[SP] Taking things at face value

[Jeffster]

Hey, in this thread, Viv said:

SPs I know tend to take things at face-value too much, which is one of my pet-peeves.

Since I can't reply in the NF Private forum, I figured I'd start a topic here about this. For Viv or any other non-SP to explain what is taking things at face value "too much"? Is this something that bothers you? If so, can you explain what it means to you and why it bothers you?

To me, taking things at face value is actually respecting people. Instead of reading hidden meanings into what people say, I let them speak for themselves, rather than jumping to conclusions or making assumptions. I try to make it clear to people if they want me to know something, they can tell me and I'll take what they say for what it is, and they don't have to think of some clever, mysterious way to say stuff because I don't require that.

 

[Simplexity]

I think there needs to be a certain amount of clarity in regards to personal and emotional situations because then face value takes on a whole different meaning. In terms of theories and concepts the difference is much more noticeable and for me easier to discern.

I think its just not actively questioning and cross referencing what you hear/learn and not constantly comparing it to what you've understood in the past, the current context, future implications and not being willing to adapt that knowledge in new situations. In a school situation it is sort of keying in on buzzwords and definition and not looking at the overarching theme or concept being discussed and sort of filling in the blanks with your own terms and definitions(or using your own reasoning to understand said terms/definitions).

Basically taking everything as crystallized and not willing to mold and sculpture it.

 

[sarah]

Hey, in this thread, Viv said:



Since I can't reply in the NF Private forum, I figured I'd start a topic here about this. For Viv or any other non-SP to explain what is taking things at face value "too much"? Is this something that bothers you? If so, can you explain what it means to you and why it bothers you?

To me, taking things at face value is actually respecting people. Instead of reading hidden meanings into what people say, I let them speak for themselves, rather than jumping to conclusions or making assumptions. I try to make it clear to people if they want me to know something, they can tell me and I'll take what they say for what it is, and they don't have to think of some clever, mysterious way to say stuff because I don't require that.

Looking over that thread, it seems that pretty much all of the responders think "party animal" = the SP temperament, and that every person they've identified as an "SP" in their lives never reads anything interesting, never thinks for his or herself, and can't get enough of the party scene. No wonder they can't enjoy the company of those "SPs" unless they're drunk.

But it's probably true that sensing means you'd rather take people for their word than have to listen to a bunch of vaguely worded hints and spend time trying to decipher the real message behind them. Having a conversation with someone who never directly says what they're thinking or feeling can be exhausting, especially if I make a wrong guess and I get blamed for misreading their minds. I jsut sometimes want to ask people like this if it would kill them to just say what they mean right out front, especially if I'm not in the mood for guessing games. (And unlike the responders on the NF thread, I'm not going around claiming that everyone in my life whom I've identified as an NF or an NT is annoying like that.)

Sarah
ISFP

 

[Jeffster]

Looking over that thread, it seems that pretty much all of the responders think "party animal" = the SP temperament, and that every person they've identified as an "SP" in their lives never reads anything interesting, never thinks for his or herself, and can't get enough of the party scene. No wonder they can't enjoy the company of those "SPs" unless they're drunk.

Eh..a lot of them just say that we're fun..which is true! It probably takes some effort to really get to know some SPs because we don't necessarily initiate conversations about "reading anything interesting" or whatever. Probably many of us ARE content to just be seen as the party dude. But anyone who really wants to know beyond that, we also tend to be some of the most open people I think, not about hidden agendas or manipulation. Well, unless we're messing with somebody.

Having a conversation with someone who never directly says what they're thinking or feeling can be exhausting, especially if I make a wrong guess and I get blamed for misreading their minds. I jsut sometimes want to ask people like this if it would kill them to just say what they mean right out front, especially if I'm not in the mood for guessing games.

Totally. I'm not a mind reader. Tell me what you want me to know and let's go from there, trying to beat around the bush or give me a verbal treasure map to try to locate the gold, and I'm liable to tune you out.

 

[SolitaryPenguin]

Totally. I'm not a mind reader. Tell me what you want me to know and let's go from there, trying to beat around the bush or give me a verbal treasure map to try to locate the gold, and I'm liable to tune you out.

Took the words out of my mouth.

