[MBTI General] stimulated world

[PeaceBaby]

It's all about balance.

 

[simulatedworld]

Slowness of movment of the planet means it's more intense yes, wheather it's good or bad depending son the persons ability to make the most out of it.

If you have difficult aspects between two planets, it can translate into someone who is a total mess in those areas (which is phrased as learning to use it appropriately) or someone who puts a lot of drive into these activites.

If you suffer from being abused as a kid there is a fair chance you will abuse kids as a adult, there are other manefestations - like you deal with your shit and don't abuse your kids, or you work to help care for abused kids, or stuff like that.

good stuff can work like that too, if your chart is too easy then often the person never gets anywhere near their potential because they are lazy or don't apply themsleves. I have a friend who partied for the late 80/90's hes a mess, but he has great astrology so get stuff by not doing very much. He hasn't ever been properly employed in a normal way....

The slower the planet transits (not the slower it moves towards the earth). Pluto moved about 2 - 3 degrees a year, Moon travels 360 in about 28 days, Venus takes a wee bit more than a year to do 360 as does Mercury.

Saturn takes 28.5 years-ish

No idea what your last sence is so I will skip that part.

All of the things you've just described are perfectly reasonable parts of human psychology, and none of them have any even remotely proven link to astrology or movement of the planets. Your friend doesn't have "great astrology"; he's just a smart person that knows how to make money and support himself creatively.

And my last sentence was VERY clear; I don't know how you could be from the country that invented this language and not understand that.

I was asking you to explain how astrology can have any specific information on people when the only data it takes into account is date of birth (DOB.) MBTI has some validity (though obviously not perfect) because it uses specific data provided by people themselves about themselves.

Astrology doesn't do this. It takes no substantial behavioral data into account besides date of birth. You still haven't addressed this point *at all*, and you're still whining about my so-called "shite arguments." Please either learn to read or go away.

 

[tinkerbell]

Noun. 1. A thing that is excellent. E.g."That West End show was a cracker." {Informal}
2. An attractive person, particularly a woman. {Informal}

This is from a UK slang dictionary.

Tinkerbell, cracker is slang in America for a stupid white person. Equivalent of calling some one a nigger or other equally offensive statement. There seems to have been a disconnect in the last few posts.

Also I find this whole thread amazingly humorous, I still think she is trolling all of you.

Shame on you Nickles - I pulled your chart... Hardly trolling...

 

[tinkerbell]

No poe can escape my notice!

I think she's serious. Biggest hint for me is that she is part of the astrology group. I'll put it at 75% serious, 25% troll.

And yes, quite humorous.

Why of course I am serious, until recently I was a committee member of the Astrological Lodge of London, the so called olded astrological society in the northen hemespher..... (although that could be challenged).

Lis

 

[tinkerbell]

You're welcome PeaceBaby. You did try, but being a thread about astrology in the NT section of the forum I think it was doomed to such a lambasting regardless. Stay critical and objective!

LOL you're SO disparaging about NT's abilities to think beyond the box, still I guess in the main that this thread is a testimoney that NT's will argue the toss over something they know jack shit about and still try and make themselves sound informed... Increadibly funny from my perspective.

I'm also, I guess a wee bit older than you guys so not exactly going to bend to 20-something male domination.... Simply not in my composition.

Lis

 

[tinkerbell]

All of the things you've just described are perfectly reasonable parts of human psychology, and none of them have any even remotely proven link to astrology or movement of the planets. Your friend doesn't have "great astrology"; he's just a smart person that knows how to make money and support himself creatively.

And my last sentence was VERY clear; I don't know how you could be from the country that invented this language and not understand that.

I was asking you to explain how astrology can have any specific information on people when the only data it takes into account is date of birth (DOB.) MBTI has some validity (though obviously not perfect) because it uses specific data provided by people themselves about themselves.

Astrology doesn't do this. It takes no substantial behavioral data into account besides date of birth. You still haven't addressed this point *at all*, and you're still whining about my so-called "shite arguments." Please either learn to read or go away.

