The boogieman, Jungian archetypes, instincts, dreams, and other subjective "reality"

[ygolo]

The boogieman, Jungian archetypes, instincts, dreams, and other subjective "reality"

In recent days, I have been impressed by the consistency of my own subjective reality, as well as those of others.

I've recently had the opportunity to listen to a fairly large number of people who are going through psychological problems tell their stories. What is remarkable to me is how consistent people's subjective representations are.

Consider the following phenomenon:
1) Literature, Art, Moviews, and even video games almost seem to follow formulas, even when people are trying to be original.
2) If one takes the time to imagine ones own "spirit guide," he or she is remarkably consistent in representation.
3) Some people have very long term trends and desires that plague them in rather consistent forms.
4) Dreams that repeatedly crop-up during a period of time, have a remarkable consistancy in theme.
5) Synchronicity is a phenomenon many people experience, and taking note of it is often quite beneficial to people in that these moments reveal a lot about themselves.
6) "The" placebo effect has very real healing properties. Even Shaman remedies with no scientific basis often work because of some placebo effect.

Psychology may not be as "scientific" as many other subjects that purport to be science, but perhaps that is the wrong thing to try to be.

Anyone else believe the study of one's own subjective reality, as well as that of others can yeild great insights in themselves?

If so, let us explore parts of each others subjective worlds (whatever you're willing to share).

Have you tried lucid dreaming? What images come-up on a regular basis?

What characters in literature, TV, movies, etc. do you identify with?

Have you tried any NLP imaging? If so what have you tried? What were the results?

Imagine a "sheild" that you can put around yourself or others when you feel either you or them require protection. What does it look/feel/sound/smell like?

How about your "container" for feelings when the become overwhelming?

How about your "future self"? What does he or she look/feel/sound/smell like when you imagine him/her?

Have you ever given shape, color, smell, bodily location to your feelings? If so how did the feelings represent themselves to you?

How consistent were these things? What is the symbolism? What do they reveal to you?

 

[nolla]

You ask some hard questions and I am not quite sure of what you are getting at with a couple of them. I'll try... tell me if I do it wrong

3) Some people have very long term trends and desires that plague them in rather consistent forms.
4) Dreams that repeatedly crop-up during a period of time, have a remarkable consistancy in theme.
5) Synchronicity is a phenomenon many people experience, and taking note of it is often quite beneficial to people in that these moments reveal a lot about themselves.
6) "The" placebo effect has very real healing properties. Even Shaman remedies with no scientific basis often work because of some placebo effect.

I'm not sure what you mean by "long term trends and desires". Only thing I can think of is something like... I have been trying to break many of my psychological boundaries, fears and such, for a long time now. It feels like a "mission" of some kind. Opening up to everything. To not be limited by my false fears. Is this the kind of "trend" you were looking for?

Something close to synchronicity is that I experience "themes" in my life. Everything seems to be concentrated on some main plot and the other plots go on the background. I had my "look after the family" theme, the "explore the world" theme and so on.

My dreams are rare, but I once wrote all of them down (as far as I could remember) and they had some similarities. There is an occurring theme of going into the past (temples and thousand-year-old forests, dinosaurs), a theme of sitting in a vehicle not controlled by me, a theme of finding something "magical" or valuable. As far as I can figure out, it has been about me going into my past correcting things and finding myself.

Anyone else believe the study of one's own subjective reality, as well as that of others can yeild great insights in themselves?

I believe in this, yeah.

Have you tried lucid dreaming? What images come-up on a regular basis?

I tried and nothing came up.

What characters in literature, TV, movies, etc. do you identify with?

The more wimpy guy in Fight Club, Dexter, The woman in Dogville.

Imagine a "sheild" that you can put around yourself or others when you feel either you or them require protection. What does it look/feel/sound/smell like?

I tried this once and it didn't work. And it goes against my "opening up" theme

How about your "container" for feelings when the become overwhelming?

I feel anxiety in my chest when it happens.

How about your "future self"? What does he or she look/feel/sound/smell like when you imagine him/her?

The only image I get is an old guy who tries to help the young. That is like way way out in the future.

Have you ever given shape, color, smell, bodily location to your feelings? If so how did the feelings represent themselves to you?