I get this same damn thing in every relationship in my life. Whether it be romantic, platonic, business, friendship, whatever.

Just tell me what you want to say, what you want me to do, if I am pissing you off, if you're happy with me, something. I have better things to do with my time than to sit here and try to contemplate what may or may not be going on inside your head and how it possibly affects me.

I am pretty sure this is the main reason I got divorced. She got sick of me not being able to read her mind, and I got sick of her trying to get me to.

I'd much rather hear "Hey, could you take the garbage out?" or "I'd really like a back rub" or "Are you going to respond to my email?" than a prolonged series of sighs and eyebrow furrows pointed in my direction.

I didn't read the other thread, but this post just got me into rant mode. I will go read it now, lol.

 

[nottaprettygal]

I think you can wish and hope that people will tell you exactly what they want and when they want it, but I'm sure as every SP has figured out, it doesn't work that way. For me personally, it's important for people to understand how things are working inside of me without clearly spelling it out for them. If I say everything that is on my mind and communicate my every demand, it seems like the person isn't understanding my needs on a deeper non-verbal level.

Do SPs always express themselves clearly with no room for interpretation?

 

[BerberElla]

Just tell me what you want to say, what you want me to do, if I am pissing you off, if you're happy with me, something. I have better things to do with my time than to sit here and try to contemplate what may or may not be going on inside your head and how it possibly affects me.

I feel like this when it comes to other people all the time. I hate having to dig deeper than what I'm being told, there are bigger things I would like to be thinking about than what a person isn't telling me.

I actually prefer to take people at face value, and do so in the beginning, I only start digging at the motives when I become aware that "hang on a moment, these actions don't match up to the words, there is something more here" and then I get pissed off because I'm not being told the truth.

The thing is I have honestly found more SP's/SJ's wearing a mask I have to dig past than the other types. You are not always the bubbly open and upfront people you think you are, sometimes you are unable to express what's going on deeper inside and at those times the actions I see do not mirror the mask, then face value becomes pointless.

 

[SolitaryPenguin]

Do SPs always express themselves clearly with no room for interpretation?

Of course not, at least this one doesn't, lol.

 

[wolfy]

SPs I know tend to take things at face-value too much, which is one of my pet-peeves.

It's no more or less than what is stated. Viv has many SP friends who tend to take things at face value which is her personal dislike.

I take everything at face value. I tried insinuating a few times, too much trouble. Here's how I think. Peoples wants are useful info. Tell me so I can factor it in, if I can't give you what you want I'll let you know.

I hate not being taken at face value.
"Pass me the tissues." "Are you sad?"
"That's a nice dress." "Are you coming on to me?"


George Carlin
I don’t have pet peeves, I have major, psychotic hatreds.

　　

 

[nottaprettygal]

Of course not, at least this one doesn't, lol.

I was hoping you'd say that.

How can you expect others to constantly express themselves clearly as well?

 

[millerm277]

For Viv or any other non-SP to explain what is taking things at face value "too much"?

I'm pretty bad at picking up at hints or anything that people are trying to express without actually saying it directly, so from that aspect, it isn't necessarily good. You have to be direct/obvious as to what you're talking about with me....

 

[SolitaryPenguin]

I was hoping you'd say that.

How can you expect others to constantly express themselves clearly as well?

I can't argue with that at all, but, I do make it a point to try and express myself as clearly as I am able. I suppose any expectation that I have of anyone else is ultimately my own fault and I should take what I get and like it.

 

[nottaprettygal]

I can't argue with that at all, but, I do make it a point to try and express myself as clearly as I am able. I suppose any expectation that I have of anyone else is ultimately my own fault and I should take what I get and like it.

Oh, here's another question for SPs that I'm interested in learning more about. Are you incapable of reading into what people say or are you just unwilling to do so?

For example, you talked about your ex's sighs and raised eyebrows. Did you know what they meant but neglected to respond to them for whatever reason, or did you just not understand what she was trying to communicate to you?

(Obviously, no one is going to know that the long sigh means take out the trash and that the short one means that she wants a back massage, but you get what I'm saying.)

 

[SolitaryPenguin]

Oh, here's another question for SPs that I'm interested in learning more about. Are you incapable of reading into what people say or are you just unwilling to do so?

