[SP] SP's and Se.

[King sns]

I have to admit, I'm curious. There seem to be two ideas of what it is.

The first is simply wanting to do things like try new foods, pay attention to and learn from your surroundings, seek physically stimulating experiences such as music, art, running/walking, and also just generally make the current environment comfortable. I seem to be able to deal with this one reasonably well.

The other idea is wanting to get into fights, jump out of airplanes, climb mountains, make crude jokes, behave in a threatening, assertive manner, not respecting authority, and enjoy getting your clothes dirty. I don't really like this one at all.

The thing is, I've heard both of these things as related to Se. Obviously they can't both be right. So, which do you identify with more? Both? Neither?

It might also help if you described it the way you experience it.

Well, I think all of the activities listed above could possibly be associated with Se. Since Se is a cognitive process though, it would really depend on the person, and how they interpret their Se, if that makes any sense. In other words, just because you have the Se doesn't mean you have to encompass all the traits listed above. Your actions would also depend on other factors such as your background, morals, etc. etc. "Behaving in a threatening assertive manner" doesn't really sound Se, though. Could be coming from anyone who is angry.

I've highlighted the ones I enjoy.


But with some explanations. I like to try new foods but would rather stick with the old ones. I just like food in general. If its food, i'll eat it most of the time.
I've never jumped out of a plane but really want to try it.
"not respecting authority." is that an Se thing? I don't know. But I don't disrespect authority for the sake of being disrespectful, I just tend to be suspicious authorities and unintimidated to ask questions, and state my opinion to them. (In a non-threatening, conversational way.) And I don't think that's disrespectful, I think its healthy and in the end I actually get along better with people in positions of authority than anyone else! They usually don't mind simple questioning and feedback! Sorry about going a little

edit: hmm. did not realize how old this thread was till now! oh well. leaving the post anyway.

 

[wolfy]

Well, I think all of the activities listed above could possibly be associated with Se. Since Se is a cognitive process though, it would really depend on the person, and how they interpret their Se, if that makes any sense. In other words, just because you have the Se doesn't mean you have to encompass all the traits listed above. Your actions would also depend on other factors such as your background, morals, etc. etc. "Behaving in a threatening assertive manner" doesn't really sound Se, though. Could be coming from anyone who is angry.

Love it how you say that! Me too!

 

[Unique]

Define Se?

It's made of pure awesome.

But seriously it has nothing to do with wanting to leap out of planes. It's being the ultimate realist, its about the current moment, its about what really matters, it's about being able to simplify the complex and its the quick remembrance of a past event to know exactly what to do NOW.

 

[King sns]

Define Se?

It's made of pure awesome.

But seriously it has nothing to do with wanting to leap out of planes. It's being the ultimate realist, its about the current moment, its about what really matters, it's about being able to simplify the complex and its the quick remembrance of a past event to know exactly what to do NOW.

That was beautiful.

 

[wolfy]

Se is about using your environment to impact your environment.

 

[Athenian200]

Well, I think all of the activities listed above could possibly be associated with Se. Since Se is a cognitive process though, it would really depend on the person, and how they interpret their Se, if that makes any sense. In other words, just because you have the Se doesn't mean you have to encompass all the traits listed above. Your actions would also depend on other factors such as your background, morals, etc. etc. "Behaving in a threatening assertive manner" doesn't really sound Se, though. Could be coming from anyone who is angry.

I've highlighted the ones I enjoy.


But with some explanations. I like to try new foods but would rather stick with the old ones. I just like food in general. If its food, i'll eat it most of the time.
I've never jumped out of a plane but really want to try it.
"not respecting authority." is that an Se thing? I don't know. But I don't disrespect authority for the sake of being disrespectful, I just tend to be suspicious authorities and unintimidated to ask questions, and state my opinion to them. (In a non-threatening, conversational way.) And I don't think that's disrespectful, I think its healthy and in the end I actually get along better with people in positions of authority than anyone else! They usually don't mind simple questioning and feedback! Sorry about going a little

edit: hmm. did not realize how old this thread was till now! oh well. leaving the post anyway.

I'm actually glad you responded. I was disappointed earlier on at the lack of responses.

The bolded parts were particularly interesting...

You seem to have come up with the idea that the expression of cognitive functions would be affected by environmental factors such as upbringing. Interesting... I suppose that makes sense.

You also seem to have developed a realistic perception of authority, which is also rather rare... you don't view them as perfect and worthy of unquestioning obedience, nor do you view them as incompetent/malicious people who must be rebelled against at all costs. You typically just see them as people trying to do what they think is best in order to keep things going.

For someone who doesn't like philosophy or similar kinds of abstract discussion, you're certainly on your way to having interesting perspectives on many such questions.

 

[King sns]

thanks. MBTI is the exception though.. i'm not very good at it but I do find it quite interesting to read about
Edit: (and socionics)

 

[sarah]

I have to admit, I'm curious. There seem to be two ideas of what it is.

The first is simply wanting to do things like try new foods, pay attention to and learn from your surroundings, seek physically stimulating experiences such as music, art, running/walking, and also just generally make the current environment comfortable. I seem to be able to deal with this one reasonably well.

The other idea is wanting to get into fights, jump out of airplanes, climb mountains, make crude jokes, behave in a threatening, assertive manner, not respecting authority, and enjoy getting your clothes dirty. I don't really like this one at all.

The thing is, I've heard both of these things as related to Se. Obviously they can't both be right. So, which do you identify with more? Both? Neither?

It might also help if you described it the way you experience it.

