[SJ] SJ's - we love you!

[Frosty]

Now come to think of it, I really admire any sensor on this forum because they appreciated a theory well enough to balance themselves and express themselves on here and see its own usefulness.

I'm sorry, I just have to reply to this.

This is like going up to an intuitive and patting them on the head because they were able to fill up their gas tank or blink and chew at the same time.

 

[prplchknz]

you know all the people i've ever gotten banned over or tried to get me banned have never been sjs, but nts,nfs,sp all have but sj's are terrible, ooookkk carry on. think all you want but i'm gonna like the type that doesn't think they're mystical and better than others while simutaneously getting others banned. sometimes i misunderstand some of the SJs , and i get mad at them from time to time. but i don't think i've ever had it so bad with them that i got banned cuz they were so convinced they were 'god's' butthole and needed to put me in my place. while i'm going no you're missing what i just said, but so convinced they're right and how could they be wrong. don't recall an SJ doing that here.

 

[Fun in the Sun]

Wow, this thread has gotten contentious. I don't know what the big deal is with SJs. I'm content to be ISFJ. For one, no one pays you any attention when you're one. I like that. Make a post with an MBTI of ISFJ and wait while no one cares. I know "guardian" gets a bad rap, but it is entirely misleading. I'm very in tune with my senses. Si is the basis for being a guardian because I love sensing what is familiar and comfortable. It makes me a homebody. I like routine. If anything, I guard my environment. I'm a very artistic, practical, sensual person. Nothing special.

When I read the socionics descriptions for SEI, I was like "yup, that's me." It's a much better description than the MBTI ISFJ. I don't like the thought that people view me as being a dutiful, dedicated worker bee. There is so much more to life than that!

 

[cascadeco]

I don't recall you being overly overjoyed when I suggested that you might be an ISFJ. Everyone pretends to be openly accepting of the equal value of all types, but at the end of the day no one wants to be an SJ. It is what it is. They distance themselves from the notion that they might be one by propogating these stereotypes, paying their dues by pretending to acknowledge the 'strengths' of these types, but doing so in a way that frequently is used as a way to contrast their self developed personas against those characteristics.

So I understand and can even agree, to a degree, with your pov, but, at the same time I can say that a few SJ's I know in fact *don't* take such descriptors as 'practical' and whatnot as a negative, in fact they take pride in it, and my ISTJ mom for example, when reading an INTJ profile, finds it unrelatable -- too head in the clouds and views N traits in the not-as-positive-way-as-N's-on-the-forum-might.

Just another take.

 

[cascadeco]

Now come to think of it, I really admire any sensor on this forum because they appreciated a theory well enough to balance themselves and express themselves on here and see its own usefulness.

Oh gosh... what have I done/said?

I don't know, but what does this even mean? lol Sensors don't 'balance themselves' any more than intuitives do, according to the theory we are all a single type as our baseline/preference, there's no conscious 'balancing' for some and not for others.

 

[cascadeco]

I mean, this being an N-heavy forum, and mbti being very much ego-based (we all tend to want to view our traits in a positive light, have less ability to view them in a neutral light), N traits are going to tend to have a positive spin to them, therefore the opposite will tend to have a negative spin -- at least historically, though I think it's gotten better. Just like if you were on an S-heavy forum, the N's would feel out of place and would feel they're viewed negatively. Ideal I guess would be a totally neutral forum, where no one felt any compulsion to 'be' someone else, everyone was treated as equally awesome.

 

[tinker683]

Hmm..

I'm of the following opinions regarding the following ideas floating around...

1) To the people who say they love them some SJs: We love you too, random citizen!

2) To the people who say nobody likes being an SJ: I suspect this is either because of a) We get the Space Grey secret decoder rings and the SPs get the Rose Gold or b) they have not been assimilated into the collective yet. It's fine, someone has to be Emmueal Goldstein, but they too, will soon learn to love the Party...

3) To the people who say there are a lot of rigid or unfair stereotypes about types on this forum: I would like to formally greet you to Planet Earth, where men stereotype all the time, women stereotype all the time, and children are FBI agents.

To those who will respond to me with anything other than entertaining banter, I will preemptively post this picture in response to you:

 

[Poki]

I mean, this being an N-heavy forum, and mbti being very much ego-based (we all tend to want to view our traits in a positive light, have less ability to view them in a neutral light), N traits are going to tend to have a positive spin to them, therefore the opposite will tend to have a negative spin -- at least historically, though I think it's gotten better. Just like if you were on an S-heavy forum, the N's would feel out of place and would feel they're viewed negatively. Ideal I guess would be a totally neutral forum, where no one felt any compulsion to 'be' someone else, everyone was treated as equally awesome.

This all starts from within a person, not from forum participation statistics.

 

[Riva]

This all starts from within a person, not from forum participation statistics.

Are you kidding me; @ the not forum part?

 

[Poki]

Are you kidding me; @ the not forum part?

Forum is made up of individual people, to get each person to recognize that all are equal just different will actually fix the issue, reorganizing forum participation is just a bandaid fix to the actual issue. Doing this has been proven to just cause clics because the actual issue is not fixed.

 

[MyCupOfTea]

I don't know to whom is the "we" in the topic of this thread referring to and I'm not sure if I want to be part of that group. But anyway, my point wasn't to start nitpicking. It's just that I have some amazing co-workers and friends who I look up to. I don't know their types but I like to think that they are SJ's because they fit my SJ profile. So beware, here's some serious stereotyping, which is actually being serious:

At work, they are the ones who know what to say or do in the moment at hand. They are on top of things and thus are usually the ones who know the best and are the most respected members in the workplace. They have quick and sharp minds and can see the obvious in no time. They know how to prioritize and have seldom problems with deadlines. They are innovative and always have exiting, useful ideas.

