Serious Head Fix Doubts

[Saturnal Snowqueen]

Hi guys! I know I've pegged myself as having a 7 head fix for a while. But I'm having my doubts. My 6 and 7 feel so balanced. So I'm wondering, unless I keep disintegrating or if my wing's really strong, if I have a 6 fix. Been talking to some Discord pals and they lean towards 6. Now I want to hear from you!

You see, I pegged myself as having a 7 for a while because I really like exploring new places, eating foreign and spicy foods, riding scary rides. I am pretty energetic/get restless-I keep bouncing around even when feeling sleepy. I get depressed when stuck in ruts and loathe most routine. I am quite playful once you get to know me, I like to keep things light.

But! I see so much 6 influence in me too. I've always been very indecisive, although I can feel like that 6, 7, and 9 can all experience this. But yeah, I keep turning to others in times of decision making-I need that support system. I'm full of self-doubt. Despite me liking variety in terms of experiences, change really throws me off. Maybe it's the nine fear of loss instead, but yeah, I'm admittedly clingy in relationships, get nervous to leave places just because I'm used to them, that stuff. Also, I have a weird relationship with trust. Like my nine makes me go-with-the flow and at times almost too trusting of friends. But I also find myself feeling full of distrust. I worry a lot about people being disloyal, and I hear loyalty is a big value of sixes. Therefore, it can take me a long time to make friends. Also, it's like, I keep an optimistic front, I have this "What the hey?" optimism about me. But, I often have the worst case scenario in the back of my head. I'm often private with my feelings and find myself distrusting of authority.

So, what are you guy's opinions? Definitely throw me some questions.

 

[Tomb1]

Doubt, support-seeking, and over-trusting are underlying traits of the nine character type. It all ties into the core area of fixation: merging. Being super loyal to a cause/person is a strategy the nine (moreso 9w1) employs to avoid the core vulnerability. So what you're describing is still all related to type Nine (9).

As a good rule of thumb, enneagram types are not fix points. The enneagram types presents distinct personality types. Each personality is like a system in and of itself, runs on a specific logic, and shows up in your gut, head and heart....The idea that you have three distinct personality types running inside you gets into multiple personality disorder. In reality, a type nine's gut, head and heart all responds consistently to the worldview, motivation, area of fixation, vulnerabilities etc solely of type nine.

 

[Earl Grey]

Doubt, support-seeking, over-trusting, and giving loyalty to a cause are underlying traits of the nine character type. It all ties into the core area of fixation: merging. So what you're describing is still all related to type Nine (9).

Are you sure? That sounds classical E6, especially the support-seeking and giving loyalty to a cause. E9 seeks belonging in a sense, but E6 seeks a more active cause to belong to and champion. E9, and the E9s I know have been more on the aloof, mediating side, and when unhealthy would become more disconnected and 'self-numbing', while an unhealthy E6 clings onto their fear and might react more, not letting go of the issue until it is resolved instead.

@robobot14, what do you think?

 

[Tomb1]

Are you sure? That sounds classical E6, especially the support-seeking and giving loyalty to a cause. E9 seeks belonging in a sense, but E6 seeks a more active cause to belong to and champio

Positive. Self-protection, exculpation of guilt onto others, and projection of hostility are underlying traits/mechanics of the six character type.

Classical E6 comes from Naranjo. Naranjo does not attribute support-seeking and giving loyalty to E6 but to E9.

 

[Earl Grey]

Positive. Self-protection, exculpation of guilt onto others, and projection of hostility are underlying traits/mechanics of the six character type.

Classical E6 comes from Naranjo. Naranjo does not attribute support-seeking and giving loyalty to E6.

Might want to go into the why as well, because support-seeking and giving loyalty (as behavioural traits) isn't exclusive to E9.

 

[Saturnal Snowqueen]

Are you sure? That sounds classical E6, especially the support-seeking and giving loyalty to a cause. E9 seeks belonging in a sense, but E6 seeks a more active cause to belong to and champion. E9, and the E9s I know have been more on the aloof, mediating side, and when unhealthy would become more disconnected and 'self-numbing', while an unhealthy E6 clings onto their fear and might react more, not letting go of the issue until it is resolved instead.

@robobot14, what do you think?