Why can't they both be right? Not every SP craves the same sorts of vital experiences, and certainly not every SP needs to be a hell-raiser, but I don't see why both those descriptions of extraverted sensing can't be extraverted sensing.

I crave experiencing reality through my senses, as keenly as possible as long as those experiences are pleasant. I don't like pain. I learn best by hands-on experience. I get joy out of living by noticing beauty around me, and I get joy out of creating beauty with my hands. I love to try new things, I love to travel, and I love experiencing the world tangibly. On the other hand, I don't abuse my body. I love my body and I want to stay healthy and supple for as long as possible! I don't have any need to court death (I'm too busy enjoying life). I don't like extreme sports. I don't see "risk taking" as being all about extreme bodily risks. I don't make crude jokes. I respect only authorities that are worth respecting. I get my clothes dirty when I'm gardening or creating something messy, but when I do that, I wear clothes that can be easily washed. I can understand why some SPs like "living on the edge" without wanting to abuse my body or live an extreme lifestyle. Personally, I get enough thrills living my life the way I choose to live it right now.

 

[Walking Tourist]

For me, Se is the part of me that helps me see the world as beautiful and new every day. When it snows, those snowflakes are the only snowflakes that exist for me. When I walk through a puddle, that puddle water delights me, especially when I can see reflections in it. I walk by the river and see the ducks swimming. Maybe they were the same ducks that I saw yesterday. It doesn't matter. It is only this very moment that matters.
The past has faded away to memories and the future doesn't exist, except in someone's imagination. Se keeps me in this stunning moment so that I can explore the world with fresh eyes.

 

[cascadeco]

I crave experiencing reality through my senses, as keenly as possible as long as those experiences are pleasant. I don't like pain. I learn best by hands-on experience. I get joy out of living by noticing beauty around me, and I get joy out of creating beauty with my hands. I love to try new things, I love to travel, and I love experiencing the world tangibly. On the other hand, I don't abuse my body. I love my body and I want to stay healthy and supple for as long as possible! I don't have any need to court death (I'm too busy enjoying life). I don't like extreme sports. I don't see "risk taking" as being all about extreme bodily risks. I don't make crude jokes. I respect only authorities that are worth respecting. I get my clothes dirty when I'm gardening or creating something messy, but when I do that, I wear clothes that can be easily washed. I can understand why some SPs like "living on the edge" without wanting to abuse my body or live an extreme lifestyle. Personally, I get enough thrills living my life the way I choose to live it right now.

For me, Se is the part of me that helps me see the world as beautiful and new every day. When it snows, those snowflakes are the only snowflakes that exist for me. When I walk through a puddle, that puddle water delights me, especially when I can see reflections in it. I walk by the river and see the ducks swimming. Maybe they were the same ducks that I saw yesterday. It doesn't matter. It is only this very moment that matters.
The past has faded away to memories and the future doesn't exist, except in someone's imagination. Se keeps me in this stunning moment so that I can explore the world with fresh eyes.

Oh how I love Se. Se-things and perspectives, such as what I've highlighted above, tend to be what makes me happiest in life anyway. So I definitely aspire to bringing more of it into my life, and know for me too it's an important aspect of my existance and identity. Definitely a necessity for me so that I don't get too wrapped up in my internal world.

 

[sarah]

Oh how I love Se. Se-things and perspectives, such as what I've highlighted above, tend to be what makes me happiest in life anyway. So I definitely aspire to bringing more of it into my life, and know for me too it's an important aspect of my existance and identity. Definitely a necessity for me so that I don't get too wrapped up in my internal world.

for cascademn and her appreciation of Se.

 

[Jack Flak]

Jung says!...

6. Sensation

Sensation, in the extraverted attitude, is most definitely conditioned by the object. As sense-perception, sensation is naturally dependent upon the object. But, just as naturally, it is also dependent upon the subject; hence, there is also a subjective sensation, which after its kind is entirely different from the objective. In the extraverted attitude this subjective share of sensation, in so far as its conscious application is concerned, is either inhibited or repressed. As an irrational function, sensation is equally repressed, whenever a rational function, thinking or feeling, possesses the priority, ie. it can be said to have a conscious function, only in so far as the rational attitude of consciousness permits accidental perceptions to become conscious contents; in short, realizes them. The function of sense is, of course, absolute in the stricter sense; for example, everything is seen or heard to the farthest physiological possibility, but not everything attains that threshold value which a perception must possess in order to be also apperceived. It is a different matter when sensation itself possesses priority, instead of merely seconding another function. In this case, no element of objective sensation is excluded and nothing repressed (with the exception of the subjective share [p. 457] already mentioned). Sensation has a preferential objective determination, and those objects which release the strongest sensation are decisive for the individual's psychology. The result of this is a pronounced sensuous hold to the object. Sensation, therefore, is a vital function, equipped with the potentest [sic] vital instinct. In so far as objects release sensations, they matter; and, in so far as it lies within the power of sensation, they are also fully accepted into consciousness, whether compatible with reasoned judgment or not. As a function its sole criterion of value is the strength of the sensation as conditioned by its objective qualities. Accordingly, all objective processes, in so far as they release sensations at all, make their appearance in consciousness. It is, however, only concrete, sensuously perceived objects or processes which excite sensations in the extraverted attitude; exclusively those, in fact, which everyone in all times and places would sense as concrete. Hence, the orientation of such an individual corresponds with purely concrete reality. The judging, rational functions are subordinated to the concrete facts of sensation, and, accordingly, possess the qualities of inferior differentiation, i.e. they are marked by a certain negativity, with infantile and archaic tendencies. The function most affected by the repression, is, naturally, the one standing opposite to sensation, viz. intuition, the function of unconscious perception.