Your last sentence might be totally clear to you but not to other people. I do come from a country that speaks th language, but if it's abused then no one will understand you.

The things I described were analogies of how a person may respond. The astrology can pick up there would be an issue, it will not pick up on if a person will deal with that issue in a productive or destructive way.

There is no such thing as good or bad astrology, there are difficult aspects that can be used well or badly, and good aspects that can be used well or badly. It's like a snap shot photo - you may say the person is unattractive but someone else thinks they are not.

You keep asking the same question over and over again. The answer will always be the same. The premis of astrology is around 4 different components each with vaiations:
Planets (their location and condition)
Houses (what part of the natives live they impact)
Aspects (internal dialogue)
Signs (quality of reaction)

These are all taken from the time palce and date of birth... and many personality traits can be identified relatively easily from those things above.

Lis

 

[simulatedworld]

Wow, another smashing argument--

"You're all so young and male that your arguments clearly require no rational response!"

lolololz

 

[simulatedworld]

OK, good, now show me evidence of any kind that these planetary positions at time/place of birth actually show reliable correlations with human behavioral patterns over many trials.

 

[tinkerbell]

Wow, another smashing argument--

"You're all so young and male that your arguments clearly require no rational response!"

lolololz

So far thais how it is coming across, that and the total lack of any knowledge about the subject you are arguing against - yes it REALLY does show.

 

[tinkerbell]

OK, good, now show me evidence of any kind that these planetary positions at time/place of birth actually show reliable correlations with human behavioral patterns over many trials.

And you've not given any evidence against except - BECAUSE I SAY SO, nor have you shown any knowledge about the subject you are dismissing.

It's a totally hilariously bad argument when based on no knowlege at all - so ultimately will always come down to - because I say so. Which is pathetic to be honest. NT's are funny that way, just because they can't prove everything they think that something isn't valid even when they know nothing about it.

 

[Fuent]

Guys

MBTI is unproven, not validated scientifically, so you are on pretty thin Ice. I ran a nationally representive sample and had the largest number of unclassifiable people I've come across.

Astrology is not about date of birth, it factors in Date, time and place. Which make even identical twins uneque from each other (they can't be born at exactly the same moment). Those data are fed through astronmic data to give exact locations of 10 planets (Sun, Moon, Merucury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, Node and Asc, MC/IC), thats a lot of data from just time place and date. So two people born on the 1st of January, 1980 20 minutes apart can have different life events. They will be very similar, have similar life events but can be experienced very differently.

I know someone who was born within 5 minutes of me in Guatamala, the similarities of major life events were uncanny. His mum died within weeks of my dad, and vice versa for my Mum to his dad. In 2003 I got broken into 3 times in London, he got broken into within that same time period too. His chart isn't exactly the same because of the locational differences, and the impact they have on his chart, but the events are same. We both also spent time unemployed that summer - more or less at the same time.


Lis

Omg. No. Stop.

 

[Fuent]

And you've not given any evidence against except - BECAUSE I SAY SO, nor have you shown any knowledge about the subject you are dismissing.

It's a totally hilariously bad argument when based on no knowlege at all - so ultimately will always come down to - because I say so. Which is pathetic to be honest. NT's are funny that way, just because they can't prove everything they think that something isn't valid even when they know nothing about it.

I'm not gonna waste my time researching BULLSHIT, B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T and bingo was his name-o, just to prove you wrong.

Your birth date predicting your whole life for you? That's just silly.

You should check out this website, I'm sure you'll fit right in.

Church of Scientology Religion and Philosophy: Official Web Site For the Churches of Scientology

 

[Nickels]

And you've not given any evidence against except - BECAUSE I SAY SO, nor have you shown any knowledge about the subject you are dismissing.

It's a totally hilariously bad argument when based on no knowlege at all - so ultimately will always come down to - because I say so. Which is pathetic to be honest. NT's are funny that way, just because they can't prove everything they think that something isn't valid even when they know nothing about it.

You cant not pose an argument, then tell every one to do the research for you on some obsurde statement.

