Star Wars 9

[Doctor Cringelord]

You really don't think fan complaints about the prequel trilogy had anything to do with how the Force Awakens was made?

I do. But the filmmakers made the mistake of assuming that meant fans just wanted a new hope. They failed to understand that the biggest points of contention with the PT were poorly written characters and gratuitous fan service Easter eggs and lots of flashy action. The irony is the how sequels repeat the very sins of the prequels despite attempts to avoid them

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, the prequels also had crappy dialogue, there were more issues than just those. It's funny that the earliest reviews of Phantom Menace actually kept complimenting the great visuals and action, and I think critics with name recognition (Peter Travers, I think, was one?) was saying good stuff about the PM. Then it totally got slogged.

If we're bothering with RT scores, TFA got a 93% or something, and in the 80% range from the fans; and TLJ got a 91% with a 40% range from the fans (some of which was haters/trolls, admittedly).

I think it's ludicrous to compare the overall ranks of the prequels with these sequels, are we really forgetting how awful the prequels were especially in terms of the scripts? THe only one with some value was Revenge of the Sith, and frankly it is a film that should have been a lot better than it was -- it was the thematic conclusion to Anakin and derived power from that, but man just think about how good it COULD have been with decent writers. I would easily put TFA and TLJ in a different tier (one that we could label "coherent'), even if we can argue about whether TFA should have been more original than it was.

(For RT comparison: PM = 53/59% ; AotC = 65/56%; and RotS = 80/66%)

So right now, TRoS is simply dropped into the middle of the first two prequels as far as the critic reviews (and the other two sequel films significantly higher); I guess we'll see an audience assessment in about two weeks once enough scores trickle in, since they do "verified scores" now... you have to confirm you paid for a ticket and your viewing date is past.

----

I don't really hang out on fan sites. I think that mentality would drive me nuts. If I were writing TLJ, making Rey "normal" is something I would have done -- that's the kind of convention breaking I appreciate. (my issues were other things -- and maybe to discuss later, but I think this whole "collaborative" effort in the trilogy has been a failure, esp if Abrams walks back / subverts stuff that Johnson did blatantly, and of course Johnson did the same to Abrams... they really should have had a cohesive vision for the entire trilogy ahead of time, not this "fighting for control" of the narrative and throwing each other curve balls. If it's one big story arc, then the directors should have been on the same page and tweaked their pieces to mesh. Or make a conscious agreement to not just trash each other's threads but to respect and REASONABLY incorporate elements as team players...)


--

It looks like TRoS soundtrack dropped on Spotify today. I'm listening to it, but not reading the track titles.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I do. But the filmmakers made the mistake of assuming that meant fans just wanted a new hope. They failed to understand that the biggest points of contention with the PT were poorly written characters and gratuitous fan service Easter eggs and lots of flashy action. The irony is the how sequels repeat the very sins of the prequels despite attempts to avoid them

Plinkett and others went on and on about how he didn't want space politics. In TFA, we learn that there's a New Republic and then it's immediately blown up without anyone bothering to explain why there was a Resistance before that happen. Not saying we necessarily need to hear about trade disputes (although to be honest it's kind of blown out of proportion), but even ANH had a little bit of "space politics" and it's a better movie for it. There's talk about how the Senate has been dissolved, and how there's an Emperor, and a cover story about a diplomatic mission. It's not a lot, but it's enough to make you curious about how the world works and give the story some sense of coherency, thus giving you a good enough idea of why a Rebellion exists in the first place.

It was a major fail to not bother to set up why the central factions are fighting in the first place.

I'd argue that criticism of how boring it was that these movies were about space politics and were too CG heavy were at least as common as complaints about writing and acting, if not more so.

I think it's ludicrous to compare the overall ranks of the prequels with these sequels, are we really forgetting how awful the prequels were especially in terms of the scripts?

People are though! I think some of it is people who grew up with the prequels, but some of it is seems to be hopping on the "it's new so it's the worst thing EVAR" bandwagon.

THe only one with some value was Revenge of the Sith, and frankly it is a film that should have been a lot better than it was -- it was the thematic conclusion to Anakin and derived power from that, but man just think about how good it COULD have been with decent writers. I would easily put TFA and TLJ in a different tier (one that we could label "coherent'), even if we can argue about whether TFA should have been more original than it was.

