SJ? Either way DON'T DO IT!!

[JivinJeffJones]

You mean "Amen" surely?

No.

*points to surname*

 

[Xander]

No.
I am not going to attend your wedding.

Thank you for the invitation all the same.

Tell that to the two 300lbs apes I sent to go fetch you

If I say jump your supposed to say "how high" and not "off which cliff"!!

 

[Xander]

No.

*points to surname*

You're "one of them"???

Arrrrggghhh!!!!

I just thought you were A Jones. Not THE Jones.

So was the guy with the two swords a one off or is that a regular thing?

 

[The_Liquid_Laser]

I'm Ni-Fe :hi: Doesn't sound like me as far as i know. Ni-Fe in my experience creates a very fluid approach to emotion that is in constant flux. It is as unlike Si-Fe as just about anything I know. But people consistently impose every single Si-Fe concept as being consistent with Ni-Fe. Oh well. People perceive as they will.

edit: Ni-Fe is also extremely rare (infj's as less than 1% of the population) while Si-Fe is possibly the most common. This is a likely reason for the confusion./edit

Also Ni-Fe can look a lot like Si-Fe to an outside observer. Just like myself Ne-Ti can look a lot like Se-Ti outwardly. Only Ni-Fe appears even more so like Si-Fe because the Ni or Si is introverted and therefore hidden from casual observation.

You seem to be speaking more about the inward experience, which I agree that inwardly Ni-Fe is very different than Si-Fe. I'm married to an INFJ, so I'm well aware of the differences. But that Fe is still there. That desire for a shared experience is quite present, but it manifests itself in both conventional and unconventional ways.

 

[heart]

Elopement can be very romantic!

Just don't tell anyone...or they will come anyway.

 

[Xander]

Elopement can be very romantic!

Just don't tell anyone...or they will come anyway.

Oh I agree. Unfortunately there's a few too many people involved to allow for cutting them out of ""our" special day" without backlash.

 

[FDG]

Don't make the mistake of referencing those traits to SJs, and by this token keeping on typing SJ's only after observation of said traits. There are many SJs that do not match the stereotype - and by many, I mean not just statistically significant, but an amount capable to shake the mean.

This said, marriages are a good source of post-marriage dinners - don't complain.

 

[Xander]

Don't make the mistake of referencing those traits to SJs, and by this token keeping on typing SJ's only after observation of said traits. There are many SJs that do not match the stereotype - and by many, I mean not just statistically significant, but an amount capable to shake the mean.

This said, marriages are a good source of post-marriage dinners - don't complain.

I dislike eating out anyway so that's not much comfort I'm afraid.

The "SJ?" in the title was serving two purposes. Firstly it stops the glib answer of "well you're an NP so of course you object" and secondly the traits mentioned are more prone to be present in SJs than NPs. As all MBTI is preference I mentioned it as such.

It IS a mistake to believe the stereotype to be representative in detail of everyone but it is also a mistake to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because people often fail to use the stereotypes well does not mean that we shouldn't use them.

 

[FDG]

I dislike eating out anyway so that's not much comfort I'm afraid.

The "SJ?" in the title was serving two purposes. Firstly it stops the glib answer of "well you're an NP so of course you object" and secondly the traits mentioned are more prone to be present in SJs than NPs. As all MBTI is preference I mentioned it as such.

It IS a mistake to believe the stereotype to be representative in detail of everyone but it is also a mistake to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because people often fail to use the stereotypes well does not mean that we shouldn't use them.

I find stereotypes useless, as I said, when they start to become a part of a self-fulfilling prophecy cycle that makes us identify a given segment of the population that displays traits contrary to ours with the logic contradiction of our own personality. This ain't necessarily so - or, better, it might be so, but there is no strict relation to MBTI terms. SJs that are neither in favour nor against marriage are plentiful, but they might be identified by you as NJs or SPs due to your categorization, even if the functional ordering they display is pertaining to the SJ category.

I also think you should start appreciating the finer things in life - the simples, finer things in life such as eating out. Maybe you'll start being less bitchy this way.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

i think they follow it because they like it and prefer it.

This was the most profound and intricate thought I am yet to entertain..

 

[heart]

SJs that are neither in favour nor against marriage are plentiful, but they might be identified by you as NJs or SPs due to your categorization, even if the functional ordering they display is pertaining to the SJ category.

I thought this discussion was about THE WEDDING ritual and not marriage itself.

 

[Xander]

I find stereotypes useless, as I said, when they start to become a part of a self-fulfilling prophecy cycle that makes us identify a given segment of the population that displays traits contrary to ours with the logic contradiction of our own personality. This ain't necessarily so - or, better, it might be so, but there is no strict relation to MBTI terms. SJs that are neither in favour nor against marriage are plentiful, but they might be identified by you as NJs or SPs due to your categorization, even if the functional ordering they display is pertaining to the SJ category.

I think what you are identifying is the misuse of stereotypes. Without stereotypes there would be no language nor communication for we would lack the common ground necessary for such things. Is not a mental picture of an orange a stereotype? Of course it is and it may well bear no resemblance to the orange in front of us in detail but it is the overall which matches and so we call it an orange and others know what we mean.

I also think you should start appreciating the finer things in life - the simples, finer things in life such as eating out. Maybe you'll start being less bitchy this way.

A teacher once told me that "nice" was no way to describe food as it is an expression of opinion and is not helpfully descriptive to others who may have different tastes. I'd say that your description of "the finer things" comes under that banner.