You never acknowledge the holes in your statements, you ever acknowledge the logical agruements against your points. This isn't even a thread where logical people can go.

You've brought up arrangements about acupuncture, along with many undocumented cases of how the planets have done this in your life, or that in a friends life. Which is all well and good, however other than bringing up examples of things, or offering PM's about the system your using. You might want to consider a system of arguments other than, "well you can't prove me wrong now can you?''


And although it was very nice of you to send me my full astrological chart, the information therein was very broad, with a lot of " you might have, maybe during this time, possibility, could have," all this type of speak about very general topics, if only they could do better than chance, they might have some objectivity to them.

Also not one word of it was true or applicable to any aspect of my life.

But considering astrology can not do better than chance. All of your arguements are invalid.

You sit by ignoring every good argument, every logical question,every good post, passed up, ignored, not responded to. And you STILL stand on your soap box, and point at us and say "you're just not thinking outside the box enough" or "I cant handle this 20 something male dominance thing, sorry. "

You've said nothing constructive nor logical in any of your posts. I think it is well established that Astrology is a pseudo science. I will agree there is a system to Astrology, and that this system is well developed and defined there is no doubt, that certain celestial bodies have sway and pull over us and the life on the planet is obvious, the sun, and the moon have long been worshiped by primitive peoples. But to say that Mars was the reason for your blood clot, or to give Pluto any credit to ANYTHING in your life, or claiming that Uranus is in charge of technology...

Simply put this is madness. After carefully reviewing the information, any logical person would be able to say that this system is no more accurate than random chance or guess work. Well thought out, very systematic guess work.

Liz you seem nice enough with good intentions, and I'm sure astrology has had a very large impact on your life. But trying to convince a group of rational people about this is not impossible, but with arguing techniques like the ones you're employing, you will never get anywhere. And other than publicly making your self look unintelligent you are achieving nothing more than pissing off a lot of people who pride themselves on their ability to critically think.

Not only have so many people torn your arguments to shreds, even bringing up scientific research AGAINST your topic, you still come forth with "You cant prove im wrong"
You started this thread, and responded to valid questions with " im not doing your homework for you."



Even a broke clock tells the correct time twice a day.

 

[tinkerbell]

You cant not pose an argument, then tell every one to do the research for you on some obsurde statement..

Cheeky, I'm not going to research stuff for other people, who don't know their eggs, if they want to chuck arguments at me usually from the perspective of because I say so then I stuff If I'm going off to prove evedience aginst them.

You never acknowledge the holes in your statements, you ever acknowledge the logical agruements against your points. This isn't even a thread where logical people can go. .

"You've brought up arrangements about acupuncture"

I did and their has been so called sicentific experiment on it that have proven evidence, it works. You can search for it yourself.

You can't prove it wrong - which doens't concern me in the least. But its fun watchin the red in your eyes because you are at a stalemate because you cna't evidence against.

And although it was very nice of you to send me my full astrological chart, the information therein was very broad, with a lot of " you might have, maybe during this time, possibility, could have," all this type of speak about very general topics, if only they could do better than chance, they might have some objectivity to them..

BIZAR - I've not done a full reading for anyone at all, simply cheery picked a few key transits - which would have been liked to triger points. A fully reading take a long time do do.

Also not one word of it was true or applicable to any aspect of my life.

I didn't do a full reading or a natal interpretation, nor did I ever say I would, I simply spotted the major transits - done in about 15-20 minutes. I can do natal readings but they take time to do.

But considering astrology can not do better than chance. All of your arguements are invalid.

BECAUSE I SAY SO
- which is of course nonsence.

You sit by ignoring every good argument, every logical question,every good post, passed up, ignored, not responded to.

Nothing of logic - lots of ignorance and little understanding of what yer talkin about.

The 20 something male domiance thing, is that if enough of you stand back and repeatedly say BECAUSE I SAY SO, then everyone else will back down....