I rated Revenge of the Sith lower than TPM it was because the gap between what it was and what it could have been was so great, and it's hard for me to let that go. At least Luke or Han didn't "lose the will to live" when they died.

The acting in the sequels is so much better, too.

I don't really hang out on fan sites. I think that mentality would drive me nuts. If I were writing TLJ, making Rey "normal" is something I would have done -- that's the kind of convention breaking I appreciate. (my issues were other things -- and maybe to discuss later, but I think this whole "collaborative" effort in the trilogy has been a failure, esp if Abrams walks back / subverts stuff that Johnson did blatantly, and of course Johnson did the same to Abrams... they really should have had a cohesive vision for the entire trilogy ahead of time, not this "fighting for control" of the narrative and throwing each other curve balls. If it's one big story arc, then the directors should have been on the same page and tweaked their pieces to mesh. Or make a conscious agreement to not just trash each other's threads but to respect and REASONABLY incorporate elements as team players...)

I think I'm probably going to end up agreeing with you on that when all this is done, if the reviews are at all accurate.

 

[Totenkindly]

I finished the soundtrack earlier. I think I liked "The Force Awakens" soundtrack the best of the three in this series, but mainly it's because it added new elements (like the First Order march, which I think is cool). There's a LITTLE bit of new themes in TRoS but most of it is just a rework of themes starting in TFA or from other SW trilogies.

With the end credit sequences, I really like the end of TFA; the end of TRoS harkens back to the regular SW theme from ANH, so it's kind of predictable -- but hell, I expected that because it's capping 9 films and of course it is going to go out with a bang using the original theme to send it back to the starting point. However, I really like the very ending, with the brass using lush versions of the chords... really beautiful sound.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I finished the soundtrack earlier. I think I liked "The Force Awakens" soundtrack the best of the three in this series, but mainly it's because it added new elements (like the First Order march, which I think is cool). There's a LITTLE bit of new themes in TRoS but most of it is just a rework of themes starting in TFA or from other SW trilogies.

With the end credit sequences, I really like the end of TFA; the end of TRoS harkens back to the regular SW theme from ANH, so it's kind of predictable -- but hell, I expected that because it's capping 9 films and of course it is going to go out with a bang using the original theme to send it back to the starting point. However, I really like the very ending, with the brass using lush versions of the chords... really beautiful sound.

Does it use Duel of the Fates?

 

[Totenkindly]

Haha it's sitting at 59%... can it ever break 60%??

Does it use Duel of the Fates?

I don't think it's caught in there, but I'll be listening again.

I haven't listened to the prequel music recently but yeah DotF is the most memorable theme from there to me.

----

Man, I so badly wanted a harp run on the very last note. Alas. I can almost hear it. Maybe it's cheesy, but it would have sounded cool.



John Williams Puts Coda on ‘Star Wars’ With ‘Rise of Skywalker’ Score – Variety

He definitely has his thumbprint on the franchise. It's his musical footprint. 9 films.

 

[JocktheMotie]

Does it use Duel of the Fates?

I was looking for it and couldn't find it, which is unfortunate because hearing that in the trailers was only good part of those.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I don't think it's caught in there, but I'll be listening again.
.

I was looking for it and couldn't find it, which is unfortunate because hearing that in the trailers was only good part of those.

Damn. It would be great to have it bookend the series like that.

It's a missed opportunity, just like Rey not using a saberstaff after the old one is destroyed. The only thing "special" about that blade was that it was Luke's father's blade, and he used it when he has a mistaken idea of who his father was. It's the same blade he used to kick off the Jedi purge. It's not as though it's a perfect for the heroic resurgence of the Jedi. The only reason it would even be "special" enough for Rey to repair it instead of making a new one would be if she's a (groan) Skywalker.

It feels like the reason the blade keeps popping up is not because the symbolism really fits or because it particularly makes sense in terms of the story, but just because they want to make a callback movie to the two Star Wars movies everyone likes. I wonder if we're even going to get an explanation of how that blade was found in this one (probably not).

 

[Totenkindly]

Just walked out of the theater.

Absolutely dumbfounded.

What the f*cking hell.

Edit: yeah, I agree with Scott.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Just walked out of the theater.

