[SJ] SJ's - we love you!

[Frosty]

First of all, what point? And no, most likely not.


Wow, I'm being talked as if I'm a child. I'm out of this thread. This was a failed revival experiment.

I don't think this was failed at all. I didn't mean to talk to you as if you were a child, I am just calling it as I am seeing it- if I could do that entirely without any sort of accusation I would- but in this case it was impossible.

Leave or don't, but I don't think me or peacebaby were attempting to do anything so personally malicious as you seem to think.

To be fair though, you never explicitly claimed that this post was anything other than what it was.

 

[Evee]

SJs are cool when they're not trying to stifle me or trying to make me feel like I'm a weirdo for being creative and original.

Do NOT stifle me or try to make me feel like I don't belong.

 

[Frosty]

Then you haven't read all that much socionics. There is absolutely a hierarchy (one which makes MBTIs look weak/vague); Si valuers are at the bottom, with those leading, creative: Lowest of the low.




I suppose the question I have to ask is; doesn't it seem condescending? I mean am I not an arsehole for deeming to show you the slightest hint of grace? As though you're so small, dull, and insecure that generic praise would render a significant necessary cathartic boost? Or is it all just a social play; to prove that I'm not one of those dastardly sensor hating intuitives. Self serving aggrandisement placed on the façade of a misplaced sense of magnanimous superiority.Genuine question.

[SUB]PS posting a meme of a crazy entp, at a crazy entp is probably getting too meta for a thread on SJs[/SUB]

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, because at this point I don't trust myself at all to tell. The last question is all I ask, and I am thinking that because of the nature of it there will not be an answer that I believe.

SJs are cool when they're not trying to stifle me or trying to make me feel like I'm a weirdo for being creative and original.

Do NOT stifle me or try to make me feel like I don't belong.

Again.



I like african americans just as long as they don't try to subject me to their african american values, they create great rap music though. But they are absolutely great in theory- right guys? Right?

 

[tinker683]

I suppose the question I have to ask is; doesn't it seem condescending?

Short answer: No, but that's just me. Partily I suppose it's because my self-esteem is sufficient to where I won't take offense if everyone says, "All SJ's are [insert derp comment]" as I realize that SJ's are an extremely broad and diverse group and that it's difficult to discuss interactings/encounters/personal experiences without some degree of stereotyping or thoroughly overreaching statements.

It's cool though, I understand everyone means well, even when they come off as a poop face

That we are also united only in our desire to subjugate the other types into the New World Order in service to The Man is something only discussed at meetings. And here, evidently

I mean am I not an arsehole for deeming to show you the slightest hint of grace? As though you're so small, dull, and insecure that generic praise would render a significant necessary cathartic boost?

To be fair, a cathartic boost goes excellent with my herbal tea at the end of the day.

More seriously though: I can understand why it might bother some people, but I've learned to realize that just because a lot of people are poo-pooing all over SJs doesn't necessarily mean they're talking about me. I also understand that some stereotypes are not entirely off the mark. Many of the negative proclivities I've heard people on this forum gripe about SJs I've identified in myself from time to time. It's no fun to see that in yourself, but I've found it to be a valuable learning experience.

Or is it all just a social play; to prove that I'm not one of those dastardly sensor hating intuitives. Self serving aggrandisement placed on the façade of a misplaced sense of magnanimous superiority.Genuine question.

Maybe, I don't know. Some SJs may feel that way when they read these kind of posts. I know I certainly don't. Truthfully I take it as a fluff piece, someone trying to brighten the place up, and I always appreciate anyone's positive energy. I'll leave it to them to comment.

[SUB]PS posting a meme of a crazy entp, at a crazy entp is probably getting too meta for a thread on SJs[/SUB]

 

[Evee]

I like african americans just as long as they don't try to subject me to their african american values, they create great rap music though. But they are absolutely great in theory- right guys? Right?

We are worlds apart.

 

[Frosty]

We are worlds apart.

Nothing against you. It is just that these half statements here are so widely accepted for SJ's as to remain unquestioned in their intent, yet maintain overwhemingly positive reception.


What really are statements like this, are they really more acceptable in comparison to others that are similar?

 

[Evee]

Nothing against you. It is just that these half statements here are so widely accepted for SJ's as to remain unquestioned in their intent, yet maintain overwhemingly positive reception.


What really are statements like this, are they really acceptable?

That is how I feel after growing up in a very SJ atmosphere.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Nothing against you. It is just that these half statements here are so widely accepted for SJ's as to remain unquestioned in their intent, yet maintain overwhemingly positive reception.

What really are statements like this, are they really more acceptable in comparison to others that are similar?

What is your preference then as to how this should be phrased?

 

[BadOctopus]

That is how I feel after growing up in a very SJ atmosphere.

I wish I'd grown up in an SJ atmosphere. My ENTJ dad was never around, and my crazy, flighty ENFP mom was really inconsistent in her parenting methods. Most of the time I felt like I was the mother and she was the child. Some stability would have been nice.

 

[Frosty]

That is how I feel after growing up in a very SJ atmosphere.

