Richard Dawkins disapproves of "anti-scientific" literature, like "Harry Potter"

[Mole]

I liked the appeal to primitive emotions. A highly effective Rhetorical non-sequitur which very effectively bypasses the logic centres of the brain in susceptible targets.

Emotions are of course not the slightest bit primitive. Our emotions have evolved over the millenia and are exquisitely sophisticated.

And our emotions make our entire social life possible.

While logic has important but limited applications. Probably the most important use of logic is in the programming of computers.

Logic is important in the ordering of things.

But we are living, feeling persons. We are not things.

But we live in the Age of Things and so we are tempted to turn people into things as the Germans did in Auschwitz and the Japanese did in Unit 731.

So just as logic is appropriate for things, emotion is appropriate for living, breathing people like you and I.

In fact it is a perversion to apply logic to persons.

So let us live and swim in our emotions as we swim in the sea - free.

Are you persuaded yet?

 

[Jack Flak]

Are you sure about that? I thought he seemed pretty damm good at pleasing certain people, particularly those who manage to maintain an elevated view of their own intelligence in the absence of much developement of their faculties for crritical thinking...

Yes, but when I said people I meant people in general, not smartypants people. Still fits with INTP.

 

[Mole]

Believe me, my parents were doing no persuading on that front.

Ah, you persuaded them yourself.

You are a born Rhetorician.

 

[Orangey]

Emotions are of course not the slightest bit primitive. Our emotions have evolved over the millenia and are exquisitely sophisticated.

And our emotions make our entire social life possible.

While logic has important but limited applications. Probably the most important use of logic is in the programming of computers.

Logic is important in the ordering of things.

But we are living, feeling persons. We are not things.

But we live in the Age of Things and so we are tempted to turn people into things as the Germans did in Auschwitz and the Japanese did in Unit 731.

So just as logic is appropriate for things, emotion is appropriate for living, breathing people like you and I.

In fact it is a perversion to apply logic to persons.

So let us live and swim in our emotions as we swim in the sea - free.

Are you persuaded?

No. If you will recall, persuasion by Aristotle's model consists of ethos, pathos, AND logos. Though the "sack full of quarters" method, wherein one is repeatedly hit over the head with the same message until they're persuaded, is effective without it.

 

[Jack Flak]

Emotions are of course not the slightest bit primitive. Our emotions have evolved over the millenia and are exquisitely sophisticated.

And our emotions make our entire social life possible.

While logic has important but limited applications. Probably the most important use of logic is in the programming of computers.

Logic is important in the ordering of things.

But we are living, feeling persons. We are not things.

But we live in the Age of Things and so we are tempted to turn people into things as the Germans did in Auschwitz and the Japanese did in Unit 731.

So just as logic is appropriate for things, emotion is appropriate for living, breathing people like you and I.

In fact it is a perversion to apply logic to persons.

So let us live and swim in our emotions as we swim in the sea - free.

Are you persuaded yet?

I agree aside from the bolded statement. Logic is a tool, and people can be disassembled with logic, in order to get a closer look. You may have philosophical objection to psychological analysis, but I don't. I'm not talking about Freud, he was a hack.

 

[ragashree]

Emotions are of course not the slightest bit primitive.

Indeed

But that doesn't mean I am persuaded by smartypants implications regarding my level of humanity and connectedness with the rest of such.

But we live in the Age of Things and so we are tempted to turn people into things as the Germans did in Auschwitz and the Japanese did in Unit 731.

So just as logic is appropriate for things, emotion is appropriate for living, breathing people like you and I.

In fact it is a perversion to apply logic to persons.

good try though

 

[Edgar]

Ok, I know I'm late for the party here, but there is no way in hell Victor is an INTP.

(i know, i know, different thread)

 

[Jack Flak]

Ok, I know I'm late for the party here, but there is no way in hell Victor is an INTP.

(i know, i know, different thread)

Victor doesn't claim to be INTP. I can't type him at all, which means he's probably more intelligent than I am.

 

[Mole]

No. If you will recall, persuasion by Aristotle's model consists of ethos, pathos, AND logos. Though the "sack full of quarters" method, wherein one is repeatedly hit over the head with the same message until they're persuaded, is effective without it.

I applied logos to getting a date. I explained all the advantages of dating me. And all the disadvantages of not dating me. I explained it was perfectly logical for her to date me. And we would have a perfectly logical date.

