[ENTP] So any other ENTPs get along with the SPs or feel more like them???

[Chilichimichanga]

I can get very well along with my ISFP and ESTP friends since we share the same sense of adventure and can also relate a lot to the ISTP and sometimes and think I could be one (probably my love for mechanical stuff). So any other ENTPs out there who can relate to this??? Just wondering (Yeah those mundane conversations about stuff like the weather do get boring though)

 

[chubber]

I don't get along with any Fi or Fe types. I always feel like I'm walking on eggshells around them.

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

Yes i get along with SP pretty well.

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

I don't get along with any Fi or Fe types. I always feel like I'm walking on eggshells around them.

That's actually true.. It's like I should always be cautious with what i am about to say because they will get hurt.

 

[Lord Lavender]

I find SP types to be kinda like the weird parallel version of NP types. Both SPs and NPs are random and spontaneous but SPs are more spontaneous in a real world kinda way like "OMG lets try this new food, oh wait a min lets try this sport, wait a min lets try this new cafe, hey look at that book shop over there cool stoires there, Hey a skyscraper would look good over there, What if we could make a new paint from mixing existing paints" so in other worlds a more down to earth randomness based on the real world while NPs are more random in a abstract way like "Hey what if we combined the plots of Mice of Men and 1984, Hmm what if Europe look like if it was 1400 miles further south, Hey I think the root cause of pork being not allowed in Islam was that pigs were precious animals for the elite in Islamic society, What if we could build a water vapor sucker that would suck clouds".

On a notice NP and SP randomness is not random at all if you look closer. Its very orderly actually due to Ji and has good logic and basic behind it. I think if you see someone acting stupid or using Se or Ne for humor then they are probably a NJ playing with Se or a SJ playing with Ne since to them its more a toy than a way of living. Think of it this way walking is just something you do naturally and you dont fool around with it while if a fish were to grow legs hed probably have a fun time but not be that good at it.

 

[Dreamer]

That's actually true.. It's like I should always be cautious with what i am about to say because they will get hurt.

Really, just tell them where you're coming from, what your intent is behind your words. Behind the logic, there is an intent, and that intent is where the feefees lie, waiting to kidnap you in their getaway van... Can I actually be a T type now?
There is always the issue of taking to emotionally unstable F types though, that's not fun for anyone.

 

[kotoshinohaisha]

Really, just tell them where you're coming from, what your intent is behind your words. Behind the logic, there is an intent, and that intent is where the feefees lie, waiting to kidnap you in their getaway van... Can I actually be a T type now?
There is always the issue of taking to emotionally unstable F types though, that's not fun for anyone.

Yeah. The intent. but F types are one of the most wonderful people as well. But by being the most, they can also became the least if doesn't handle properly

 

[Coriolis]

Really, just tell them where you're coming from, what your intent is behind your words. Behind the logic, there is an intent, and that intent is where the feefees lie, waiting to kidnap you in their getaway van... Can I actually be a T type now?

Sure - and then they will discount your explanation because they think they know better. They think they can get a more accurate answer by reading the tea leaves of what people refer to, with an excess of optimism and poetic license, as "nonverbal cues".

Saints preserve us.

(Why are you still wishing you could be T? Is life as an ENFP that bad?)

 

[Dreamer]

Sure - and then they will discount your explanation because they think they know better. They think they can get a more accurate answer by reading the tea leaves of what people refer to, with an excess of optimism and poetic license, as "nonverbal cues".

Saints preserve us.

(Why are you still wishing you could be T? Is life as an ENFP that bad?)

I suppose I should've clarified, but let's just throw out T vs F for a sec, people have different ways to express affection towards one another...ok, not sure why my mind took the topic to this area, but eh, I'll continue, and some people show their affection through hugs and kisses, some through poetry, and some through action, or some through whatever other means. Growing up, my mom and dad used to irritate me because they would do so much for me, it at times felt like they were suffocating me and not allowing me the space I wanted. Looking back, I realize they were showing their love for me by helping keep my life in order and from going too much awry (with ADHD, all it takes is one misstep for your world to crumble down, forcing you to have to rebuild over and over). Over time, I learned to appreciate what they did for me, and that perspective shift came from understanding where they were coming from, and figuring out their particular ways to show me they cared and loved me.

Now, just between friends, or coworkers, or classmates, etc, I find it very helpful when a person tells me their objective behind their questioning or some comment they make, rather than making some direct comment towards me and leaving it at that. At that point, I'm left to my own devices to try and figure out what it is they actually want. Though, to be fair, this is mostly because I do this myself, or, used to. I have all these thoughts and ideas swimming around my mind about people, and if something is left out, I'll ask a question, that, to them seems completely out of the blue. Usually the question I ask has nothing to do with what I asked about, but it's how they answered, is what will fill in the blanks for me of them. So, when other people ask a question, I'm seeking that context behind the surface.