Mostly in my chest, I guess.

How consistent were these things? What is the symbolism? What do they reveal to you?

Well, yeah there's a long term theme. I want to get rid of my self-built walls so that I can be better at "life". I guess the Jungian thinking is deep-rooted in me, since the digging of the past has been one of my ways to do this even before I knew who Jung was. I think the old stuff in my dreams is this. When I sit in the car it means I don't control my life, my fears control it. I was once in a limo and there were these two men in black who showed me a video of me doing something silly while drunk. They were obviously my "shame" telling me to stop. They were in control of my life (the limo). The "magical" and valuable is my true self that I am supposed to find.

 

[ygolo]

Well I did ask a lot of questios there. Once again, interpret them as you wish.

The idea is to share your subjective reality.

So I will answer my questions:

Have you tried lucid dreaming? What images come-up on a regular basis?
I tried lucid dreaming once, it is recorded in my blog here:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/blogs/ygolo/311-why-won-t-my-dreams-die.html

The theme of lightning shows up often in my visualization.

What characters in literature, TV, movies, etc. do you identify with?
I generally identify the geeks, dorks, scientists, engineers in the stories. I have done so long before I was an engineer. I also identify with the charachter that have Aspergers, like Bob from Regenesis. I really identified with Lt. Comander Data, and somewhat with Spock and Picard from Star Trek.

Have you tried any NLP imaging? If so what have you tried? What were the results?

I've done many of the activities like the ones below. One particular one had to do with imagining pushing my loneliness outside my body to see if it would stay away. The loneliness was a splotchy blue tha covered my torso and legs, I pushed the loneliness away, and the splothy blue turned into a splotchy red, and I felt more motivated. However, I was not able to push it away permanently.

Imagine a "sheild" that you can put around yourself or others when you feel either you or them require protection. What does it look/feel/sound/smell like?

My sheild when I first imagined it was spheirical feild of lightning sparking all around myself and what ever else I wanted to protect.

When I imagined it over and over again, the lightning started to cover more and more surface area, till it finally became a sphere.

After a few more rounds of imagining it, the color went from blueish to white to clear. Now its is like a forcefeild that I can choose to let things come in or not.

How about your "container" for feelings when they become overwhelming?

Mine is a large sturdy wooden chest, like a pirate's treasure chest. To store and contain my feelings, I open the chest and my feelings get sucked into it in plumes of greyish white smoke. They are stored there for safe-keeping, till te appropriate time.

How about your "future self"? What does he or she look/feel/sound/smell like when you imagine him/her?

My future self is a dual person.

Depending on how I look at him, he is either
1) a young man about my age with a really big bushy beard in a slightly tight gray suit and a big goofy grin on his face, or
2) an old sage with a big white beard wearing traditional Indian clothing of all white. He looks like a mix of me and my dad. He is barefoot, and always seems to be standing on a beach.

When I first started imagining my future self, there was a third person. A muscular/buff version of myself, clean-shaven, either naked or in swiming trunks (yellow and green) alternatively swiming under water near the surface against the waves, or in a sensory depravation tank with water soothingly at body temperature and electrodes stuck to his head.

This guy rarely shows up now.

None of these future selves wears glasses (except the young bearded guy once in a while), which I just realized, is a bit odd.

Have you ever given shape, color, smell, bodily location to your feelings? If so how did the feelings represent themselves to you?

Besides the loneliness (mentioned earlier), a feeling I have a vivid account of is a sense of calm. It is like water droming into a very still body of water, a nice blueish clear color for the water, situated near the back of the spine. I can here a slow drip, and it smells like wet rain.

How consistent were these things? What is the symbolism? What do they reveal to you?

I am not entirely sure of the symbolism, but these icons are reasonably consistent over time.

 

[nolla]

Ah, ok, now I understand some of the questions better. I don't think I'll need to change my answers, though.

The symbolism of http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/blogs/ygolo/311-why-won-t-my-dreams-die.html seem to me a bit like the shadow. Freezing it (detaching you from your emotions, or repressing them) makes it stronger and uncontrollable. (I might be projecting, though, so don't take my word for it) You also have "white fog" in the chest, plus you feel your emotions are "blue" and "water". White, blue and water are all cold (to me at least). This seems to back up the detachment theory.

