[NT] Rationalists (NT) as mothers

[Qre:us]

For anyone with experience (either being a mama yourself, or having an NT mom), how do NTs make out as mothers?

Esp. with the T, how does conveying affection and feeling translate? Or, the NTP scatterbrain (and lack of motivation to care even about one's own physical health, let alone another's)?

* I personally don't know about being a mom, well, at least not biologically, the whole birthing process is quite awful (disgusting?) to me, starting with 9 months of pregnancy and culminating in the painful parting of the red sea....

[and I am highly pain avoidant (physical)]

* And, all my best/closest friends always joke about me being a mother, like it's the most hilarious thing to imagine since we discovered jokes about flatulence.

Although, they all agree I'd be the most awsomest, funnest aunt.

....I guess some insight into changes of self, perspectives that came about [need to come about] when becoming a mother, would be helpful.

And, if you want to get specifics with the four types of NT, that would also be helpful, i.e., giving case examples. Esp. ENTP?

Btw, to all the mamas out there, including the best one (mine - an INFP), my admiration for you cannot be summed up in words! Big up to the nation!

 

[ceecee]

Childbirth - No drugs. It really wasn't that bad with either of them. I'll be honest though, it had a whole lot more to do with letting someone else have control of the situation than anything. That and no one is sticking a needle for an epidural in my back. I also understand fully why animals go off alone to birth. I wanted nothing more than to be left alone.

Parenting - I think I did a great job with them considering I was raised with a SJ mother (don't touch ANYTHING!!!). I'm more easy going, more willing to let the kids make choices and be their own people. They're good boys, grown and nearly grown. They are funny and I like spending time with them as much as possible.

Becoming a mother makes you humble in an instant. I think that's the biggest surprise of all.

 

[jenocyde]

I have no children, and never thought once about having any.

I am an aunt to a 2yr old niece and 2 week old nephew. I love them as if they were my own. I am always chasing my niece around and hugging her and kissing her, to the point where she pushes me away (laughing, though...) I do notice that I tend to teach her things that seem out of her league, because I feel that she understands way more than her parents realize. Like when she grabs their camera, they jump up and take it away from her. When she grabs mine, I laugh and pull her onto my lap and show her which button to push to make a picture. (she really takes good photos now, I must say...) I also teach her to put the strap around her shoulder (not neck, yikes!) first so she won't drop it. I just make her feel comfortable to touch it and explore and not be scared of technology or whatever, as long as she is gentle.

Also, her baby brother was born two weeks ago. Whenever she comes near him, her parents somehow panic. I just show her how to be "gentle" and to not scream too loud. She can touch her brother all she wants if she washes her hands and all her fingers are stretched out (e.g. - not balled into a fist and not in a poking motion). She kisses him so much when I am around her, doesn't even attempt that when her parents are around (they are ISFJ and ISFP). The minute I walk into a room, she lights up because she knows I will never tell her "no" and make her sit in time out. I'm with her 50% of the time and have never once raised my voice to her. If I tell her to stop, she immediately stops. Her mom yells constantly and she never stops when her mom tells her to. She loves her mother (the ISFJ) very much, but they just have a different kind of relationship.

It's funny how her mom will never let her leave the house looking less than presentable (hair combed, matching pants/shirt/shoes) but I drag her out in whatever she wants to wear (a tutu and a baseball cap) because I know she'll just get messed up anyway. I almost always dress her (to her parents dismay) in rubber boots and nylon pants, so she can splash around in puddles and roll around in mud. I don't think I've ever once thought to brush her hair. Not even once.

Her bath time is like an hour long process when I'm around because I let her splash around as much as she wants, I don't care if the bathroom is dripping water everywhere afterwards. Bath time is not just for utility to get her clean, but to learn how to make bubbles, how certain objects stay afloat and others sink, how to hold your breath, how things sound different underwater. Stuff like that. I just like her to have fun and I get a kick out of seeing things "click" in her mind. The moment she "gets" something. She's a source of endless fun for me, she's just so curious!

 

[Tallulah]

I'm the same way jeno is with her niece with my niece and nephew, but I do see that being their mother would be a lot harder, and that I would probably end up cutting a lot of that stuff out if I had kids, just because if you're constantly doing the fun stuff with them, they're always going to be thinking of more stuff to get into, and you'll never get them to eat and do their homework and go to bed, and hence, you'll never have any alone time.

I am a fantastic aunt, but I don't know if I'd be a fantastic mother. I'm afraid I'm too selfish. My alone time is absolutely essential, and when I'm constantly tending to others' needs and constantly interacting with others with no time to myself, I don't feel grounded at all, and get very cranky. My sister struggles with that, too, but overall, she's okay with being so kid-focused and has kind of embraced being part of the "mom community," as well. I think it would bother me to be immersed in that community, mostly being recognized as "Michael's mom," rather than who I am as a person, and constantly setting up playdates and going to kid soccer games every single Saturday of my life. I'm afraid I'd resent not having enough time to do the things that I enjoy doing, as well. And I'm afraid my kids would miss out on the stuff they would like to do, just because I wasn't into it.