Most the time, I don't feel like I need to be coddled or my emotions will bruise easily, if anything I fear I've hurt someone else.

Why do I keep insisting I wish I were a T type? For perspective It'd be so interesting to flip my F and T preferences around to see the world through their eyes for a change. There's also something so alluring about the idea of basing decisions on logic, it just seems so cut and dry. Filtering thoughts through an emotion filter leaves you with so many grey tones it can be hard to know immediately whether you should do A or B.

 

[Coriolis]

I suppose I should've clarified, but let's just throw out T vs F for a sec, people have different ways to express affection towards one another...ok, not sure why my mind took the topic to this area, but eh, I'll continue, and some people show their affection through hugs and kisses, some through poetry, and some through action, or some through whatever other means. Growing up, my mom and dad used to irritate me because they would do so much for me, it at times felt like they were suffocating me and not allowing me the space I wanted. Looking back, I realize they were showing their love for me by helping keep my life in order and from going too much awry (with ADHD, all it takes is one misstep for your world to crumble down, forcing you to have to rebuild over and over). Over time, I learned to appreciate what they did for me, and that perspective shift came from understanding where they were coming from, and figuring out their particular ways to show me they cared and loved me.

I don't know why your mind went there either, but I can see where that would have felt stifling. Perhaps you were trying to illustrate the idea that, once aware of your parents motivations, you were able to see things from their perspective better and understand why they acted as they did. I suppose I sometimes considered my parents overprotective, but for the most part, I was left to manage myself.

Now, just between friends, or coworkers, or classmates, etc, I find it very helpful when a person tells me their objective behind their questioning or some comment they make, rather than making some direct comment towards me and leaving it at that.

I have no problem explaining my motivations in such cases, but if they are second-guessed rather than accepted, I find it very aggravating and even disrespectful, and will be less inclined to share the next time.

Why do I keep insisting I wish I were a T type? For perspective It'd be so interesting to flip my F and T preferences around to see the world through their eyes for a change. There's also something so alluring about the idea of basing decisions on logic, it just seems so cut and dry. Filtering thoughts through an emotion filter leaves you with so many grey tones it can be hard to know immediately whether you should do A or B.

I suppose it would be interesting to experience that perspective, but I must admit I have never had any great desire to be a different type. In any case, you can base your decisions on logic. I believe we discussed some methods on chat at one point. It may take more work at first as you are less used to doing this because your preferences didn't lead you to prioritize it from early on, but it is absolutely a learned skill, and can be developed and applied by anyone.

 

[Luigi]

I don't get along with any Fi or Fe types. I always feel like I'm walking on eggshells around them.

But you're an Fi type

 

[Luigi]

I'm still waiting to meet an STP that's willing to talk theory with an open mind. So far all the one's I've met don't think about anything that isn't tangible, yeah gets pretty boring pretty fast.
On the other hand, I've met some ISFPs that are much more imaginative and therefore much more fun to have a conversation with.

 

[chubber]

But you're an Fi type

That's now how it works.

 

[Luigi]

That's now how it works.

How does it work?

 

[chubber]

How does it work?

Quote from the book How everyday stress brings out our hidden personality by Noami L. Quenk, Page 76

ESTJs and ENTJs report being quite uncomfortable with their own and others’ Feeling judgement, “It seems mushy and chaotic and scary, not crisp and precise like thinking,” said one ENTJ. An ESTJ described her uneasiness about expressing appreciation of complimenting others verbally: “I never know how much is appropriate. It always feels gushy.” She found writing thank-you notes to be much more satisfying both personally and to the recipients, who recognised the genuine depth of her feelings.

Because their opposites, Introverted Feeling types, are so hard to “read,” Extraverted Thinking types may judge Extraverted Feeling types, who readily express their dominant Feeling, more harshly than they do Introverted Feeling types. Introverted Feeling types are more muted in their expression of Feeling. ESTJs and ENTJs tend to see people who readily express Feeling as excessive, phony, and manipulative. When they are around an Introverted Feeling type, they may feel off-balance, needing to “walk on eggshells,” and afraid of being misunderstood or of unintentionally offending the person. But more often they may ignore Introverted Feeling types because they don’t express themselves directly. As we will see, the sensitivities of Extraverted Thinking types toward both of the dominant Feeling types (Extraverted Feeling types and Introverted Feeling types) are reflected in the expression of their own inferior Feeling.

