[Traditional Enneagram] The big ol' bowl of Enneagram

[Magic Poriferan]

Hello, all! :hi:

This is an MBTI site, but quite a lot of questions about the Enneagram roll around this joint.
More interesting for me, is that I seem to have been selected as the de facto Enneagram guy.
That being said, I thought that it might be best for me just to make my own Enneagram topic. Eh?

This ain't no blog, because I don't want it to be about me at all. I just want to put Enneagram stuff here.
To start, here are a bunch of links. (I've posted them elsewhere, but I'm tired of doing it over and over again, so I'll put them all here.)

Changeworks.com .Some good descriptions that include wings, instincts, and type dynamics.
Enn9styls1.html

Added: 12/17/2007
This is a little place with information on types as well as quite a lot on instinctual preferences. (Unfortunately, it is badly written at times)
the enneagram ...info from the underground

Added: 12/19/2007
This place has information on the types including their wings. Its major downside is that it has a strange, mystical mindset to it.
Nine Personalities

Added: 01/09/2008
Largely Enneagram site with an eclectic jumble of approaches.
Has instinct info but nothing about wings from what I can see.
Breakthroughs with the Enneagram

Added: 01/31/2008
This site has a large amount of useful resources for the Enneagram, including tests and instinct information. I warn hard-nosed skeptics that this site also revolves around a lot of spiritualism.
Energy and the Enneagram

Added: 01/31/2008
This site is actually where my type correlation page is from, but I've put a link to the main page here in case anyone hadn't noticed. This place has an exceptional amount of information, with wings, instincts, and a compilation of articles and tests. The sight is actually for multiple systems, too.
Lifexplore - Personality, Myers-Briggs, Enneagram, Tests, Type Descriptions, More


9type.com .A very handy place for lots of quick little bits of information about Enneagram types.
www.9types.com
And this goes directly to their test. Enneagram Personality Type Indicator

Here are some other links to tests.
Free Enneagram Test
Advanced Enneagram Personality Test


My personal favorite. This is the MBTI-Enneagram type correlation theories page.
Type Correlations

This is also another, interesting device that poses another theory on correlation. (snazzy interface, but I personally don't like it as much)
JavaScript Tool for Exploring Typological Space

Now, from time to time, I will also be posting things that I find. This includes information others may not have access to.
(I'm an Enneagraminstitute member, and I'm going to be saving you some trouble. )
So, I'll probably post something shortly.

I hope this helps!
If it doesn't I'll go weep in a corner.

 

[redacted]

do you know where i can find population percentages for each of the 9 types?

maybe split into gender?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Well, dissonance, the problem with all such figures, even for the MBTI, is that it is skewed to those who would be interested in test taking and typology, as well as the fact that it is often skewed toward people who use the internet.
Much of the figures we see out there are conjecture.

This place Enneagram Test Stats, for instance, collected the avarages of the test takers. You can see by the results though, that this really appears to be more of an assessment of which types use the internet the most.

I can't think of a place that does the general population, off the top of my head.
Now, if you want, I can try to do online scounging for you, and save you the trouble.

EDIT:
I take back my previous edit. They didn't even out the genders.

 

[redacted]

thanks for the link.

but yeah, it's completely and utterly skewed by internet usage and interest in personality

 

[Magic Poriferan]

So far, I'm not getting very good results.

I can say, with some fair certainty, that Twos and Fours should have the most female population, and Fives and Eights should have the most male population.

 

[lbloom]

Something with pretty large uncertainty bars could be worked out from MBTI population stats, using rough correlations between the MBTI and the enneagram.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Something with pretty large uncertainty bars could be worked out from MBTI population stats, using rough correlations between the MBTI and the enneagram.

Tricky. An interesting idea, but it would be very uncertain indeed.

 

[Domino]

Thanks for this, Magic. *squishes the poriferan*

I can never seem to get enough of the approaches. They always turn up something of interest.

 

[MerkW]

Do you know of any other place that elaborates more on wings? I know that I am a 5 sp/sx, but I am having trouble in determining whether I am a w4 or w6, even after reading both descriptions.

What would you suggest to resolve this?

What are the most fundamental differences between a 5w4 and a 5w6? What is the most significant thing that distinguishes one from the other?

 

[Domino]

This makes sense to me... (ah, the wings begin to become more clear...) I relate to the 2w1 and not the 2w3.

Two With a 1 Wing:

This wing brings conscience and emotional containment to the basic Two style. When healthy, they act from general principles about the value of serving others. Ethics come before pride. May hold themselves to high standards. More discreet and respectful of other people's boundaries. When upset, tend to go quiet and experience strong emotions internally. More melancholy than Twos with a 3 wing.

When less healthy and entranced, tend to confuse their sense of mission with self-centered needs. Go blind to their own motives; invade and dominate others. Believe their actions are perfectly justified by their ethic of helping. May repress their personal desires and focus on others as a way to avoid guilty dilemma between the rules and their inner needs. If really blind they will warp their ethics crazily to justify personal selfishness and prideful hostility.

 

[lbloom]

Do you know of any other place that elaborates more on wings? I know that I am a 5 sp/sx, but I am having trouble in determining whether I am a w4 or w6, even after reading both descriptions.

What would you suggest to resolve this?

What are the most fundamental differences between a 5w4 and a 5w6? What is the most significant thing that distinguishes one from the other?

Maybe this will help?