 

[entropie]

Booogie

 

[nolla]

Entropie!! Not the place for posters!! Arrr! Serious discussion dammit!:steam:

 

[entropie]

sry, I am actually quite good doing the Boogie

 

[nolla]

And you should be sleeping right now. I know because I should too.

(No sir, I can't Boogie)

 

[entropie]

you are right mam. Will go now aswell. Just have to finish off those guys at my card game who still think they are going to win

 

[nolla]

Beat them for me.

It means that just before you throw the perfect hand on the table, you yell "This is for nolla!"

 

[kuranes]

1) Literature, Art, Moviews, and even video games almost seem to follow formulas, even when people are trying to be original.

True. This is an interesting topic. Half of the reasons for this can be explained easily, as consciously done things in order to make the story more marketable. But the other half....

2) If one takes the time to imagine ones own "spirit guide," he or she is remarkably consistent in representation.

I have never tried to imagine what my spirit guide might look like.

4) Dreams that repeatedly crop-up during a period of time, have a remarkable consistancy in theme.

This is true. There are quite a number of themes, though, in my case, versus only a few. Some of the repeat themes for me are also classic themes for others as well.

( 1. ) Being at a school, and going to a class that I have avoided for a long time, and then finding out that there is going to be a test that day, for example. Me hoping that I can "play it by ear" and get through the test that way.

( 2. ) Sometimes I attempt to play an instrument this way also, in a dream, and amazingly am able to play simple tunes on it, all the while believing that I will screw up at any moment, in my improvisations.

( 3. ) Being at a school and feeling as though I have missed some technicalities, and so will not graduate when originally expected to do so.

( 4. ) Flying to various places through a will power, versus flapping my arms, or having wings. Floating instead of falling, is related to this. Occasionally even bouncing over large distances, via trampoline action on telephone wires or other things around. ( A sub-theme is that whenever I fly, I must always worry about these overhead wires. )

( 5. ) Being in a museum on a tour, and sneaking away from the tour group to go off on my own into hallways that lead underground eventually, and morphing from being examples of Egyptian tombs, for example, into being actual large places where one seems to have left the "museum" concept behind. Then I am being chased by mummies through long tunnels that branch confusingly like mazes.

( 6. ) Being at a job where I am not certain what is expected of me, or even what I am supposed to do, and feeling like many of my co-workers are possibly doing the same, but unwilling to admit it. Strange "office politics" that come out of these places. Contrast this with the theme of being under a lot of pressure to find such a job, but wandering around with no transportation and no luck in getting such work for sure. The urge to just say "fuck it" to the whole mess and just go somewhere and do what I want - merely "going through the motions" of having done so.

( 7. ) Going back to school and having to find off campus housing, which involves sharing living space with eccentric strangers.

( 8. ) Going across the country to California, and or some other long trip, and the funny places and people one meets along the way.

( 9. ) Encountering places that I have seen before in dreams but don't remember that well. Trying to drive on busy roads and not get lost, based on such vague memories of the "map". I recognize the theme Ygolo mentioned, of being in a vehicle I do not have control over. Typically I will have "partial control", though. I am trying to drive as though with my feet in the back seat, with access to the steering wheel but not the brakes or gas. Or having access to various pedals and buttons but not knowing what they do.

( 10. ) Trying to make sense of trains and train schedules at stations along various routes, so as not to miss connecting excursions. Getting off at the wrong station or missing my train. Lacking a proper ticket. Finding myself in dodgey areas of a city, and either hurrying through them, or finding interesting markets and antique/art stores not far from there. Being pursued by thugs in slums.

( 11. ) Wandering around in buildings that are so enormous that one can easily get lost in them. Having people pursue me in such places. Sometimes these are hospitals that seem mostly empty, but may have scattered weird patients in them. Sometimes they are prisons. Sometimes ( if smaller ) they are schools that I went to as a child, that I am coming back to see with adult eyes, and with the benefit of knowing "secret passages" and "janitor shortcuts" etc. Sometimes these are department stores that are all connected, as in a mall. There are escalators and elevators in the more modern buildings, where I am entertaining working. There are only stairwells in the scarier buildings. Going down towards level 19 or whatever, below ground, and having that "Outer Limits" feeling creeping up on me...One can hear big machines throbbing in the background, perhaps involved in the power plant...