Yeah, I've heard that stuff could be nine too. It makes sense with the urge to merge and lack of identity. I didn't think of myself really having loyalty to causes, if I know what you mean, I'm mostly chill about that stuff. The mediating fits me a lot. Loyalty to me is more about a person actually being loyal to me, and I get wary and uncomfortable if I don't feel like they're being loyal. That's where I need the support system. Yeah, I mostly just self numb. If I cling onto a fear, it's more because I'm replaying a scenario over and over in my head.

 

[Earl Grey]

Yeah, I've heard that stuff could be nine too. It makes sense with the urge to merge and lack of identity. I didn't think of myself really having loyalty to causes, if I know what you mean, I'm mostly chill about that stuff. The mediating fits me a lot. Loyalty to me is more about a person actually being loyal to me, and I get wary and uncomfortable if I don't feel like they're being loyal. That's where I need the support system. Yeah, I mostly just self numb. If I cling onto a fear, it's more because I'm replaying a scenario over and over in my head.

Why do you need them to be loyal to you? What does their loyalty accomplish?

 

[Saturnal Snowqueen]

Their loyalty help me sure that I can trust them. That they actually want me and aren't playing with me or are being flaky.

 

[Earl Grey]

Their loyalty help me sure that I can trust them. That they actually want me and aren't playing with me or are being flaky.

(bolded struck me as a general sx sentiment, but not necessarily)
How much would you say this is a focus in your life? How much do you need to have people you can trust, and why? What do you need to be able to trust them with?

 

[Saturnal Snowqueen]

(bolded struck me as a general sx sentiment, but not necessarily)
How much would you say this is a focus in your life? How much do you need to have people you can trust, and why? What do you need to be able to trust them with?

Oh? Might be SX but that came out low on the last test I took.

Eh somewhat prominent. I wonder if this is secretly an introversion thing, but like, with friends, if you aren't..steady..then I can't quite tell if you want me or not. I'm not always confiding in people, I can be pretty private with that stuff. I think loyalty mostly has to due with steadiness if you know what I mean. I'm the ultimate third wheel.

 

[Tomb1]

Might want to go into the why as well, because support-seeking and giving loyalty (as behavioural traits) isn't exclusive to E9.

Support-seeking and reflexive loyalty as a core action set/built-in disposition is exclusive to type 9. The why pertains to the inner logic of the E9 character type.

Other types may demonstrate overlapping behavior but for them its just peripheral....not a core action set.

Obviously you're not learned about Classical E6 otherwise you never would have claimed/suggested that support seeking and reflexive loyalty sounds like classical E6.

 

[Earl Grey]

Support-seeking and reflexive loyalty as a core action set/built-in disposition is exclusive to type 9. The why pertains to the inner logic of the E9 character type.

Other types may demonstrate overlapping behavior but for them its just peripheral....not a core action set.

Obviously you're not learned about Classical E6 otherwise you never would have claimed/suggested that support seeking and reflexive loyalty sounds like classical E6.

What are the distinctions between E6 and E9 then, to your knowledge? Why are those the 'core action sets' of type 9, and how does it tie into robobot14? Reading her OP sounded like attachment triad, specifically 6 and 9 to me.

 

[Mind Maverick]

First, I very strongly disagree with Tomb1.

Seeking "belonging" pertains more to Soc IV than E9, for one. Sx 9 merging, in contrast, is something that happens unconsciously and automatically. It is the mirroring of traits, the conformity to preferences that are not their own. It's after the stability and security of the relationship as opposed to stability in the decisions in their lives that you find in E6.

Furthermore, E9 does not actually have a desire to blend, and in fact that "blending" is what makes them angry underneath the surface; it's more like "I can't say no and thus I blend, but I get angry with myself or others about it." One E9 musician worded it well: "You don't ever listen, but I'm the one ignoring me." It's rooted in a lack of assertiveness instead.

Tom Condon has a video in which he interviews an Sx E9 who shares that his merging experiences, and in it the 9 states that in order to regain a sense of "self" he had to physically separate himself from the person(s) he had unintentionally / unconsciously merged with. Similarly, in my own expeirences as someone who is entirely settled on the fact that I'm a 9 with Sx either dom or mid, I resided in an entirely different state in order to "find myself" after I realized I'd been merging with my father and brother so much throughout my life that I had no clue who I was without them around. There was this sense of being molded and formed by them to the point where I no longer recall my own original laugh since I mirrored my brother's.