Absolutely dumbfounded.

What the f*cking hell.

Edit: yeah, I agree with Scott.

I read some leaks a month or two ago, and thought "if that's legit, this sounds like a mess." At least some of the stuff in the leaks seems supported by the trailers.

I went on reddit and checked the megathread in the SW subreddit. In addition to the spoilers, which confirmed some of my biggest fears (although not sticking exactly to the leak), the most striking thing about this is how negative the reaction seems to be. I recall very little way in the way of positive comments beyond jokes about characters hooking up. Which is unique. Usually there's a vocal contingent of defenders and attackers. Of course, I usually haven't checked opening night feedback, but the prequels had their defenders.

I've thought a few weeks ago that what Star Wars needs to do is just move away from the established characters and focus on new ones in new situation. The things that have done that have been pretty well received. Rogue One (more or less) and the Mandalorian seem to be pretty well-liked by most people. i think it helps that they don't have the "baggage" of having a legacy; they're not defined by the past so I think that helps people appreciate them for what they are.

Of course that doesn't necessarily mean that the criticism against Rise of Skywalker is unfair.

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, I typically like Abrams' films (I know you guys don't, as much, if at all), and I thought aside from cribbing "A new Hope" (which was the big flaw), he still put TFA together with a good sense of pace, defining character well, setting tone and mood well. It's something I like about him -- I like Mission Impossible 3, I like most of Super 8 (and some of it's inert), etc.

But damn, this felt like the work of an amateur and a spaghetti mess. His STRENGTHS weren't even that readily apparent, much of the time. Did he actually direct this film? How did the script get written? Why did anyone greenlight this script? I'm just shocked -- it's just like Scott said, in terms of his original expectation, and how this film surpassed it in the negative direction.l

Like, honestly, please feel free to go enjoy it -- I know I had a really bad reaction to it. So if you can enjoy it, please do. I'll be interested in hearing what others have to say.

I really feel like I have to apologize for griping about Rian Johnson, though. I'd rather have something more like The Last Jedi than this.

 

[The Cat]

It's kinda hard to fuck up a new idea. No one's done it yet so who knows if theyre doing it wrong or not.

 

[The Cat]

Well, I typically like Abrams' films (I know you guys don't, as much, if at all), and I thought aside from cribbing "A new Hope" (which was the big flaw), he still put TFA together with a good sense of pace, defining character well, setting tone and mood well. It's something I like about him -- I like Mission Impossible 3, I like most of Super 8 (and some of it's inert), etc.

But damn, this felt like the work of an amateur and a spaghetti mess. His STRENGTHS weren't even that readily apparent, much of the time. Did he actually direct this film? How did the script get written? Why did anyone greenlight this script? I'm just shocked -- it's just like Scott said, in terms of his original expectation, and how this film surpassed it in the negative direction.l

Like, honestly, please feel free to go enjoy it -- I know I had a really bad reaction to it. So if you can enjoy it, please do. I'll be interested in hearing what others have to say.

I really feel like I have to apologize for griping about Rian Johnson, though. I'd rather have something more like The Last Jedi than this.

The man plays keyboard like a god. He's got a pass in my book.

 

[Totenkindly]

Okay, here are some random spoilers.

Did Abrams retcon any of The Last Jedi?

Yes. Pretty much nothing in TLJ mattered. There is no consistency of character from TLJ to TRoS. Luke is now a stereotypical happy jedi force ghost serving a typical force ghost purpose. Kylo makes a new mask and oh he still loves his daddy, so he becomes good rather than remaining existentially on the dark path (where he seemed settled last film), negating all of his hard character work in the first two films. The jedi are back and oh that's a good thing. Rose Tico is in the film but might as well not have been. I can continue, but Abrams freaking retconned it all, in essence. Funny way to say he "respects Johnson's version." He overwrote it out of existence.

Does Rey have nobody parents? Or is she from significant lineage?

Rey is Palpatine's granddaughter. Her parents actually were kind of "nobodies" because they ditched her and laid low to protect her out of love, and refused to give up her location because crazy megalomaniac Grandpa wanted her back. This kinda sucks for those of us who were happy with her being no one. It's better than her being a Skywalker, at least.... and on occasion the film tries to grapple with what this means, but it's not really dug into too much beyond plot. There could have been some really great psychodrama here.

