Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

[anticlimatic]

And no, it's nothing like the Empire Strikes Back.

Except for...

An assault against a fleeing rebel base on a wide open white planet with imperial walkers.
A jedi wannabe in training seeking out an old hermit master on a far away planet.
A quick trip into a 'dark side of the force' area on the far away planet with the jedi master.
Training that includes: a force tutorial, lifting rocks, and "no! don't go! you're not ready yet!"
An unprepared Jedi in training running off to confront a nemesis prematurely.
A protagonist discovering who their parents are.
A twist in the third act.
Closing on a scene of the scant rebel forces preparing to regroup with Leia in the middle of it.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Except for...

An assault against a fleeing rebel base on a wide open white planet with imperial walkers.
A jedi wannabe in training seeking out an old hermit master on a far away planet.
A quick trip into a 'dark side of the force' area on the far away planet with the jedi master.
Training that includes: a force tutorial, lifting rocks, and "no! don't go! you're not ready yet!"
An unprepared Jedi in training running off to confront a nemesis prematurely.
A protagonist discovering who their parents are.
A twist in the third act.
Closing on a scene of the scant rebel forces preparing to regroup with Leia in the middle of it.

A lot of that was necessitated by the way the last movie ended. Things actually unfolded and developed pretty differently. I suppose it's similar if you look at things on a very superficial level.

 

[anticlimatic]

A lot of that was necessitated by the way the last movie ended. Things actually unfolded and developed pretty differently. I suppose it's similar if you look at things on a very superficial level.

It seemed pretty clearly manufactured in true Disney style by a fleet of experts sticking to the original trilogy script as closely as possible. I think the way things unfolded was the superficial distinction, and everything else was pretty much lockstep.

Poe/Han evolved slightly into someone who is beginning to care more about people than 'getting ahead,' Ray/Luke 1.0 pursued and advanced their training a tiny amount by the only person left alive capable of doing so (in the brief window of time that the person even is alive at all), a love interest progresses as far as a kiss, the antagonist asks the protagonist to 'join me,' and both clearly have bonds/affection for one another.

I mean- what was new, exactly?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

It seemed pretty clearly manufactured in true Disney style by a fleet of experts sticking to the original trilogy script as closely as possible. I think the way things unfolded was the superficial distinction, and everything else was pretty much lockstep.

Poe/Han evolved slightly into someone who is beginning to care more about people than 'getting ahead,' Ray/Luke 1.0 pursued and advanced their training a tiny amount by the only person left alive capable of doing so (in the brief window of time that the person even is alive at all), a love interest progresses as far as a kiss, the antagonist asks the protagonist to 'join me,' and both clearly have bonds/affection for one another.

I mean- what was new, exactly?

The space combat. Everything that happened with Kylo except for "join me." Rey's motivations in facing Kylo were way different. The way the resistance was gradually whittled down over the course of the film. Infiltrating an enemy starship. Conflicts with the chain of command. The training happened really differently and didn't repeat the same beats at all. A jedi master showing up to join the tide of the battle. I could go on and on.

 

[anticlimatic]

The space combat.

If you're leaning on "space combat" as something "new" in a star wars movie, you're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Everything that happened with Kylo except for

"join me."

Like the part where he

force-chokes his sniveling subordinate?

Or how about the part where he

shares one last psychic connection with the protagonist in the pre-credits epilogue?

Or the part where he

kills the sith lord?

I guess that one didn't happen until return of the jedi, but it's nothing new.

Rey's motivations in

facing Kylo

were way different.

They were the same as Luke's motivations in return of the jedi, so while it was a slight side-step from Empire- where luke was just

jumping into battle in a rage to help his friends,

this one feels oddly wrong. I can't put my finger on it, but anytime it mixed Empire with Return it made me kind of ill...if that's even possible. It's like eating thanksgiving dinner, but between bites of turkey and mashed potatoes you get a surprised mouthful of pumpkin pie. Premature. Expected, but not that fast.

The way the resistance was

gradually whittled down over the course of the film.

From the opening crawl in Empire:

Imperial troops have driven the
Rebel forces from their hidden
base and pursued them across
the galaxy.

Infiltrating an enemy starship.

Like "space battles" this is one of those obligatory inserts into any new star wars movie per committee mandate. I don't even see a point in spoiler tagging it, it's so obvious.

Conflicts with the chain of command.

Bureaucratic infighting!

Be still my beating heart! And don't you just love a lesson where the moral of the story is to blindly follow chain of command because

even though they looked like they had their heads up their ass they had a plan all along?

Han Solo is rolling over in his grave.

The training

happened really differently and didn't repeat the same beats at all.

Felt the same to me, even had an

under water X-wing.