But yeah, I keep turning to others in times of decision making-I need that support system. I'm full of self-doubt. Despite me liking variety in terms of experiences, change really throws me off. Maybe it's the nine fear of loss instead, but yeah, I'm admittedly clingy in relationships, get nervous to leave places just because I'm used to them, that stuff. Also, I have a weird relationship with trust. Like my nine makes me go-with-the flow and at times almost too trusting of friends.

All of this sounds incredibly E6 to me, not E9. They are both conforming, but the #1 difference that always helped me clear things up in my mind was that in E9 it comes from a place of Agreeableness: wanting to get along to the point of going along with even things they don't want to, not wanting to choose a preference that could bother the other person or create separation, etc. Contrarywise, E6's conformity comes from a place of Neuroticism: fear, anxiety, inability to trust themselves or the information before them (or trusting excessively at times), worst case scenario thinking, etc.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

(bolded struck me as a general sx sentiment, but not necessarily)
How much would you say this is a focus in your life? How much do you need to have people you can trust, and why? What do you need to be able to trust them with?

That doesn't have anything to do with the sexual instinct, which is essentially about attraction/repulsion. Sx is plugging into something to get a charge or shock. It's juicy, but alternatively can be dry because if it's not stimulated, it's not interested and will instinctually communicate that to others without even trying. It's a compass, always searching for the magnetic pull. Someone could be trying to get the attention of the Sx individual, but if they operate from the South, then the Sx won't be interested and won't even turn around to explore that direction.

On the other hand, let's say you have two Sx individuals. Let's make them both the positive side of two magnets. They both have their own energy field and know what they like. Let's say magnet A is really drawn to magnet B, but magnet B doesn't feel the same about magnet A. No matter how hard magnet A pushes into magnet B (attraction), magnet B will always repel the connection (repulsion).

Sx is the peacock's feathers, a display of "Here I am! Do you like what you see?!?" And not everyone will be into that display, but the few who are will be drawn in, and from there, the peacock decides who is most alluring.

The sexual instinct exists on essentially a chemical level and cannot be overridden by will or connection (which is more indicative of the social instinct individual who is concerned with care, warmth, reciprocation, commonality, etc). If for some reason someone with strong sexual attempts to override their internal sense of attraction/repulsion, say, by trying to make an intimate relationship work with someone whose personality is great but who doesn't chemically ignite them, the Sx individual will suffer greatly with dissatisfaction and the relationship will be doomed. I speak from experience.

With the instincts, you must literally look at it as a deeply rooted, primal drive toward survival... an instinct. It's not nearly as complicated as people make it.

 

[Venus Rose]

(bolded struck me as a general sx sentiment, but not necessarily)
How much would you say this is a focus in your life? How much do you need to have people you can trust, and why? What do you need to be able to trust them with?

Just wanted to comment - I don't think you said anything wrong here...I can see how that can be viewed as an sx statement.

Also, this is not a comment on [MENTION=38618]robobot14[/MENTION]'s type. As far as I know, she is typing as sp/so, and I don't have any issues with that currently.

 

[Earl Grey]

That doesn't have anything to do with the sexual instinct, which is essentially about attraction/repulsion. Sx is plugging into something to get a charge or shock. It's juicy, but alternatively can be dry because if it's not stimulated, it's not interested and will instinctually communicate that to others without even trying. It's a compass, always searching for the magnetic pull. Someone could be trying to get the attention of the Sx individual, but if they operate from the South, then the Sx won't be interested and won't even turn around to explore that direction.

On the other hand, let's say you have two Sx individuals. Let's make them both the positive side of two magnets. They both have their own energy field and know what they like. Let's say magnet A is really drawn to magnet B, but magnet B doesn't feel the same about magnet A. No matter how hard magnet A pushes into magnet B (attraction), magnet B will always repel the connection (repulsion).

Sx is the peacock's feathers, a display of "Here I am! Do you like what you see?!?" And not everyone will be into that display, but the few who are will be drawn in, and from there, the peacock decides who is most alluring.

The sexual instinct exists on essentially a chemical level and cannot be overridden by will or connection (which is more indicative of the social instinct individual who is concerned with care, warmth, reciprocation, commonality, etc). If for some reason someone with strong sexual attempts to override their internal sense of attraction/repulsion, say, by trying to make an intimate relationship work with someone whose personality is great but who doesn't chemically ignite them, the Sx individual will suffer greatly with dissatisfaction and the relationship will be doomed. I speak from experience.