For example, you talked about your ex's sighs and raised eyebrows. Did you know what they meant but neglected to respond to them for whatever reason, or did you just not understand what she was trying to communicate to you?

(Obviously, no one is going to know that the long sigh means take out the trash and that the short one means that she wants a back massage, but you get what I'm saying.)

I only began to understand what she was trying to communicate after it happened so many times. At first, I was oblivious to it, and any relationship I've been in that something similar has happened I've been just as oblivious at first. I guess I just got used to thinking "long sigh = upset about something"

The problem was, I didn't have the patience to pry it out of her. If it was that bothersome, just say it. Why leave it to subtle (or not so subtle) hints.

 

[nottaprettygal]

I only began to understand what she was trying to communicate after it happened so many times. At first, I was oblivious to it, and any relationship I've been in that something similar has happened I've been just as oblivious at first. I guess I just got used to thinking "long sigh = upset about something"

The problem was, I didn't have the patience to pry it out of her. If it was that bothersome, just say it. Why leave it to subtle (or not so subtle) hints.

Right. When my patience is low with another person, I purposely ignore signals too. . . just to make them mad.

So it seems like you're capable, but it takes a little bit longer to pick up on some things. It seems like it's harder to be an SP male in this case because women seem more apt to communicate using signals and body language rather than directly through words.

But the long sigh is pretty much a universal female signal for "you're doing something wrong," so once you learn it in one relationship, it's a lot easier to recognize in others, I would think.

 

[SolitaryPenguin]

Well, I dated a narcoleptic at one point, and the long sigh was usually the precursor to passing out at the dinner table.

I am fortunate now to have a woman that will tell me, point blank "You're being an idiot" or "you're doing it wrong". I much prefer that because it cuts to the chase, and I can fix the problem more quickly.

 

[nottaprettygal]

Well, I dated a narcoleptic at one point, and the long sigh was usually the precursor to passing out at the dinner table.

Ha. Awesome.

I am fortunate now to have a woman that will tell me, point blank "You're being an idiot" or "you're doing it wrong". I much prefer that because it cuts to the chase, and I can fix the problem more quickly.

What about hurt feelings? Is that an issue? Sometimes when I'm dealing with SFPs and SFJs who, like you, don't like to search through lots of unspoken communication, I worry about hurting their feelings. Sometimes when people want me to be more direct, it almost seems like that is not what they want at all if the direct statement is unkind.

 

[SolitaryPenguin]

I can't speak for others, but I don't get insulted much at all. I figure if someone says something deliberately to piss me off, I can see through it pretty well, and if they say something hurtful that they don't really mean, I can give them the benefit of the doubt. I find that if I am getting upset about something, it's all me, and really has nothing to do with anyone else.

If it is someone that I am close with, like family, GF or good friends, I know their intentions are good. If it is some random person I don't put too much stock into it. I've developed a decent ability to let most things slide, so I tend to be pretty laid back.

 

[millerm277]

Oh, here's another question for SPs that I'm interested in learning more about. Are you incapable of reading into what people say or are you just unwilling to do so?

I can, but I usually don't, because my right/wrong ratio is about 3:2. Also, the people I'm around know that I suck at noticing those signs, so they generally will be more obvious with me if they want me to try to.

What about hurt feelings? Is that an issue? Sometimes when I'm dealing with SFPs and SFJs who, like you, don't like to search through lots of unspoken communication, I worry about hurting their feelings. Sometimes when people want me to be more direct, it almost seems like that is not what they want at all if the direct statement is unkind.

No. It's almost impossible to offend/insult me, and if you do, it takes me all of 30 seconds before I'm no longer "hurt". I tend to be very to the point and don't "mince my words", so I expect the same in return.

 

[Jeffster]

What about hurt feelings? Is that an issue? Sometimes when I'm dealing with SFPs and SFJs who, like you, don't like to search through lots of unspoken communication, I worry about hurting their feelings. Sometimes when people want me to be more direct, it almost seems like that is not what they want at all if the direct statement is unkind.

I'd always prefer you to be direct. Even if my feelings are hurt initially, I usually get over it pretty fast and can move on, feeling much better for knowing what the problem is and just taking action to fix it.