I could go on and on, but I know I am notorious for long posts.

I don't connect my dreams with my experiences of synchronicity. I have had many lucid dreams. Also many dreams that were only partially lucid. Not so many of these lucid dreams as I get older. The dreams that are pure lucidity are not that fun after the initial novelty wears off. Being "God" becomes boring. I prefer dreams that can surprise me, which is maybe why I don't have that many lucid dreams anymore.

I agree that the placebo effect is interesting, but I don't see a connection with my dreams. There is also the reverse placebo effect, where people think bad things are happening to them because they've been told that they might encounter such things. ( "Side effects" of medication are a good example of this. )

An interesting writer that comes to mind, considering the questions you have in this thread, is Rupert Sheldrake.

I've had only a little experience with NLP and Ericksonian hypnosis theories.

 

[plaguerat]

In recent days, I have been impressed by the consistency of my own subjective reality, as well as those of others.

I've recently had the opportunity to listen to a fairly large number of people who are going through psychological problems tell their stories. What is remarkable to me is how consistent people's subjective representations are.

Consider the following phenomenon:
1) Literature, Art, Moviews, and even video games almost seem to follow formulas, even when people are trying to be original.
2) If one takes the time to imagine ones own "spirit guide," he or she is remarkably consistent in representation.
3) Some people have very long term trends and desires that plague them in rather consistent forms.
4) Dreams that repeatedly crop-up during a period of time, have a remarkable consistancy in theme.
5) Synchronicity is a phenomenon many people experience, and taking note of it is often quite beneficial to people in that these moments reveal a lot about themselves.
6) "The" placebo effect has very real healing properties. Even Shaman remedies with no scientific basis often work because of some placebo effect.

Psychology may not be as "scientific" as many other subjects that purport to be science, but perhaps that is the wrong thing to try to be.

Anyone else believe the study of one's own subjective reality, as well as that of others can yeild great insights in themselves?

If so, let us explore parts of each others subjective worlds (whatever you're willing to share).

Have you tried lucid dreaming? What images come-up on a regular basis?

What characters in literature, TV, movies, etc. do you identify with?

Have you tried any NLP imaging? If so what have you tried? What were the results?

Imagine a "sheild" that you can put around yourself or others when you feel either you or them require protection. What does it look/feel/sound/smell like?

How about your "container" for feelings when the become overwhelming?

How about your "future self"? What does he or she look/feel/sound/smell like when you imagine him/her?

Have you ever given shape, color, smell, bodily location to your feelings? If so how did the feelings represent themselves to you?

How consistent were these things? What is the symbolism? What do they reveal to you?

first of all, this is very nice.

secondly, I think all life has some sort of underlying algorythm, which is obviously entirely too complex for anything to even begin to comprehend, and yet we sense some consistencies somewhere within ourselvs.

-I've tried lucid dreaming, work(ed) with dreams alot (the dream journal, interpretation, whole shebang). I've had like two actual dreams where I'm fully aware I'm dreaming anc can control it. None of them were remarkably symbolic of anything to me, however.

- I usially attatch myself to the character that ends up dying. Haha, I usually don't mind though, because their death is what made the plot work and the story have a lasting effect. I also like the cynical bastards that no one likes, simply because they're the most creative in their logic.

- I don't have too many "feelings" that can be called overhwelming. I guess this is attributed to being an INTJ and growing up how I did. I just get over things or work them out logically. I love to paint, I love art, and I'm not a straight-line person at all, so the only pictures, movies, stories, etc. that really capture my affection and respect are the ones that make me feel. WHich is why they call me depressing.

- also, I am a whole-hearted believer in the placebo effect. I have trained myself, in a way, to use such things as focus and actual pain enjoyment to get rid of discomfort at the least and even, I've been told, colds and such. Really it comes into play when I get migranes or just hurt places in general. I tell myself, when I begin to get desperate because of the intensity of the migrane, that it feels good, I like it; I try to describe the intricacies of the pain and eventually it dies down a bit.

and the same thing with nausia. I get car sick real bad.

anyways, this is a really interesting post.