 

[Luigi]

Quote from the book How everyday stress brings out our hidden personality by Noami L. Quenk, Page 76

Wow, now I'm really wondering if I'm an ENFP. What's the difference between ENTP and ENFP anyway?

 

[chubber]

Wow, now I'm really wondering if I'm an ENFP. What's the difference between ENTP and ENFP anyway?

The partner in this scenario is INFJ.

• It's not uncommon for you to believe you have all the important angles covered. the rest you tend to rationalize away as being of little consequence. The only problem is that sometimes those inconsequential matters are of great importance to others, your partner included. Clear, analytical thinking my cut through a lot of chaff and take you straight to the point, but strangely enough it doesn't always mean a lot to those who are close enough to you to need to have their feelings validated withing your ideas. You know you are not trying to stomp on anyone's feelings and it isn't your desire to make them feel bad or unimportant; you are just trying to take them along with you. Unfortunately the facts and the logic are often not enough for some people; feeling right is more important to them than knowing they are. Its an odd thing, but some people need to feel valued just for who they are, far more than they need to feel that they following some clear, sensible path. You don't have to change into a "touchy-feely" person to deal with this. But you will have to stop and think about how you deal with others. Slow down a little and start including what is important to them in your dealings with them by acknowledging in your own words the cues they offer to their own feelings; particularly those things in each situation which seem to be most important to them. When they see that you are taking account of what they feel, they will flow far more readily with your ideas.
• Feeling is not the opposite of thinking. more often than not, feeling judgements suppor thinking judgements and vice versa - it is more the world of perception to which these judgements are applied which makes it often seem as if they are working at cross purposes. Your partner values their surroundings and the people within it in a very different to you. In a nutshell, your partner wants to bring their world into line with the possibilities they see withing themselves; possibilities they value through feelings, whilst you try to move within the world as it is, seeking ways in which you can, for yourself, make real the ideas you have about it. From your point of view, things have a value to thought, to ideas, to connections, and very often they are neither good nor bad, merely useful or not useful. this is where the greatest difference between you and your partner lies, for they value things far more by the specific quality of support they provide to their sense of self. When you skip over or deflate the value others see in things, values which to you often seem arbitrary and easily shifted, you unwittingly devalue the important of the person whose values they are. It takes some real listening and an understanding of what to look for to be able to support the values others see, whilst remaining able to move within the world in your own effective way. the best salesmen have this gift, whereby heir clients never feel afterwards that they have been "conned" into buying, but kindly supported into making the "right" choice.
• Extraverted intuition is a great gift, but many people cannot see the things it show to you, nor are they always able to see the value in the possibilities it opens, even when these things are shown to them. A lot of people invest their energy and feelings into creating a stable and satisfying world for themselves in which any uncertainty or need for change is carefully evaluated and dealt with in keeping with they over all vision. For them, the next step will always be about the enhancement and consolidation of what they have. they would never dream of wagering their life against an untried possibility, no matter how promising it might seem. people like your partner gain their fulfillment from and within this world of self; a world where their feelings are supported and lodged withing the things they gather to themselves. It is natural for you to see a thousand ways in which they might change or improve their lives, but your vision often excludes the most important thing: the quality of what they have, the quality of the moment and the joy they have in things being just as they are and in doing things just as they do. For yourself, the current situation is always a stepping stone to the next big thing in your life, and this is how it should be for you. But stepping stones need to rest on solid, stable ground. for your own life to move from one challenge to the next, even you need solid ground beneath your feet and a stable home in which to rest. your partner's world can be your stable home if you locate and respect the value it contains, rather than only seeing it for it lacks.
• Introverted intuitive people are an unusual bunch, for whilst concerned mostly with their inner world, they need the world outside them in which to lodge and validate the ideas and possibilities they find important to them. This often makes them extremely conservative people. If a thing is not broken, why fix it? they ask. If something is as nature intended it, then it is right they say. they are fare more concerned with finding the answers to "what is" in "what is" than looking for ways in which to make "what is" more useful or into something different. Conversely, you are quite able to see the mistakes this attitude can allow, for they will often accept the unacceptable and just deal with it as a part of life rather than seek ways in which it can be made right. This is particularly true for themselves, where they can put up with the most atrocious personal conditions provided they can continue to do what they need to do. Whilst often seeming to others to be deliberate, this is not pig headedness, but rather an inability to see any importance in dealing with the contingencies of their external, sensate world, including even their own health and fitness. This is one major area in which your own skills and focuses ideally support your partners attitudes, for you can see far more clearly than they in those areas in which they are failing or moving in the wrong direction to gain the best result. They are not likely, however, to respond positively to any outgoing "up and at 'em" attitude, but to a more careful and attentive rationalization of problems you see and the possibilities for their solution. Quite often the mere feeling that you value them enough to make such thoughts known to them is sufficient for them to take notice and respond positively.
• With such different ways of both approaching and dealing with the world, you and your partner need a significant amount of freedom from each other's demands to be able to be effective. For yourself, this means not being tied to times and places which limit your ability to achieve your goals, while for your partner is means not needing to be continuously up and about, doing tasks which keep them from their work and thoughts. your partner in particular needs :alone" time to be able to recharge the energy they use in dealing with the world, while you need to be out in the world to be able to gain the energy you need from it. With these differences it is necessary that you understand that your partner cannot always be there for you, just as you cannot always be there for them. Allowing them the space and time they need without losing connection with them is the need here. Be aware of the effects such separation has upon your own state of mind, and remember that you because your partner is not following you in everything does not mean they are not a part of it in their own way. Nor does it mean that they do things they are doing. If you are working toward something or merely trying to sort out the ways in which you combine your lives, make a point of discussing what each of you will bring to the table and how each of you can best achieve what is required. Agree to be different and put your contributions together.
• To your partner, perception means not only seeing what is possible, but also seeing what is for the best. Their perceptions are more about the way they are effected by the things and the possibilities they find within themselves for relationship with the world. They tend to judge these possibilities by their "rightness" or how they are valued by others. they are very careful and protective of their own ideas, which means they tend to be the same wit the people around them, often suggesting ways in which they might maintain a healthy and non abrasive connection to others and the environment. You like to go after whatever seems to hold the most promise, regardless of its measure in other people's eyes. The end result, the promised goal is what guides your own method of measuring things and often you can't see why other's should be so careful when it cuts them off from doing the most effective things. in rationalizing what we see as being for the best, however, we usually don't include effects that our own natural typology causes us to see as unimportant or irrelevant. Unfortunately, any damage to the statues quo or negative feelings resulting from your decisions will not only effect the lives of others, but will affect your life as well, whether you consider such things unimportant or not. If you simply ignore each other's attitudes here, there is no real partnership in action. Things can fall apart if we take no notice of each other's ways and fail to incorporate what they have learned into our own lives. In just the many ways that your energy and ideas might bring great benefit into your partner's life, so too can their understandings save you from making the wrong choices and going after things which will not ultimately bring value into your life.

