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The Anti-Vaping Bias

Doctor Cringelord

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Trump is going to likely exacerbate the current health crisis by banning vaping. It’s been coming to light that black market products are likely the cause. Banning rather than implementing more common sense regulations will just drive the whole industry underground where they will no longer need to adhere to any FDA guidelines. The current health crisis resulting from people vaping fluids containing vitamin E oils could get worse. Hate to make a slippery slope argument but historically, prohibition rarely gets the intended public health results. Plus it’s going to lead to a tax free industry rather than a well regulated and well taxed one.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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450 illnesses (6 of them actual deaths). 35,000,000 people vaping. That’s about .0013 %

Compare to alcohol related deaths. Or automobile related deaths.
 

Peter Deadpan

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I've only seen criticism of unregulated products.

Also, I read exactly zero percent of this thread.
My work is done here.
 

Tellenbach

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People know the risks; it's not the role of government to play babysitter or parent. More people die in swimming pool accidents; maybe we should ban water and big holes in the ground. :D
 

ceecee

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Not the end of the world with this ban. I'll live, but I am concerned about some older lifelong smokers I know who were in fact able to give up smoking by replacing it with vaping. Some of these people had tried everything from quitting cold turkey, to chewing Nicorette gum, to wearing nicotine patches. I fear they will return to smoking combustible cigarettes if they're unable to go cold turkey after Trump's imminent ban. Vaping may not be a healthy pastime, but it's still less deadly than cigarettes.

Well, you can thank the tobacco lobby for this - they've gone at it hard since Trump was inaugurated.
 

EcK

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Vaping has helped me quit smoking. Now of course if you buy some shitty liquid from some shady dude off the street yes it might be dangerous - instead buy from people who might actually have something to lose from selling tainted juice. Vaping is just a vaporizer + a liquid - the liquid COULD contain poison, like... any liquid..ever. One could put poison in a cigarette and oh surprise, it would kill people (faster). yet for some reason cigarettes are still legal. For that matter you can add poison to water, are we going to outlaw water too?

Banning vaping, overall, would get much more people killed. On the 'bright' side the g0vs would rack up more tax money - so ya know, more money for 'public servant'. Also, let people do what they will to their own bodies. Can g0vs please quit acting like we are children - it's aggravating.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Well, you can thank the tobacco lobby for this - they've gone at it hard since Trump was inaugurated.

Yep. And companies like RJ Reynolds and Phillip Morris will now be able to corner the market with their own lines of shitty pens and pods that carry a high percentage of nicotine. Funny how the ban doesn’t apply to tobacco flavored juice. Using the excuse that other flavors lure kids. Horseshit. You want to keep kids from doing it, you implement stronger regulations. They began more heavily regulating cigarettes about 20-30 years ago and there was a decline in use among younger people.

Trump is going to piss off a lot of older Republicans who have switched from cigarettes to vaping too.
 

ceecee

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Yep. And companies like RJ Reynolds and Phillip Morris will now be able to corner the market with their own lines of shitty pens and pods that carry a high percentage of nicotine. Funny how the ban doesn’t apply to tobacco flavored juice. Using the excuse that other flavors lure kids. Horseshit. You want to keep kids from doing it, you implement stronger regulations. They began more heavily regulating cigarettes about 20-30 years ago and there was a decline in use among younger people.

Trump is going to piss off a lot of older Republicans who have switched from cigarettes to vaping too.

Every person I know that vapes is over 40.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Haha, I wonder if candy flavored guns would lead to Trump doing something about gun deaths, considering the percentage of people reported sick from vaping pales in comparison to gun related deaths, not to mention alcohol poisoning, automobile related deaths and of course cigarette related deaths. It should also be noted that cigarettes contain far higher levels of the chemical associated with popcorn lung, while most reputable vape outlets removed the same chemical from vape juice years ago.
 

EcK

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Yep. And companies like RJ Reynolds and Phillip Morris will now be able to corner the market with their own lines of shitty pens and pods that carry a high percentage of nicotine. Funny how the ban doesn’t apply to tobacco flavored juice. Using the excuse that other flavors lure kids. Horseshit. You want to keep kids from doing it, you implement stronger regulations. They began more heavily regulating cigarettes about 20-30 years ago and there was a decline in use among younger people.