I don't know how much of that is personality type and how much of it is immaturity/selfishness. I do know that I would adore my kids if I had them. But I've just never had a great desire for kids of my own. I always thought it would be awesome to have cool adult children, though.

 

[tinkerbell]

I'm pretty sure my mum was a rationalist....

We were given a huge amount of freedom around the home/garden - which was huge... We had few rules. I'm the youngest of a large family mainly of boys. I remember one o fthe older ones giving us a car to take to bits at one point.

My mum could pretty much turn her hand to most things, I'm fairly confident she was an ENTP. She was very creative, my dad seemed more mathematical.

We kids got both talents, for maths and creativity. We're mainly all good card players, and a good few earn some money in the creative world at something (certainly the next generation are keen to do just that).

The older ones focus was mainly on being entrepenarial, the younger ones more focused on advanced education and getting higher level jobs.

In comparision to my girl friends, I didn't have to be clean (which is just as well as a tom boy whose clothes were covered in oil from bikes). I didn't have anywhere near so many rules, I could basically be myself.

Lis

 

[Qre:us]

I am a fantastic aunt, but I don't know if I'd be a fantastic mother. I'm afraid I'm too selfish. My alone time is absolutely essential, and when I'm constantly tending to others' needs and constantly interacting with others with no time to myself, I don't feel grounded at all, and get very cranky.
I don't know how much of that is personality type and how much of it is immaturity/selfishness.

Becoming a mother makes you humble in an instant. I think that's the biggest surprise of all.

Maybe the answer lies with what ceecee suggests, an instant 180 of self to other that we can't even begin to phatom given our understanding of self, but, it comes regardless?

 

[Grungemouse]

Don't they lay their clutch of eggs under logs, or abandoned burrows?

 

[Amira]

My mom is INTJ and she is really cool. We were in another country for most of my childhood and she raised us kids very carefully, for example, making sure to get us plenty of English-language books (hard to do at the time), encouraging play with neighborhood kids but at our house so everyone stayed safe, things like that. Basically she was very intentional about how she raised us. I will say that I was a very *challenging* toddler up until about 4 or 5 - I got up every morning and pretended that I did not know there were any rules that had ever been invented. My mom credits me with teaching her how to forgive but she was stubborn enough to keep trying to teach me and I ended up being a very easy older kid and teen. My mom says she is very glad she had kids b/c she doesn't want to think about what a selfish and grumpy little old lady she would have ended up being. She is very cool and overall I guess I would have to say the best thing about her is how she is so intentional about life and does not just want to go through it and let whatever happens happen, but she realizes that living well takes lots of work and planning. I also really, really appreciate her huge amount of knowledge and love for reading. She passed that love of learning to me and I can't imagine life without that.

 

[Qre:us]

Don't they lay their clutch of eggs under logs, or abandoned burrows?

If only it was as easy as laying eggs and then sitting our asses on the eggs to make them hatch. I could be on the net surfing while I sit, or read a book, or, snooze. Wayyy better than packing a watermelon that just won't dislodge.

 

[Qre:us]

She passed that love of learning to me and I can't imagine life without that.

Although I don't want to short-sight myself with stereotypes, I believe this to be one of the greatest things an NT mother can give to her children. The love for learning and inquiry.

Thank you for your input. I think the J versus P divide might make for greater challenges (for the latter) to motherhood where NTs are concerned.

 

[Tallulah]

Maybe the answer lies with what ceecee suggests, an instant 180 of self to other that we can't even begin to phatom given our understanding of self, but, it comes regardless?

I've wondered that, too. And I have often thought that having kids, for me, would be largely an act of faith, since I've never had a burning desire for them, but I know that I would be one of those insane mothers that thinks everything their kids does is brilliant and hilarious.

 

[groovejet02]

Beh. Mothers are mothers, rationalists or not. They have good intentions but they ultimately fuck you up!

 

[Qre:us]

Beh. Mothers are mothers, rationalists or not. They have good intentions but they ultimately fuck you up!

My mother lifted me up, celebrated my quirks, fueled my curiosity, and, didn't think too badly of my P-ness. She had infinite patience with me as a child. Each meal was a 2hrs long process, with at least 5-6 fairy tales told for each, with me promising to swallow if she could just again tell me, "how did the turkey gobble at the ugly duckling?" She showed me the beauty of art, in all its messy (in thought and action) glory.

She is an INFP, a very strong one, so, as I grew older, I sometimes had to 'mother' her. By retrieving the hairbrush from the freezer. Or turn over-protective because someone found her beautiful daydreaming self to be an easy target to pick on. Or when my dad employed logic to counter her valid points and all she could give at the moment was emotions, I helped her word her case to be able to play in the field of logic. But, never did any of these things 'fuck me up'.