I guess it was different in that it was less memorable and Luke was being all

prequels Anakin, and much less like a Yoda.

But like I said, I think it's the "way in which things are done" that's the superficial distinction between Empire and this movie.

A jedi master showing up to join the tide of the battle.

Luke literally showed up in Empire for the exact same reason he did in this movie: buy time so Leia and co could escape.

I could go on and on.

By all means. Please do.

 

[BAD1973]

One of my main issues with the new series is with how they have developed Kylo Ren's character, so far. I feel like part of what made Darth Vader so compelling in the original trilogy was his mask and not knowing what was behind it. With Kylo Ren, they could have had just as poignant a moment with Han without taking the mask off. (Instead the moment was predictable, anti-climactic and fell short of the intended impact.) In this film, as we delve more into the character, learning how/why he turned to the dark side, developing the connection between him and Rey...I feel like they missed an opportunity to withhold his face until a moment of actual connection. It would have made his character seem more cool and less of a whiny little butthole in TFA, and would have made him more believable in TLJ, in my opinion.

I still thought this movie was exactly what it needed to be. There was just the right amount of fan pandering, in my opinion. The audience cheered, clapped, laughed, etc in all the right moments. There was cheese, sure, but all Star Wars movies have cheese...even the original trilogy.

Was it better than the original trilogy? No freaking way. I did like it better than TFA. I was annoyed with how little they used CF and MH in that one. They did better with this one. And Laura Dern's character was phenomenal. I don't necessarily think it was a better film than Rogue One, but it was still good. Not what I expected, but a good installment. Nothing will ever measure up to the original trilogy in my eyes.

I feel like fans have become pretentious with their opinions and expectations. Get over yourselves, people. Even a less-than-stellar SW flick is better than most other movies, and there's no way it will be worse than the prequels.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

One of my main issues with the new series is with how they have developed Kylo Ren's character, so far. I feel like part of what made Darth Vader so compelling in the original trilogy was his mask and not knowing what was behind it. With Kylo Ren, they could have had just as poignant a moment with Han without taking the mask off. (Instead the moment was predictable, anti-climactic and fell short of the intended impact.) In this film, as we delve more into the character, learning how/why he turned to the dark side, developing the connection between him and Rey...I feel like they missed an opportunity to withhold his face until a moment of actual connection. It would have made his character seem more cool and less of a whiny little butthole in TFA, and would have made him more believable in TLJ, in my opinion.

I was lukewarm on him in TFA, but I really like what they did with him here.

 

[Beorn]

I was surprised at what I didn't think was awful.

Like the porgs

Plot was awful. But, there was still plenty to enjoy when I wasn't cringing.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I was surprised at what I didn't think was awful.

Like the porgs

I feel like porgs are bird-like enough to fit in with the theme I've established for my avatar choices. Even though they don't appear to have beaks, but more of a rabbit-like nose.

 

[Beorn]

I feel like porgs are bird-like enough to fit in with the theme I've established for my avatar choices. Even though they don't appear to have beaks, but more of a rabbit-like nose.

Except the theme used to go with your name.

 

[tinker683]

I was surprised at what I didn't think was awful.

Like the porgs

Plot was awful. But, there was still plenty to enjoy when I wasn't cringing.

That was my reaction as well.

There was a lot of fun scenes and sequences but the whole movie felt like two movies squished into one. As such, things were happening so quickly that there wasn't any feeling of attachment to what was happening save for the characters so the story felt hackneyed and pieced together and some scenes, like the whole casino sequence, felt unnecessary.

All the characters were great, save for Kylo Ren and Snoke. I actually am disappointed with Ren's development, he continues to develop along like a petulant child and not like a bad-ass Sith Lord. I do credit Snoke pointing out that he lost to someone with no Jedi training at all. I wanted to know the same damn thing. Also, did he go to the Hayden Christensen school of acting? Why do Sith Lords, who supposedly embrace their passions, only have two buttons to push, brooding and volcanically (no pun) pissed off? He was far more interesting when he kept the helmet on.

About Snoke: he has the ability to read minds but not anticipate a lightsaber being turned toward him. Ok. Will we ever find out who the hell he actually was or where he came from and why I should have cared that he existed at all?

Also, when did 4 bombers turn into "our bomber fleet" ??

I sincerely hope Benico del Toros character comes back in the next movie and has more...well...meaning to the story. He felt like a throw away character in this movie.

I do hope they do more with Rey's parents in the next movie than they did in this one. I sincerely hope they don't leave it where they did.

Phasma - what a disappointment. She survived the TFA to get 5 minutes of screen time and die...again. I realize Boba Fett gained a huge following after a very little amount of screen time but Gwendoline Christie is a delightful actress and she felt so wasted here.