Trump is going to piss off a lot of older Republicans who have switched from cigarettes to vaping too.

The 'dirty little secret' the tobacco industry doesn't want people to know, is that vaping is much less addiction causing than cigarettes. As cigarette manufacturers have tailored their product to produce maximum dependency in various ways. Quitting cigarettes was very hard - my hand would shake, I had strong physical cravings etc., quitting vaping comparatively was at most 'uncomfortable'. I only had one/two instance of unpleasant craving, nothing else - haven't had any nicotine in two weeks and I'm just fine. I would walk across fucking town on a Sunday morning to find cigarettes and happily pay triple the already high going price of a brand i hated just to get my 'fix'. The two are really not comparable.

Nicotine in itself is not much more addictive than coffee. And withdrawal symptoms are actually milder than for caffeine.

And yes if we let the tobacco industry 'get rid' of the small guys we'll just end up with the vaping equivalent of cigarettes - products designed to addict.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Every person I know that vapes is over 40.

I don’t know the numbers but usually it’s older people I see doing it. By older, I mean past mid 30s. It helped me quit. I have been slowly weaning myself to juices with lower nicotine content in the hopes of eventually dropping to zero percent nicotine, then eventually quitting altogether. I was looking forward to quitting on my own terms but now thanks to the ban I will have to go cold turkey at some point in the near future. I’m going to stock up on as much juice as I can but a lot of stores and online outlets are going to sell out real fast. Probably putting in a big order tomorrow
 

Doctor Cringelord

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The 'dirty little secret' the tobacco industry doesn't want people to know, is that vaping is much less addiction causing than cigarettes. As cigarette manufacturers have tailored their product to produce maximum dependency in various ways. Quitting cigarettes was very hard - my hand would shake, I had strong physical cravings etc., quitting vaping comparatively was at most 'uncomfortable'. I only had one/two instance of unpleasant craving, nothing else - haven't had any nicotine in two weeks and I'm just fine. I would walk across fucking town on a Sunday morning to find cigarettes and happily pay triple the already high going price of a brand i hated just to get my 'fix'. The two are really not comparable.

Nicotine in itself is not much more addictive than coffee. And withdrawal symptoms are actually milder than for caffeine.

And yes if we let the tobacco industry 'get rid' of the small guys we'll just end up with the vaping equivalent of cigarettes - products designed to addict.

I know the struggle of trying to quit cigarettes. Non smokers will never really understand how hard it is to quit. Worse is when current smokers tease me or talk shit about my vaping.

I do vape less than I used to smoke. It was initially hard transitioning from cigs to vape but after a point I couldn’t smoke cigarettes without getting physically ill. I can go several hours, sometimes all day without really even thinking about vaping, but when I smoked, I couldn’t go more than a couple of hours without feeling antsy and shakey
 

EcK

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I knew the struggle of trying to quit cigarettes. Non smokers will never really understand how hard it is to quit.

I do vape less than I used to smoke. It was initially hard transitioning from cigs to vape but after a point I couldn’t smoke cigarettes without getting physically ill. I can go several hours, sometimes all day without really even thinking about vaping, but when I smoked, I couldn’t go more than a couple of hours without feeling antsy and shakey

Well yes, if cigarettes and vaping was just about the nicotine.. then obviously much more people would easily switch between the two. The fact they often fail to is because cigarettes contain many more addictive chemicals, are designed to create very high nicotine spikes etc. basically it's the results of decades of designing the most addictive product possible.

When I started vaping I was non-stop vaping for weeks as my body was missing more than just the nicotine and trying to get it 'with the next puff'. If I had only been craving the nicotine high-nicotine e-liquid should have been more than enough. I was actually vaping so much nicotine it would regularly make me sick from nicotine poisoning (despite very high tolerance from smoking 2 packs a day for years) and yet ... I still craved cigarettes.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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Well yes, if cigarettes and vaping was just about the nicotine.. then obviously much more people would easily switch between the two. The fact they often fail to is because cigarettes contain many more addictive chemicals, are designed to create very high nicotine spikes etc. basically it's the results of decades of designing the most addictive product possible.