Do Poe/Finn shippers have anything to be excited about?

No. The film sexlessly pairs each of them up with new female characters who pretty much amount to nothing in the end. it's totally rated G, almost on the level of a kid's film where adults think "okay, they might get married someday" and kids won't even notice there's a relationship. It's clear Disney wanted to shy far away from sex/marriage of any kind and persuasion.

Does Hux feature prominently in this film?

What's really ironic is that he amounts to little, then you can piece together that he is the mole and finally admits it -- and when his cover is blown to the rebels, he says his reason is because "I WANT KYLO REN TO FAIL!" but otherwise doesn't care who wins the war anymore. That actually makes him really interesting -- because of course he would hate Kylo, who has been badgering him for two movies and stripping him of authority. But then the script kills him off like dead weight about two minutes later, so... so much for that plot twist. It's pretty sad because this guy was a major player in the first two films, more or less, and now gets treated like a red shirt extra.

Do we find out who Snoke is?

I THINK in passing -- it's a blink and miss it thing -- that he was physically made by Palpatine and sent out to lure Rey to come to him. Again, wtf. Yeah, he was just some kind of bio-experiment with super-force powers just to capture Rey... although in TLJ he was about to KILL Rey. Sigh. Like I said, the film has no regard for TLJ. I guess Snoke just let himself die on purpose as part of Palpatine's plan, rather than kill Rey? Is that the shoddy logic?

Is Phasma really dead?

One of the few things Abrams didn't touch. Phasma is not mentioned nor does she appear in this film, so I suppose that -- yes, she truly did die in that flaming fall at the hands of "rebel scum."

Do Kylo and Rey hook up in the end?

They should, but we don't even get that. Kylo turns good, they obviously care about each other (Rey says she would have taken "Ben's hand" but not Kylo's, in TLJ), but then they have Rey die from the stress right after she kills the emperor (when ANYTHING might have happened), just so they can have Ben come back from what looked like a needless fall to his own death and bring her back to life and die in her place after they kiss. Again, needlessly. Like who fucking cares? Why did they even go that way if they were just going to treat it so manipulatively? I can think of a few hundred variations on the ending that would have been more interesting and/or more emotionally satisfying. I mean, they could have been ENTIRELY cliche and let "Ben and Rey live together happily ever after" as fan service and it would have felt lame, sure; but even THAT would have been better than what happened. The resolution feels very contrived and pleases no one and serves no character-building purpose.

What's up with C3PO?

Arguably the most emotional part of the film -- I didn't feel much at that point, honestly, because I knew it would either be meaningless or they'd retcon it in their own film later (Update: they did) -- they have to find the Sith Wayfinder, but the instructions are in Sith glyphs on a dagger that btw we find out was used to murder Rey's parents. C3PO understands it, since he's an amazing metal polyglot, but since he's a rebel droid he's "not allowed to speak it" or it will shut him down, I guess. They lose the dagger but it's still in his head (kind of like how Rey sees the map, so Kylo just kidnaps her in TFA), but he's still programmed not to share the data. They can hack his brain but it will force a shutdown and a memory wipe. C3PO volunteers to be wiped so then they can acquire the Wayfinder's location -- it's an act of bravery, since the stakes are do or die.

C3PO comes back with red eyes cuz he's a Ba- ba-ba-bad droid now. Then he reboots and forgets all his friends.

Until he gets back to base and R2D2 just uploads a prior recording of his memories. So he's now more like C3PO with a case of amnesia from the past two years or so.

Like I said, the movie was edited and written so poorly, I didn't feel much at all.

Does the film open well?

The opening feels out of the blue, because of the plot leap forward in the running scroll, but okay, fine -- Kylo kills a bunch of dudes to find the Sith wayfinder and visits Palpatine. Then we see Finn and Poe doing a Finn/Poe mini-adventure and escaping tie fighters after they get info from a mole in the First Order. It's not a STRONG opening, but it would be passable if the film got better after. It doesn't. The first hour of the film has no pacing, no emotional connection, not much rhyme or reason, it's just characters doing shit at a breakneck pace. Somehow Kylo shows up and actually almost runs over Rey and then they face off and Force-fight over a shuttle -- like wtf. But we realize it is all so we can see Rey use electricity. Oh, guess whose powers THAT reminds you of? And Rey seems to kill Chewbacca in the process -- but hey, he was in the SECOND shuttlecraft we never knew was there, so he really wasn't dead at all -- and they revealed that about two minutes later. And then Kylo stands there not doing anything so they can all escape?