I find that eating out is another social gathering and I personally prefer my gatherings to be held in private and not in public. I do like some fancy foods and am not limited to frozen pizza but this is irrelevant in terms of whether or not I enjoy eating out. If I liked screaming kids or benign conversation then I would suit it better but that too is irrelevant as I do not.

I do not hold any grudge against those who eat out. I do not deride them (usually) and I expect the same courtesy in return when they get the urge to call me boring or unadventurous.

Each to their own.

My finer things in life would be more based on one to one conversations. Quiet and impromptu meals with friends mostly on a road trip having stopped at a petrol station for whatever they had on offer, eating by the side of the road whilst discussing something engaging. To ritualise it and sit at tables and order from menus which are prescribed and homogenised does not appeal to me at all.

 

[Xander]

I thought this discussion was about THE WEDDING ritual and not marriage itself.

True. I have said it before that I have no objection to getting married but I harbour deep resentment to many of the "oh you HAVE to"s about the wedding.

 

[ptgatsby]

True. I have said it before that I have no objection to getting married but I harbour deep resentment to many of the "oh you HAVE to"s about the wedding.

I feel your pain. Oh yes.

 

[Ivy]

My sister's getting married next May. I once thought she was an ESFJ, but I'm now doubting that in part due to how she's going about planning her wedding. Our aunts (especially one in particular who is SJ to the core) are telling her "Of course you'll have a" receiving line/father-daughter dance/whatever else happens in a by-the-books wedding. But she wants none of that. She wants to rent a big cabin in the Appalachians and invite only the immediate family (in part because her fiance is from India and he won't be able to bring his extended family over) and have a Justice of the Peace marry them in the cabin. Then have a giant party for everybody at a later date. She wants to wear a sari, pending approval from his parents that it won't violate any of their traditions, so no white dress/veil for her.

Gotta be SP right?

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

I don't understand a lot of the angst over this topic. Sure, lots of people's mothers would like them to have the traditional wedding with the usual bells and whistles. But it's the couple's day, and if I'm invited to a wedding where the bride and groom want to wear barrels and get married by a billy goat, then I'll toast the billy goat with a smile.

By the same token, if they want a three tiered cake, a white dress, and "Here Comes The Bride" on the organ, I'll celebrate that, too. Just because something is the most preferred, comfortable option doesn't make it inherently bad. It doesn't mean people are mindless unthinking skin bags. It just means that for whatever reason (and the reason is irrelevant) that's what's going to make their day special and meaningful to them. And any guests worth inviting will defer.

 

[Ivy]

I don't understand a lot of the angst over this topic. Sure, lots of people's mothers would like them to have the traditional wedding with the usual bells and whistles. But it's the couple's day, and if I'm invited to a wedding where the bride and groom want to wear barrels and get married by a billy goat, then I'll toast the billy goat with a smile.

By the same token, if they want a three tiered cake, a white dress, and "Here Comes The Bride" on the organ, I'll celebrate that, too. Just because something is the most preferred, comfortable option doesn't make it inherently bad. It doesn't mean people are mindless unthinking skin bags. It just means that for whatever reason (and the reason is irrelevant) that's what's going to make their day special and meaningful to them. And any guests worth inviting will defer.

*applause!* Very well said!

We just (well, in May) attended our cousin's wedding, which was a "by the books" wedding through and through. It was fantastic and we all had a great time at the reception. Of course I cried at the wedding. Choosing something besides that isn't necessarily a rejection of that.

 

[FDG]

I don't understand a lot of the angst over this topic. Sure, lots of people's mothers would like them to have the traditional wedding with the usual bells and whistles. But it's the couple's day, and if I'm invited to a wedding where the bride and groom want to wear barrels and get married by a billy goat, then I'll toast the billy goat with a smile.

By the same token, if they want a three tiered cake, a white dress, and "Here Comes The Bride" on the organ, I'll celebrate that, too. Just because something is the most preferred, comfortable option doesn't make it inherently bad. It doesn't mean people are mindless unthinking skin bags. It just means that for whatever reason (and the reason is irrelevant) that's what's going to make their day special and meaningful to them. And any guests worth inviting will defer.

I agree completely! After all, it's just a day, not your whole life.

 

[ptgatsby]

I agree completely! After all, it's just a day, not your whole life.

I should point out that it is for your whole life, in theory.

In any case, the reason it happens is because the of the lifetime of conditioning that "this day defines you" as a woman, left over from the times when it really was about buying a woman, which was arranged based upon the class/wealth/etc of the two families. This mindset continues on and it does differ from culture to culture. Almost all cultures that have pair bonding social rituals make this day "important" because it acts as a cornerstone of starting a family, or a transference of family (ie: in many Asian cultures, the woman is taken from her family and becomes a part of his family, in which the obediance to the mother/new mother is expected.)

It naturally follows that women, in particular, are easily conditioned to be all focused on this one day - especially as a child. Historically, their worth was defined this way. You don't break that social conditioning easily... IOW, it's not just another day... just as we are conditioned for our birthdays and particular birthdays (30 for women, 40 for men, for example.)

 

[Varelse]

In any case, the reason it happens is because the of the lifetime of conditioning that "this day defines you" as a woman, left over from the times when it really was about buying a woman, which was arranged based upon the class/wealth/etc of the two families.

:steam: There's no way that I'd trust my parents to make that decision.