When I started vaping I was basically non-stop vaping for weeks as my body was missing more than just the nicotine and trying to get it 'with the next puff'. If I had only been craving the nicotine non-stop vaping of high-nicotine e-liquid should have been more than enough. I was actually vaping so much nicotine it would regularly make me sick from nicotine poisoning (despite very high tolerance from smoking 2 packs a day for years) and yet I still craved cigarettes.

So once you finally kicked cigarettes for good, did you ever have one after having quit? I tried one several months ago and felt like throwing up. I think not being used to all of the other chemicals, my body literally couldn’t stand the sudden influx of it all, in addition to the higher nicotine levels.

I was non stop vaping for a while too. Spent more money on it initially, but now my nicotine spending has dropped considerably
 

EcK

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So once you finally kicked cigarettes for good, did you ever have one after having quit? I tried one several months ago and felt like throwing up. I think not being used to all of the other chemicals, my body literally couldn’t stand the sudden influx of it all, in addition to the higher nicotine levels.

As time went by I became physically repulsed by cigarettes. I bought a pack at a bar a few months into vaping and was just disgusted by it - threw it away. I had another pack in my drawer for months and never touched it. It would have been unthinkable to have an unsmoked pack of cigarettes a few cms from my hands most days every day and just completely ignore it.

As to Nicotine i was vaping high nicotine for a long time (16-18mg on low-ohm all-day-vaping - which according to other people was crazy high) I tend to have a very high natural tolerance for most everything that's psycho active. From painkillers to well. nicotine..
In the past 12 months I've reduced to 6 then 3, then well. 0 nicotine.

I still vape as I want to slowly wain myself off it in a 'natural way' (ie: actually not want to vape anymore by taking away lots of the things that make it enjoyable, no nicotine, flavours I don't like much etc.) - I'm basically taking a behavioristic approach to it - taking away the incentives little by little.
 

EcK

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So once you finally kicked cigarettes for good, did you ever have one after having quit? I tried one several months ago and felt like throwing up. I think not being used to all of the other chemicals, my body literally couldn’t stand the sudden influx of it all, in addition to the higher nicotine levels.

I was non stop vaping for a while too. Spent more money on it initially, but now my nicotine spending has dropped considerably

I actually think the 'secret' to a successful switch between the two is probably to be able to take some holidays - you can't really do all day vaping at an office. I did the switch while at home vaping all day without any smoker around me.
 

Doctor Cringelord

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As time went by I became physically repulsed by cigarettes. I bought a pack at a bar a few months into vaping and was just disgusted by it - threw it away. I had another pack in my drawer for months and never touched it. It would have been unthinkable to have an unsmoked pack of cigarettes a few cms from my hands most days every day and just completely ignore it.

As to Nicotine i was smoking high nicotine for a long time (16-18mg on low-ohm all-day-vaping - which according to other people was crazy high) I tend to have a very high natural tolerance for most everything that's psycho active. From painkillers to well. nicotine..
In the past 12 months I've reduced to 6 then 3, then well. 0 nicotine.

I still vape as I want to slowly wain myself off it in a 'natural way' (ie: actually not want to vape anymore by taking away lots of the things that make it enjoyable, no nicotine, flavours I don't like much etc.) - I'm basically taking a behavioristic approach to it - taking away the incentives little by little.

I’m currently at a 3. I had to buy a 6 a few weeks ago because they were out of my favorite flavor in 3, and it made me feel a little queasy.

This ban may actually help if I took your approach, as I don’t particularly enjoy tobacco flavored vape, and that’s the one type the ban won’t affect. I have a few unopened bottles of various tobacco flavors I’ve been saving. It’s funny because when I first started all I wanted were tobacco flavored juices
 

EcK

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I’m currently at a 3. I had to buy a 6 a few weeks ago because they were out of my favorite flavor in 3, and it made me feel a little queasy.

But yeah if you intend on quitting, one big concern as an ex smoker is the memories of the quite horrible attempts at quitting (esp. if you were a heavy-duty smoker) that make a heroin habit look easy to kick. Funny thing, cigarettes are ACTUALLY as hard or harder to quit than most hard drugs (except meth maybe) - and are available everywhere.

It was surprisingly easy. I did have about hum 2 or 3 'unpleasant' times but nothing compared to quitting cigarettes.
 
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