There is also twice in short order when Finn wants to "tell Rey something" and never does because they are interrupted by Poe (like, does he love her now or something?? rather than Rose, who he kissed? or the other stormtrooper girl appearing in this film, who you think he will hook up with but never does?)... and then it is dropped and never brought up again.

Anyway, the first hour just feels like random shit without no real stakes or emotional resonance or real pacing. THEN we get a scene where Rey and Kylo are force-sharing again -- the best parts of TLJ -- so you'd think the film would improve and feels like it is... but nope. It will continue to veer between ALMOST getting better, then back to shit again. It cribs some decent elements from TLJ but never does them as well.

Does the film end well?

The last three minutes are both great and stupid. Rey goes back to Tattooine (because hey it's so much like Jakku!), to the old Skywalker ranch. She slides down into the home area on a metal plate, like she used to do on Jakku -- nice callback -- but then buries Luke and Leia's lightsabers in the sand, because she has her own now. (Like why does she need her own, though? If she's not doing the jedi thing anymore? ANd the first order is gone? Does she need a lightsaber?) Someone asks her who she is... and she sees Luke and Leia's force ghosts (sigh) and says instead of "Rey Palpatine" that she is "Rey Skywalker." Awwwww..... But what of her family and friends? Why is she living alone? They were her family! Why is she isolating herself? It doesn't even make sense, but it does leave warm fuzzy feelings if you don't think hard about it. You get my drift. It's hackneyed but sentimental... but again, just letting her stay with her friends including Finn, who she cares so much about, would have made more sense.

How does Leia fit into this?

Leia does her typical Leia role, but just based on snippets of unused footage. It's kinda.... eh. Not awful, not great. And then she decides to reach out across a vast distance with her Force power to talk to her son Ben, while he's fighting Rey on the Death Star remains. Rey stabs him through the gut with her saber when he is distracted, and Leia dies from the strain of effort, as she expected. So Leia's dead by the middle of the film. But hey, Rey feels bad, so she heals Kylo, and that + a vision of Daddy Solo makes him a good guy. Wow. So Leia was right. ACtually, I have seen the suggesting that Leia makes the memory of Han manifest (which at least explains why Han seems real), but I thought she died before he appeared? I don't know now.

We also find out during this film that (1) Leia has been Rey's "master" and teaching her force shit and (2) Leia was trained by Luke and actually was decent with a lightsaber, but left her saber in his care so a future jedi could use it as per a vision she had... or she was avoiding a vision she had or something. Does it matter? turns out Luke had it hidden in his hut on Ahkto (sigh) and so he gives it to Rey, so she has two sabers with her -- Luke's AND Leia's -- when she faces the emperor. Of course, there's no sign of this in TLJ.

I was really happy with Leia being force sensitive without being a jedi per se. So she had a different powerset. But no...let's just retcon Leia as a secret jedi too who did cliche Jedi things. whatever. Why couldn't Leia then save the resistance, if she had official jedi training and was effectively a jedi? Why was Luke the last hope?

Does the film ever explain why Palpatine is alive?

No. At least I don't think so. Its all a part of the running scroll at the beginning of the film, as an assumption of the backstory. Sigh. But as noted, this is the least egregious part of the film.

what is Palpatine's plan?

Well, first he wants Kylo Ren to kill Rey, and then Kylo can be in charge of everything. Maybe the plan was for Ren to take his power? Or did he ask him to find her so they could be on the throne together? I don't remember anymore. He was supposed to do SOMETHING with her.

But then it seems he wants Rey (when she shows up) to kill him. Because if she kills him as part of the ritual, she will absorb his spirit and they will become one -- and all the prior Sith who were merged with the Emperor will also be one with her. like a really creepy version of Being John Malkovich. (Being Emperor Palpatine?) In other words, the Emperor is dead, long live the Empress.

