debts (what isn't the case). Most of the world already thinks that US is factor of instability and if US creates another mess that will have consequences. Therefore if Iran decided to react and take one for the team due to internal struggles or whatever the USA would be in serious problems. While their leaders can probably always run into neighboring Russia. Plus already mentioned moving of troops would leave US vulnerable in other regions. What opens the path for local renegotiations and new influences. While even more problems will come from jumping oil prices, already too big budget deficit and less will to trade with US. Therefore entire American policy towards Iran is basically one big playing with fire while you are covered in gasoline.




Here is something fresh to think about. The whole EU is thinking about going East and generally against USA. If China and Russia make a few good moves and USA bad ones the Europe will probably shift sides. What is already happening on local levels in some places throughout Europe.


Europe’s moment of truth with China
 

Jaguar

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The Soleimani hit could not have been more perfectly timed or executed. He was the perfect combination of high rank- to give other leaders a reason to fear for their own lives regarding their decisions- and terrorist garbage, so nobody in the general population will miss him enough to enlist for battle.

5e1460a7855cc240c82be973



Only a few friends showed up at the funeral.

Iran Soleimani funeral crowds indicate how hard Iran may strike back - Business Insider
 

Tellenbach

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We have air superiority; Iran knows this. They deliberately fired missiles that would miss targets because they know that if we bomb their 3 oil refineries, they'll starve and the people will rise up.
 

Z Buck McFate

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As for socialism, I mean- it is responsible for the deaths of millions, so maybe team left aught to just come up with something that isn't and make sure it has its own name. Maybe the Black Plague can cure erectile dysfunction when used just right, but nobody is ever going to be interested in finding out.

I want to yell, "Are you SHITTING me?!" I was thinking the average hysteria revolved around not wanting to wait in line for 3 hours for 3 rolls of toilet paper (Soviet Russia), and even that's a histrionic fear about something that'll never happen. Are you really saying you believe the policies Bernie wants to implement can kill even a single person? eta: Do you even know how, or is it just a general fear that socialism kills people? /eta

I don't know what to tell you except that anyone who would say that clearly has no idea what "democratic socialism" is, that you maybe even think "socialism" and "communism" are interchangeable (because your response isn't even accurate about absolute socialism), and it's hard not to see your response as an example of how effective the fear mongering is.

I'm guessing you aren't aware of how many people currently die as a direct result of not having access to medical attention and/or medication (in the more 'free market's model)? That's what Democrats/ Medicare For All is trying to fix.

Also eta: seems about time to mention again that I appreciate you taking the time to answer my posts, to hopefully reinstall good faith. :laugh:
 
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