In spare time, they are amazing partners, parents and friends. You can count on them anytime. The advice they give you is priceless because they are clever thinkers who can spot the problem and know how to deal with it. They have great sense of humor and are pretty witty. Everybody wants to be friends with them, and no wonder they are so popular!

 

[Frosty]

So I understand and can even agree, to a degree, with your pov, but, at the same time I can say that a few SJ's I know in fact *don't* take such descriptors as 'practical' and whatnot as a negative, in fact they take pride in it, and my ISTJ mom for example, when reading an INTJ profile, finds it unrelatable -- too head in the clouds and views N traits in the not-as-positive-way-as-N's-on-the-forum-might.

Just another take.

Yes off the forum it might be different, but off the forum everyone is on equal footing. Maybe it is the fault of the sensors for not being as frequent on the forum, I don't know.

But because there are so many N's, or people claiming to be N's- it seems like it has become way too easy for treatment of S's to devolve into one huge vent session- with no one really even bothing to try and understand those they are venting about. It is like gossiping about a friend as soon as they leave the room and then complimenting her shoes when she comes back so you don't have to feel bad. Sure the friend might feel good about the compliment- but In the grand scheme it is just hides true sentiment while saving face.

I have a couple of things to think about. If SJ's claim that they are alright with the disproportionate amount of passive aggressive dislike/ 'unfair stereotypes' they recieve- then I don't really know what to say. I suppose more power to them.

Now come to think of it, I really admire any sensor on this forum because they appreciated a theory well enough to balance themselves and express themselves on here and see its own usefulness.

Oh gosh... what have I done/said?

But this is exactly what I am talking about made obvious.

 

[PeaceBaby]

When they have created those identities- and at this point I am only talking about a subsection... Possibly- they look to differentiate themselves. And the easiest way to do so, the best way to do so if you are to develop yourself as unique- is to latch onto a stereotype and then just reject it- yet compliment to cover. And while not everyone did so- and in all the thread was fine... Maybe, it just really highlights that- and I really think what I mentioned did happen. There are people who are sincere, but it becomes dangerous because of the people who are persoanlly motivated.

While I understand the point you are trying to make I find myself coming to the end of your post and saying, "So what?" I've seen this kind of pejorative happen in a variety of circumstances, not limited to one type of bias. It's insightful of you to pick up on it but its hardly surprising.

You realize that you read SJ descriptors and find them negative because they are your shadow? When I read an SJ description to my husband, he does find it a bit lacking in spaces, but the words dutiful, responsible, organized, security, tradition ... these aren't shameful words to SJs. They are words to take pride in and live up to. Through the lens of the shadow is where they take on a more 2-dimensional bent.

 

[PeaceBaby]

But this is exactly what I am talking about made obvious.

[MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION] is being deliberately facetious to help make your point.

 

[Frosty]

[MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION] is being deliberately facetious to help make your point.

No he wasn't. He didn't add that end note until after I quoted him and whatever called him out. Though he might claim to have been now, I don't know.

And even if that were the case, isn't the fact that a statement like that immediately comes to mind, that that is what is said- isn't that concerning?

 

[Forever]

[MENTION=19719]Forever[/MENTION] is being deliberately facetious to help make your point.

First of all, what point? And no, most likely not.

No he wasn't. He didn't add that end note until after I quoted him and whatever called him out. Though he might claim to have been now, I don't know.

And even if that were the case, isn't the fact that a statement like that immediately comes to mind, that that is what is said- isn't that concerning?

Wow, I'm being talked as if I'm a child. I'm out of this thread. This was a failed revival experiment.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I'm out of this thread.

Why? You don't like your game being played back?

 

[Dr Mobius]

Thanks for saying this. Though I think the SJ stereotypes are only based off MBTI and Keirsey. Socionics seems to be relatively free of bias towards them.

Then you haven't read all that much socionics. There is absolutely a hierarchy (one which makes MBTIs look weak/vague); Si valuers are at the bottom, with those leading, creative: Lowest of the low.

Hmm..

I'm of the following opinions regarding the following ideas floating around...

1) To the people who say they love them some SJs: We love you too, random citizen! View attachment 14553

2) To the people who say nobody likes being an SJ: I suspect this is either because of a) We get the Space Grey secret decoder rings and the SPs get the Rose Gold or b) they have not been assimilated into the collective yet. It's fine, someone has to be Emmueal Goldstein, but they too, will soon learn to love the Party...

I suppose the question I have to ask is; doesn't it seem condescending? I mean am I not an arsehole for deeming to show you the slightest hint of grace? As though you're so small, dull, and insecure that generic praise would render a significant necessary cathartic boost? Or is it all just a social play; to prove that I'm not one of those dastardly sensor hating intuitives. Self serving aggrandisement placed on the façade of a misplaced sense of magnanimous superiority.Genuine question.

[SUB]PS posting a meme of a crazy entp, at a crazy entp is probably getting too meta for a thread on SJs[/SUB]

 

[Forever]

Why? You don't like your game being played back?

My intention wasn't to start a fight here in the first place, I'm removing my "evil" intended posts. I revived this thread because I thought SJ's could have some love. Apparently, somehow responding to the hate in a defensive manner has gotten you the OP to go against me. So leave me be please.

 

[PeaceBaby]

My intention wasn't to start a fight here in the first place, I'm removing my "evil" intended posts. I revived this thread because I thought SJ's could have some love. Apparently, somehow responding to the hate in a defensive manner has gotten you the OP to go against me. So leave me be please.

I haven't gone against you, I'm interested to understand your perspective. In fact, I've given you the floor and the benefit of the doubt.