Rey flips this around because all the JEDI fill her as the Emperor full of all the Sith eventually tries to murder her for refusing to kill and absorb him. He tries to force lightning her but she has two lightsabers, so she can reflect it all back on him until he bursts like a large zit. But then of course it kills her after we think she's won, after the scene cuts out somewhere else, than back to her. Cuz hey, we have to do something dramatic and/or find a way to kill Ben, who is already dead but not really.

How do the rebels beat Palpatine's fleet?

Btw, each ship in his fleet is equipped with a planet-shattering weapon. Lovely -- it's like portable death stars. FU, Abrams.

Anyway, remember when we at least saw a little boy at the end of TLJ signifying there were other people who might support the rebels but just needed a vision? Well, that was more than Abrams gives us in THIS film. At the end of TLJ, they send a message and no one comes. This time, Lando Calrissian goes to send out a beacon "because if you send a beacon, they will come." Guess what? What the rebels are about all going to die in the space battle, suddenly Lando comes back and the sky is festooned with all these rebel ships that came literally out of nowhere. Because apparently all you had to do was ask and they would all show up THIS time.

Talk about Deux ex Machina.

what were your favorite parts of the film?

Pretty much only the Ben and Rey bits were decent, and they weren't as good as they should have been. Ridley and Driver sell the heck out of them, they are just let down by the writing.

I like the watery Death Star saber fight.

I like Rey is afraid of going Sith because he's a Palpatine, but the film never really gives credence to that possibility. She meets her Sith self at one point. Interesting, but not as good as it should have been.

The notion that Rey and Ben were a Dyad... but they don't do anything with it. Maybe they could have become king and queen -- but benevolent? Maybe they could have merged a bit? Something. Anything.

Honestly... that might be it? The epilogue ALMOST was good but still made no sense.

What was the audience response in my theater?

There was some applause when the film started. There was less applause when it ended. Most people just got up and left. No one cheered. Few were talking about the film. Anyone remaining just sat in silence staring at the screen. I didn't see much emotion like I would have expected.

Any interesting cameos?

Yes, I guess.
Keri Russell -- the "almost" love interest of Poe, wearing her mask. we only ever see her eyes.
Dominic Monaghan -- Yeah, Charlie from Lost... on par with Ken Leung from Lost and Greg Grunberg from Heroes showing up in TFA. Actually I think Grunberg shows up here too.
Billie Dee Williams -- Lando Calrissian. Cuz he's the only core trilogy old dude left alive at this point.
Ian McDiarmid -- Palpatine obviously
the Knights of Ren -- yeah, they show up in this film, faceless and rather pointless. They live a kind of Thug Lite Life, then Ben is forced to blue-lightsaber them all in the endgame. We never learn anything about them.
Chris Terrio -- the scripter, did the voice of Ackbar's son (?)
Warwick Davis
John Williams (the composer)
A lot of Jedi and Sith VOICES (the actual actors from other films), that are dubbed in during the climax. Like... ALL of them, check out the IMDB credits. Justice League roll call!
Harrison Ford -- yes, he appears to Kylo... but he's not a force ghost, he's a "memory" -- yeah whatever. Still not sure how this works, but Ford sells it hard.
Mark Hamill -- Force ghost
Lin-Manual Miranda -- the guy who wrote "hamilton," I guess he was a soldier but I missed him

Oh yeah -- and a shot of some ewoks at film end. Can you believe it? At least Endor was in the film, so there's a reason?

Also, Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver are good. I never really fault their performances, and Daisy was pretty new as an actress coming into this franchise. They sell everything as best as they can.

I also found this reddit tonight of leaks about the movie from three months ago -- and it's actually more or less correct. (There's just some occasional details that are off.) In case anyone is interested at some point:
The basic plot of Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker assembled from my sources. : StarWarsLeaks

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I also found this reddit tonight of leaks about the movie from three months ago -- and it's actually more or less correct. (There's just some occasional details that are off.) In case anyone is interested at some point:
The basic plot of Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker assembled from my sources. : StarWarsLeaks

That's actually not the same leak I read.

 

[Totenkindly]

That's actually not the same leak I read.

I know there are a few out there.

The same page has an extensive description by someone who claimed to see the film before its official release. I read it through. It's about 99% correct, for all intents and purposes. Pretty interesting that these kinds of leaks exist.... Anyway I found it more useful than the wiki page to retouch things I missed. The descriptions can sound more coherent than the actual film as presented.