You've said nothing constructive nor logical

You've said nothing edcuated, informed or even slightly objective... most of the discussion has focused around people who are slamming for the sake of it.
>Liz you seem nice enough with good intentions, and I'm sure astrology has had a very large impact on your life. But trying to convince a group of rational people about this is not impossible, but with arguing techniques like the ones you're employing, you will never get anywhere.

Ditto, - because I say so simply wont wash with me either. I'm a raionalist - I'm open to possibilites that lie byond science's ability to prove, I have also seen many so called impossible things be proven scientifically in time. Just because we can't measure today doesn't mean we wont be able to measure next year... So the premis off not science is very loose, even Richard Dawkins admits that.

And other than publicly making your self look unintelligent

I'm smarter than the average bear Nor have I made myself look uninellegent (just because I don't agree with anything you have to say doesn't make me uninelletence in any way).


"you are achieving nothing more than pissing off a lot of people who pride themselves on their ability to critically think. "

Oh dear, who is getting pissed off? not you surely? Critical thinking - is just slamming alternatibe perspective, something to be ashamed off rather than considering, learning before evaluating... Sad real. If you're pissed off, go away.... I'm not asking for you to get traumatised by someone who wont kow tow to the almighty male ego of RIGHTNESS.

"Not only have so many people torn your arguments to shreds"

No one has, lots of people ahve come in and said because I say so, not one have a basic understanding of what they are talking about. NOT ONE! Now that is by no means a trait that is worthy at all. Ignorant argument is just noise....

L

 

[PeaceBaby]

I keep coming back to this thread, hoping that something cogent will be posted.

But alas, 'tis nothing.

I posted my own experiential observations, and reserve judgement on astrology as a whole. My natal chart does bear semblance to my personality traits, so I at least acknowledge there may be SOMETHING to it. But is astrology proven? NO! Have there been many threads here that haven't reduced to "astrology is stupid" - NO!

I am waiting for the NT's to punish astrology with a highly tuned, clinically detached rebuttal.

Or for you Lis to post a highly evolved argument with sources to validate the possibility that astrology can be an accurate predictor.

I'm still waiting ... does an NF have to show you all how debating is done? LOL

So, if neither of the above is going to happen - why must you all keep beating on this dead thread? Stop posting - please! None of you will change Lis' mind regardless, do you not see that?

And Willfrey, I don't believe my objectivity is at peril, but thanks for your encouragement.

 

[tinkerbell]

Hey Peace Baby

The reason astrology tests badly is she sheer number of variables involved. I have to say the tests I've seen are really badly done, they practice good astrology v's good quality research.

A good skeptic who conducted quant research was
Michel Gauquelin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He had to conlude that planets in houses worked but was very skeptical of signs (which I'd find myself).

Sure they wont change my mind, because no real evidence existis that test this stuff properly, and no one here seems educated enough on the subject to discuss it informatively... so the whole its all rubish is based on uninformed knowledge.

There is ultimately no evidence for or against - in the same way as you can't prove or dissprove maridians. Bizarly enough, so many people swallow prescription and OTC drugs without actually realising their is no scientific evidence of a cure, infact most medicine supress symptoms not treat the cause of the medical problem - such the the science of medicine. NICE!

Lis

 

[PeaceBaby]

Lis, I hear you and get where you are coming from.

You just want to open a door, and that's cool.

 

[The Outsider]

I can't believe in astrology, because I've put all my faith into Flying Spaghetti Monster. However, if you were to prove that He isn't real, I'd be turned.

 

[simulatedworld]

Classic Tinkerbell Arguments, Issue #17: The Invisible Blue Pill

"I believe in astrology because there is no evidence whatsoever for or against it, and because many people take prescription drugs without being sure there is evidence that they work."


Collect 'em all, kids!

 

[PeaceBaby]

"I believe in astrology because there is no evidence whatsoever for or against it, and because many people take prescription drugs without being sure there is evidence that they work."

Well, to be fair to tinkerbell, there are many documented studies revealing that certain Rx medications and even surgeries have no greater effect than that of placebo.

An intro to that topic is found by clicking on this link.