Fives with a Four wing tend to be somewhat more emotionally centered than those with a Six wing and also tend to be more drawn to the arts and humanities. This is hardly a rigid rule however. Fives with a Four wing tend to be attuned to meaning and metaphor as much as to fact and function. Fives with a Six wing are often systematic thinkers who are drawn to more analytic disciplines than those with a Four wing. And they generally have an extra layer of detachment to their personality as compared to those with a Four wing. They are also more likely to be able to work within a system or to find a place for themselves in the world of business, academia and law than are the more impractical Four wingers.

Fives - the enneagram ...info from the underground

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Do you know of any other place that elaborates more on wings? I know that I am a 5 sp/sx, but I am having trouble in determining whether I am a w4 or w6, even after reading both descriptions.

What would you suggest to resolve this?

What are the most fundamental differences between a 5w4 and a 5w6? What is the most significant thing that distinguishes one from the other?

The best I can say is that 5/4 is really a lot more Ni as oppose to the 5/6 being a lot more Ti.

What always stands-out to me is how much more pragmatic 5/6s are than 5/4s. I'm partly going on experience here, but I have two family members, whom are 5/4 and 5/6. So I've had plenty of time to compare.
5/6s are skeptical, cost-analysis kind of people. 5/4s are much more free flowing.

Errmmm... Sorry for my lack of professional jargon.

I can only suggest more self-examination.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Hah!
I completely forgot about that page, and I even have it bookmarked.

The only thing I don't like about it is the rather third-party nature of it.
I have doubts about them.

Still, I'll add them.

 

[Mempy]

I've always been skeptical of correlations between the MBTI and the Enneagram because most don't even mention the relation between INFPs and type two. I know several INFPs who are twos on INFPg, and I'm a dead match for it.

I relate a lot more with the 2w3 description than the 2w1.

Merkw, if you're really interested in in-depth descriptions of all the types and their wings, I'd recommend Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Riso and Russ Hudson. It was about sixteen dollars at Barnes and Noble, if I remember correctly. It's a tomb of a book with lots of valuable information. More importantly, they describe both wings for each type in a fair amount of depth. If you weedle me a bit, I might be flattered into typing out a few of the core differences between your type's two wings. Off the top of my head, I remember reading that fives with a four wing were more emotional and more drawn to art, whereas fives with a six wing were more scientific and more endearing socially? I can't quite remember, but that's vaguely what I recall. Magic said that 5w4s are more Ni and 5w6s are more Ti, and I'd agree with that, inasmuch as Ni is creative and Ti is scientific.

Well, so far we have two things in common, Magic. Absolute purity, and a love and admiration for the enneagram.

 

[MerkW]

The best I can say is that 5/4 is really a lot more Ni as oppose to the 5/6 being a lot more Ti.

What always stands-out to me is how much more pragmatic 5/6s are than 5/4s. I'm partly going on experience here, but I have two family members, whom are 5/4 and 5/6. So I've had plenty of time to compare.
5/6s are skeptical, cost-analysis kind of people. 5/4s are much more free flowing.

Errmmm... Sorry for my lack of professional jargon.

I can only suggest more self-examination.

So an INTP would more likely be a 5w6 than a 5w4? Regardless, according to analysis of my cognitive functions, I use Ni as proficiently as I use Ti and Ne. I suppose that would make 5w4 as likely.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I've always been skeptical of correlations between the MBTI and the Enneagram because most don't even mention the relation between INFPs and type two. I know several INFPs who are twos on INFPg, and I'm a dead match for it.

I relate a lot more with the 2w3 description than the 2w1.

Well, at least one spot suggests a link between Two and INFP. But yeah, one isn't a lot.

Merkw, if you're really interested in in-depth descriptions of all the types and their wings, I'd recommend Personality Types: Using the Enneagram for Self-Discovery by Don Riso and Russ Hudson. It was about sixteen dollars at Barnes and Noble, if I remember correctly. It's a tomb of a book with lots of valuable information. More importantly, they describe both wings for each type in a fair amount of depth. If you weedle me a bit, I might be flattered into typing out a few of the core differences between your type's two wings. Off the top of my head, I remember reading that fives with a four wing were more emotional and more drawn to art, whereas fives with a six wing were more endearingly socially awkward? I can't quite remember, but that's vaguely what I recall.

Of course books are always better than this stuff, but they cost money and take up space.

 

[redacted]

yeah i'm having problems with the wing system as well. i'm definitely a 2, but i relate a lot to the 1 wing and the 3 wing. is it possible to have both?

oh and i'm def. sx/sp

 

[Magic Poriferan]

yeah i'm having problems with the wing system as well. i'm definitely a 2, but i relate a lot to the 1 wing and the 3 wing. is it possible to have both?

Actually, yes.
However, it's considered an uncommon occurance, and as such, receives virtually no commentary.

 

[redacted]

Actually, yes.
However, it's considered an uncommon occurance, and as such, receives virtually no commentary.

seems like the 3 wing coincides with Fe and the 1 wing coincides with Ni (or maybe Te)...does that make sense?

basically i'm obsessed with the way people perceive me (3) and i'm also obsessed with being perfect at everything i choose to do (which is why it's hard to choose to do things, heh).

i've gone back and forth between calling myself a 2w1 and a 2w3 for months and months....so yeah, i guess i'll just call myself a 2w(1,3) now

 

[Mempy]

If you like to seem very put-together and desirable, you're probably a two with a three wing. If you invest a lot in your self-image rather than in your principles, I'd go with a three wing. Twos with a one wing seem overall more concerned with their principles and their virtues than twos with a three wing. Twos with a three wing probably want to seem like the total "package" to others more than twos with a one wing. They're more prideful and more vain.

I have a couple questions. Did you ever find yourself feeling fiercely competitive with other people in certain regards, such as art, writing, intellect, grades, etc? Is your greatest fear being humiliated?