But...aside from all of those quibbling's aside, I did enjoy the movie. The comedy moments all worked, I like a lot of the new characters they introduced, I like what they did with Leia and Luke, the action sequences worked, and they've positioned the story into what could be a grand finale. My hope is that with JJ taking back the directors seat we'll have a story with more meat to it than we did this time around

 

[anticlimatic]

About Snoke: he has the ability to read minds but not anticipate a lightsaber being turned toward him. Ok.

That was one of my favorite little bits in the movie. Clever workaround by Ren to overlap his actions against snoke with his actions against rey. I think he had just enough control over the force to blur the two together, since he couldn't block out snoke completely.

 

[Beorn]

The good news for those that didn't like the film is that the Mr. Plinkett review is going to be awesome. It will probably be as long as the movie.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Except the theme used to go with your name.

It's Christmas. People will forgive me for that.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

It was OK. There were things I really loved and things that I was very meh about.

My overall feeling afterwards was not as positive as after seeing Rogue One, but a vast improvement over TFA, and more original.

Luke must be the most powerful Jedi ever. Ability to project himself across the galaxy via meditation. I imagine he is what Anakin could have become had he not fallen to the dark side and achieved his full potential as a Jedi. I also wish top tier force masters like Yoda and Sidious has been portrayed more like this in the prequels. Basically wizard level who would barely need light sabers, rather than a hyper frog and ninja grandpa ping ponging around the room. Gandalf had a sword but he didn’t usually need it.

I still stick to my guns that Anakin was never the One, despite what Lucas and others say. Luke was. Yoda even admits the prophecy may have been misread in episode three.

I like Kylo Ren a lot more in this one. The fight with Snoke’s guards was pretty sweet.

I’m not crazy about Snoke but I still want to know more of his origins. How did he become so powerful? Was he one of the Emperor’s inquisitors from the old days of the empire?

I had a feeling Luke would die but he got a very dignified death. He didn’t really die, he just transcended the physical plane

Also cool that Luke acknowledged the hubris of the Prequel era Jedi and their failings

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

also some inner fanboy squeeing when Yoda made an appearance. I have to wonder how often force ghosts have visited Luke over the years

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

So is that where blue milk comes from? Big uddered sea lion beach animals?

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Except for...

An assault against a fleeing rebel base on a wide open white planet with imperial walkers.
A jedi wannabe in training seeking out an old hermit master on a far away planet.
A quick trip into a 'dark side of the force' area on the far away planet with the jedi master.
Training that includes: a force tutorial, lifting rocks, and "no! don't go! you're not ready yet!"
An unprepared Jedi in training running off to confront a nemesis prematurely.
A protagonist discovering who their parents are.
A twist in the third act.
Closing on a scene of the scant rebel forces preparing to regroup with Leia in the middle of it.

I realize Lucas was not involved but these movies are basically modern versions of old epic Poems and he said it was all about “rhyming” stanzas.


You can only tell heroes journey stories so many ways and second acts in trilogies are going to be the most bleak, usually

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I feel the new trilogy is so far

Better than the prequels in overall execution and excitement. Not exactly what I hoped for. I would have executed it slightly differently and changed a few minor details in the sequel trilogy, but these are minor issues mostly. I feel engaged and excited, something I only felt in the final two acts of Revenge of the Sith, really.

Worse than the prequels in terms of overall originality. The prequels fail on many levels but I have to at least give them credit for being more original, if not great films. There’s following a loose formula and then there’s following a formula too closely. TFA tried too much to be A New Hope. Last Jedi did not feel like an absolute clone of Empire, but the same beats were there. But hey, it’s Star Wars. I was not expecting it to deviate too much from said formula and I got to see Luke as an elder Jedi Master, which I’ve been waiting for since I was a child.

TL; DR: prequels win on originality but sequels win on execution and exciting my nostalgic inner fanboy

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I can’t help feeling like there were missed opportunities with Snoke. Built up as a major villain, then killed and cast aside as a 1 dimensional bargain bin version of Palpatine. No explanation into his backstory or how he was able to become so powerful and seduce Ben. (Also still waiting to see more of Ren’s disciples he took from Luke’s Academy). Palpatine was carefully built up as mysterious villain, with just a mention of him in 4, a shadow of him in 5 (I still prefer the original to the Special Edition DVD version, BTW) and the grand reveal in 6. I feel they tried to do this with Snoke but missed the mark. But maybe it will pay off and make more sense in the next film.

Andy Serkis is a very talented actor but he is wasted on these films. He is known as THE CGI guy, but he is also talented as a live action actor. The CGI Snoke looked weird. Why not just use live action Serkis with some makeup?