With the instincts, you must literally look at it as a deeply rooted, primal drive toward survival... an instinct. It's not nearly as complicated as people make it.

Very interesting. I had recently read something along a similar vein, and made similar observations with my sx-dom friend(s). As I told one of them, 'it seems as if you are an electrical appliance with no charge- you have to be plugged into something', which came as a shocking realization to me. It does seem truly chemical rather than a conscious choice- something I also did not realize. Your clarifications are both very enlightening and do match the material I have read, and I may use your post in the future as references towards sx and how it works.

And in relation to this thread, this is me saying that in other words, take whatever I say about sx with a dead sea of salt.

 

[Saturnal Snowqueen]

Very interesting. I had recently read something along a similar vein, and made similar observations with my sx-dom friend(s). As I told one of them, 'it seems as if you are an electrical appliance with no charge- you have to be plugged into something', which came as a shocking realization to me. It does seem truly chemical rather than a conscious choice- something I also did not realize. Your clarifications are both very enlightening and do match the material I have read, and I may use your post in the future as references towards sx and how it works.

And in relation to this thread, this is me saying that in other words, take whatever I say about sx with a dead sea of salt.

Thanks. I don't see sx in myself personally. I am synflow and am definitely SP dom since I am very security focused. Belonging is what I want, yes. The thought of intensity usually makes me cringe

6/6w7 it is then? I have picked that for now. Though I wonder, just how many decisions do sixes want help with? Though I turn to other people with big decisions like ones about school and am indecisive as a whole, I usually try to stay independent. I don't ask for help much as I should irl. Might be SP though.

 

[Earl Grey]

Thanks. I don't see sx in myself personally. I am synflow and am definitely SP dom since I am very security focused. Belonging is what I want, yes. The thought of intensity usually makes me cringe

6/6w7 it is then? I have picked that for now. Though I wonder, just how many decisions do sixes want help with? Though I turn to other people with big decisions like ones about school and am indecisive as a whole, I usually try to stay independent. I don't ask for help much as I should irl. Might be SP though.

I do not know you that well and have not been that much around lately, but if you want my two cents in the form of observations I have made about type 6s, it is that on the surface, they could be as studious as one would 'stereotypically' expect a 5 to be, combined with the responsibility, control, and accountability that resembles 1s, especially if sp. It would be mistaken to look through type 6 through purely its dependence/lack of decisiveness, that would be like looking at type 5 only through its antisocialism, type 2 for its neediness, type 8 as its lack of temper control, etc. The strengths of type 6 involve a very can-do attitude and practical, pragmatic approach to life, their strength is in their premediation (as opposed to say, E5s, who are more content with a simpler level of intellectually-based preparation) and very problem-solving mindset at higher health levels. A 6 is a very capable type to be. A more relevant question would be what kind of decisions 6s would need help with (and why), instead of how many. The 'how many' would depend on the specific persons themselves as well as their backgrounds and life situations. A very content, secured 6 might not need to make as many decisions in their life. Indecision is also not exclusive to type 6 (E5 analysis paralysis, anyone?)

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I do not know you that well and have not been that much around lately, but if you want my two cents in the form of observations I have made about type 6s, it is that on the surface, they could be as studious as one would 'stereotypically' expect a 5 to be, combined with the responsibility, control, and accountability that resembles 1s, especially if sp. It would be mistaken to look through type 6 through purely its dependence/lack of decisiveness, that would be like looking at type 5 only through its antisocialism, type 2 for its neediness, type 8 as its lack of temper control, etc. The strengths of type 6 involve a very can-do attitude and practical, pragmatic approach to life, their strength is in their premediation (as opposed to say, E5s, who are more content with a simpler level of intellectually-based preparation) and very problem-solving mindset at higher health levels. A 6 is a very capable type to be. A more relevant question would be what kind of decisions 6s would need help with (and why), instead of how many. The 'how many' would depend on the specific persons themselves as well as their backgrounds and life situations. A very content, secured 6 might not need to make as many decisions in their life. Indecision is also not exclusive to type 6 (E5 analysis paralysis, anyone?)

Oooh, do me!

 

[Earl Grey]

Oooh, do me!

You were 4-core, no? I might, 4 is a very interesting type (and I wonder if this comes across as a compliment), if you have a Type Me thread.