She kinda looked embarrassed, and twisted her handkerchief, she cast her eyes down and said, "It's not you personally, its just that I never date engineers".

"But what about Dilbert?", I asked, "Would you date Dilbert, he's an engineer?".

"Quite", she said.

I didn't know quite what she meant, but I had to go to dinner alone with only logos for company.

 

[Edgar]

Victor doesn't claim to be INTP. I can't type him at all, which means he's probably more intelligent than I am.

Well what's that stuff under his avatar then?

Join Date: Mar 2008
Type: INTP
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 1,335

 

[Jack Flak]

I applied logos to getting a date. I explained all the advantages of dating me. And all the disadvantages of not dating me. I explained it was perfectly logical for her to date me. And we would have a perfectly logical date.

She kinda looked embarrassed, and twisted her handkerchief, she cast her eyes down and said, "It's not you personally, its just that I never date engineers".

"But what about Dilbert?", I asked, "Would you date Dilbert, he's an engineer?".

"Quite", she said.

I didn't know quite what she meant, but I had to go to dinner alone with only logos for company.

Yes, that's about right...For post of the month.

 

[edcoaching]

Victor doesn't claim to be INTP. I can't type him at all, which means he's probably more intelligent than I am.

Or, since type is about normal differences among normal people, maybe the difference is in degree of normalcy and not intelligence...

 

[Jack Flak]

Well what's that stuff under his avatar then?

Join Date: Mar 2008
Type: INTP
Location: Canberra, Australia
Posts: 1,335

He's accepted three typings from other members. Was ESFP for a while.

Or, since type is about normal differences among normal people, maybe the difference is in degree of normalcy and not intelligence...

I get what he says more than most here seem to. There's a point to it. By the way, high intelligence is a form of divergence from normalcy.

 

[ragashree]

Just in case anyone still gives a stuff about the original premise of this thread:

Why would Dawkins remotely CARE? Except for reasons of self-publicity?

 

[Jack Flak]

Just in case anyone still gives a stuff about the original premise of this thread:

Why would Dawkins remotely CARE? Except for reasons of self-publicity?

Strategic error, most likely. It would be my estimation that fantasy-oriented fiction would serve to deteriorate belief in the most prevalent religion if nothing else, and splitting supernatural beliefs in the populace serves to deteriorate the entire concept.

 

[Mole]

Ok, I know I'm late for the party here, but there is no way in hell Victor is an INTP.

So my dear Edgar, how would you type me.

Do take your time and type me

 

[ragashree]

Strategic error, most likely.

Maybe, though I think saying something that makes him look like a prize idiot and reduces his credibility to almost everyone except diehard followers is nevertheless a bigger one.

It would be my estimation that fantasy-oriented fiction would serve to deteriorate belief in the most prevalent religion if nothing else, and splitting supernatural beliefs in the populace serves to deteriorate the entire concept.

The first point, quite likely. The second... I don't know. It depends whether you accept the principle that, as the saying goes: "When people stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing... they believe in anything." The need still seems to be there in a lot of people, regardless of whether they choose to affix it to the holy trinity or feng shui...

 

[Jack Flak]

The first point, quite likely. The second... I don't know. It depends whether you accept the principle that, as the saying goes: "When people stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing... they believe in anything." The need still seems to be there in a lot of people, regardless of whether they choose to affix it to the holy trinity or feng shui...

The saying seems to hold some water, but consider the following.

To exaggerate the result, let's say everyone comes to their own religious conclusions as opposed to there being one dominant religion in a society. Then religious belief lacks direction, and force, and is less dangerous to the atheist.

 

[Orangey]

The whole danger of religion is that it can be used in hegemonic ways (to lord over other groups in society that have less power and influence). If it isn't being used that way, then who gives a crap if people believe in it?

Oh, and Victor, that was an amusing story about your date. I'd hope that we all knew how and when to employ ethos, pathos, or logos to the most persuasive effect possible in any given situation. That you clearly didn't is proof of your ineptitude with ethos or pathos. Not of the uselessness of logos with regards to humans in rhetorical situations.

 

[edcoaching]

I get what he says more than most here seem to. There's a point to it. By the way, high intelligence is a form of divergence from normalcy.

Guess I never noticed since all my friends are above average...