And I appreciate you for explicitly stating your feelings, but I see people liking stuff like this and then claiming to have no bias or ignoring any bias against SJ's, and it really just furthers the point that this and anything else more low level is perfectly fine, and will even be applauded- all while the idea of what is being done is rejected. As long as the tone isn't obviously negative- any other message is absolutely fine.

 

[PeaceBaby]

And I appreciate you for explicitly stating your feelings, but I see people liking stuff like this and then claiming to have no bias or ignoring any bias against SJ's, and it really just furthers the point that this and anything else more low level is perfectly fine, and will even be applauded- all while the idea of what is being done is rejected. As long as the tone isn't obviously negative- any other message is absolutely fine.

Are you aware of your own self-contradiction, here? Plus, I await your answer to my question above.

 

[Frosty]

No contradiction- statements like that are just extensions of the point I was making before.

His response to me is absolutely fine.

 

[Evee]

And I appreciate you for explicitly stating your feelings.

Thank you, Frosty.

 

[PeaceBaby]

No contradiction- statements like that are just extensions of the point I was making before.

His response to me is absolutely fine.

You miss my point. That's fine.

Let me say the question though in another way. How could someone express both appreciation and frustration in a way you would deem "better"? More authentic.

And do you think your point in this thread is revelatory?

 

[Frosty]

You miss my point. That's fine.

Let me say the question though in another way. How could someone express both appreciation and frustration in a way you would deem "better"? More authentic.

And do you think your point in this thread is revelatory?

I don't think I missed your point at all. Statements like the one Evee iriginally made imply an absolute truth- an objective stereotype- that if not questioned will continue to multiply itself. In his response to me he related his perceptions to his own subjective understanding.

Would you ever add a 'but' to an apology?

 

[BadOctopus]

And I appreciate you for explicitly stating your feelings, but I see people liking stuff like this and then claiming to have no bias or ignoring any bias against SJ's, and it really just furthers the point that this and anything else more low level is perfectly fine, and will even be applauded- all while the idea of what is being done is rejected. As long as the tone isn't obviously negative- any other message is absolutely fine.

I think I know what you mean. It annoys me when people make generalized statements about INTJs being boring, heartless bastards, and then seeing other people 'like' those posts. I imagine INFPs feel the same way when people talk about how oversensitive they are, and how everything makes them cry. It's all ignorant stereotyping, and unfortunately that's what humans do. (Because they suck.)

However, I really don't think that the people in this thread who were complimenting SJs were being condescending to them. Most were genuinely expressing their appreciation. If you feel that a compliment is like a demeaning pat on the head, I guess that's your prerogative. But ascribing bad motives to people who are being sincere isn't really fair to them, either.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I don't think I missed your point at all. Statements like the one Evee iriginally made imply an absolute truth- an objective stereotype- that if not questioned will continue to multiply itself. In his response to me he related his perceptions to his own subjective understanding.

Would you ever add a 'but' to an apology?

Not interested in your dance. Answer the questions please.

 

[miss fortune]

Yes off the forum it might be different, but off the forum everyone is on equal footing. Maybe it is the fault of the sensors for not being as frequent on the forum, I don't know.

hey, no blaming me... I have a shit ton of posts (I'm in the top 10! perhaps I need a trophy )

there is the funny aspect that, as much as a lot of the stereotypes that idiots throw around on the forum (i.e. SPs are dumb and crush beer cans on their skulls regularly, SJs are jackbooted fascists who think that there was nothing wrong with Stepford, NTs are set on building doomsday devices but their moms won't buy them the parts and NFs are ineffectual crybabies who think that pretty paintings can bring about world peace)... there are some commonalities between people of similar types though and that includes similarities between types in different categories, like ExTPs and IxFJs and such. I know that there is a good chance that if I read a post by several certain STPs I will probably agree and conclude that they said it better than I could and that I can go on endless tangents with ENTPs when the opportunity arises because both types love to play with ideas and tend to be rather playful. The man (who is probably a male esfj) and my mom (isfj) have quite a few preferences and quirks in common despite living very different lives and have, on a few horrible occasions, decided to gang up on me and tease me with their common assessments

but yeah, there are a lot of inaccurate stereotypes that people are always throwing at all of the types, and this site being N heavy the sensors end up getting more of it just because there are fewer of us to slap some sense into those throwing them around. the SJs that are in my life aren't opposed to things that are different or changes... they generally do have quite a few questions about why those things are happening or what drove someone to try whatever is in question, but I've come to understand that most of the time those questions are out of curiosity because perhaps a more efficient thing has been discovered and in that case they want to know all about it. and many times the questions are out of a desire to understand the person or the situation. I know that my enfp sis tends to take questions as criticism a lot of times because it's not how she communicates in those situations, but they aren't meant as criticism. in fact, my republican, church loving esfj grandmother LOVED some of the crazy hairstyles and colors that she's pulled off once she figured them out... she has a picture of them together when my sis had a particularly colorful hairstyle framed and hanging in a rather prominent location in her home

most of the clashes that people seem to have over this sort of stuff all boils down to nobody taking the time to figure out how others communicate and the differences and similarities that way

 

[Frosty]

Not interested in your dance. Answer the questions please.

I don't appreciate this. I messaged you that I would reply later and I will.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I don't appreciate this. I messaged you that I would reply later and I will.

I posted that before I received your rep.