I tried to prep for not needing to use the bathroom during the film. About an hour in, I actually just got up and went because I no longer cared if I missed anything.

In good news, I did see a trailer for TENET from Christopher Nolan, and a few other upcoming films...

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I know there are a few out there.

The same page has an extensive description by someone who claimed to see the film before its official release. I read it through. It's about 99% correct, for all intents and purposes. Pretty interesting that these kinds of leaks exist.... Anyway I found it more useful than the wiki page to retouch things I missed. The descriptions can sound more coherent than the actual film as presented.

I tried to prep for not needing to use the bathroom during the film. About an hour in, I actually just got up and went because I no longer cared if I missed anything.

In good news, I did see a trailer for TENET from Christopher Nolan, and a few other upcoming films...

The one I read had the wayfinder, the star destroyers with death star lasers, and the 3PO stuff but also had Luke's ghost resurrecting Ben after he turns, which evidentally doesn't happen.

It sounds like the movie renders Luke and Kylo's journey in the past movie utterly pointless. Both Anakin and Luke's sacrifice is pointless, since the massive fleet of ships we saw in the trailer evidently has nothing to do with people being inspired by Luke and instead has to do with Lando. Now that, I think, is something that does a disservice to Luke. Not that I mind having Lando back.... it's just... wasn't that the point of Luke's sacrifice?

I'll add that I never saw the conclusion of The Last Jedi as saying that the Jedi should not be come back. I think the point was that the prequel era Jedi were flawed , which I don't think we were supposed to take as being emblematic of the Jedi as a whole. I assume the Jedi order evolved over the centuries into something stagnant and ossified. Qui-Gon is supposed to be what the Jedi should be like, but they lost their way. (Granted, I think the writing in TPM doesn't really do that concept justice, but I think it was what was intended. At the very least it's what later canonical items (like The Clone Wars) suggest.

Oh, and this business about not bothering to explain Palpatine's resurrection at all is just like all the vague stuff about the Resistance and the Republic that annoyed me about TFA, but far worse. I can't even really attribute that to people over-correcting because of the films that came before.

I really wanted to see more of Supreme Leader Kylo, but alas....


It sounds like this movie has "Martha" levels of stupidity, which was a bit that I thought couldn't possibly be as dumb as it was described, but nevertheless exceeded my expectations.


Edit: I forgot that Chris Terrio wrote Batman Vs. Superman. I forgot the trepidation I had about that. I suppose I'm not wrong to make that comparison.

At any rate, I'll post my own take after I see it tomorrow evening... probably with the help of booze.

 

[Totenkindly]

‘Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker’ – We Need to Talk About This Rose Tico Situation

Yeah, she's basically excised from the film aside from a few cameos that anyone could have filled structurally. If someone had not seen TLJ, they would have no idea how central she was to the movie or to Finn. Instead, they try to ship Finn with Jannox and Rose just appears in the base occasionally for a line or two of dialogue. I mean, come on -- like it or not, she almost dies to save Finn in TLJ and they kiss. I guess things didn't work out and they want to keep things professional?

Edit: I forgot that Chris Terrio wrote Batman Vs. Superman. I forgot the trepidation I had about that. I suppose I'm not wrong to make that comparison.

I remember looking at his credits earlier. He had one good script -- Argo -- and it's a very different film.

I still find the extended version of BvS watchable despite its flaws, since Snyder still lets the scenes breathe some and Goyer was a cowriter. This film feels in part too like there was too much film for the runtime, and Abrams solved this by excising everything in the first hour that could have made the film breathe and/or make more sense. But the problems go beyond that.

It's like Terrio didn't know how to write this kind of film; Kasdan and Arndt had a much better handle on the first one.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

While the rebels/resistance kind of forgot about Palpatine, he certainly hasn’t forgotten about them.


I never really had a problem with the general story of TLJ, just the execution of it. I don’t really think retconning was necessary. They should have gone into this trilogy with a better outline.

It’s actually quite a shame, how Johnson made what felt like 2 or 3 good TV episodes someone took and re-edited into a disjointed feature, because I think he would have done better creating a live action series in the universe

 

[The Cat]

Looks like director spur grapes. How to unmake a movie that kept you from directing a whole trilogy.