 

[Forever_Jung]

Wow, now I'm really wondering if I'm an ENFP. What's the difference between ENTP and ENFP anyway?

I dunno, I keep seeing your posts around here, and have never once thought you sounded like an ENFP. Also, if you don't thank Mother Gaia at least once a day, you're automatically disqualified from identifying as an ENFP.

The difference between them though is NOT their inferior, but their middle two judging functions. ENTP's use Ti/Fe to support their Ne. ENFP's use Fi/Te. In my conversational experience:

ENTP's have a superficial charm (tert Fe) that softens their critical nature (Ti).

ENFP's have a superficial logic (tert Te) that toughens their idealistic nature (Fi).

Both qualities can be very convincing at first, but they can rarely stand up to much scrutiny.

Edited to add:

ENFP's are much more likely to assert their "authority" and expertise when pushed. My ENFP friend for instance, is pretty touchy about having her knowledge/intelligence questioned and can act cartoonishly ETJ when this happens. You would never hear an XNTP say in an argument: "I have a degree in such and such, so I know what I'm talking about!"

But if you tell an ENTP he is being a douchebag, he will usually insist he was just joking/he's your friend and try to convince you he's just a fuzzy little FJ who believes whatever you believe.

ENTP's are much more likely to pander to Fe values, try to be pleasant, and win you over to their side. ENFP's will pander to Te values and try to put on this big serious business face.

I would say it's the difference between technique/finesse (Ti-Fe), versus passion/force (Fi-Te).

 

[Luigi]

I dunno, I keep seeing your posts around here, and have never once thought you sounded like an ENFP. Also, if you don't thank Mother Gaia at least once a day, you're automatically disqualified from identifying as an ENFP.

The difference between them though is NOT their inferior, but their middle two judging functions. ENTP's use Ti/Fe to support their Ne. ENFP's use Fi/Te. In my conversational experience:

ENTP's have a superficial charm (tert Fe) that softens their critical nature (Ti).

ENFP's have a superficial logic (tert Te) that toughens their idealistic nature (Fi).

Both qualities can be very convincing at first, but they can rarely stand up to much scrutiny.

This is tough

I'm critical, but my logic sucks, because almost nobody ever agrees with me.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I'm still waiting to meet an STP that's willing to talk theory with an open mind.

Get one really baked on some dank bud first.