I sometimes actually feel that I need to resolve to love my mother more. Then, I think on it and realize: impossible.

 

[Qre:us]

I've wondered that, too. And I have often thought that having kids, for me, would be largely an act of faith, since I've never had a burning desire for them, but I know that I would be one of those insane mothers that thinks everything their kids does is brilliant and hilarious.

Me too! Then again, it's because I can find *something* about someone that's gold and run with it.

All my jobs as a student have either been with the old or the young. Seniors' home to daycares. But, only kids old enough to be potty-trained.

I love kids. And animals. We have a lot of fun together. No one else is willing to indulge in silliness and play as them. For no other reason, than, 'just cuz'. And, for this reason alone, I would love kids. Playmates forever!!! (I just finished an intense game of hide-and-seek with my roomie's 2 kitties and now they're passed out on my bed, HA! i outlasted them).

I have also been trained and worked for a few years with children with Autism Spectrum Disorder. And, this was one of the greatest revelation in how to interact, when the other speaks a completely different language than me. And, to meet in the middleground (even though I've been pissed on, chunks of hair pulled, bitten). There's this 'joy' in connecting.

So, I'd say I have a pretty souped up resume and motivation to want kids...but....

Tenderness.

I can give hugs and kisses cuz they're just so cute, but, often it's one of the last thoughts. First is engagement, inquiry, play, some basic semblance of daily living skills (solely to be able to partake in the former 3)....and after it all, tenderness.

Which my mother had in spades. As the first things she could give. And, maybe I'm buying too much into the 'coldness' of NT, but, I don't want my children to be missing out because their mother doesn't always think about tenderness.

 

[EmilyEccentric]

I have an ENTP mom, and man is she crazy!! Taking us on field trips and making us do things like kayaking and learning how to ski...can't she let me and my brothers be in peace!?

But I love my mom, although she often misplaces things, which is the butt of many jokes, unfortunately.

 

[Qre:us]

^ Oooh, what do you wish you saw more of from your ENTP mom?

 

[Lightyear]

My mum is an INTJ and she was always like a good friend for me, I can talk to her about almost anything.

Her mum is an ESTJ which didn't work out very well, my mum still feels like my gran just never "got her" and is too controlling.

My mum showed me her love by giving me a lot of freedom, I have more or less always done what I wanted (which worked fine with me since I was a thoughtful, well-behaved child that wasn't interested in parties, boys etc.).

Me and my brother are both introverts (my brother is an INTP) so I was actually happy that my I-mum didn't bother me too much but gave me my own space. She has also always bought me a lot of books and tried to foster my intellectual capabilities. I am very thankful to her for that.

Though I was never a kid to make stupid, imprudent decisions I sometimes wish she would have given me a bit less independence and not trusted that much in my innate ability to know what is the right thing to do. But if I would have to choose between SJ control and NT independence I would choose the NT parenting approach every time! (And to be quite honest, if she would have told me what to do I would have done it my way anyway > INFJ inner stubborness and independent streak)

My mum also has a hidden emotional side that would especially come to the surface with me, "her flesh and blood". If I would come home a bit too late she would be very worried, she wouldn't make a scene or anything but she would be definitely worried that something had happened to me. She also really loves me but never in a very showy way, the signals are more subtle. Actually with age she has become a bit more emotional and demonstrative in her affections, she told me I taught her about emotions and how to reach people by letting her feelings show (for example complementing someone or stroking the hand of someone who is upset etc > things that are natural to me as a major Fe user but that she had to learn over the years)

Yes, as a NT mum I think you will love your kids simply because they are your kids (after all you have not just your brain but also your ovaries for a reason ) and you will probably be more easy-going with them then other parents but you have to be careful that you don't give them too much independence, you are their partent and not their older sister and they are at the end of the day just children with much less life experience than yourself. Don't be afraid to put your foot down, as an NT you will thankfully be discerning enough to know when that is actually truly necessary.

 

[ceecee]

Which my mother had in spades. As the first things she could give. And, maybe I'm buying too much into the 'coldness' of NT, but, I don't want my children to be missing out because their mother doesn't always think about tenderness.

I think you may be. I don't lack tenderness with my children or children in general. When mine were little my favorite thing was cuddling with them every morning. They always slept in their own rooms all night but morning cuddling was the best. On weekends we'd watch tv and have breakfast in bed. Lots of hugs and kisses, that's still the rule most every night. I think having kids changes you, maybe fosters those things you might have lacked or felt you lacked such as tenderness. But none of the people closest to me would see a deficit here.

 

[Frank]

My Mom is an intp. Growing up her and I butted heads alot. I was too strong-willed for her liking and didn't fall into place quite like my brother (enfp?) or sister es/nfj. She wasn't overly affectionate and though I know she did now, I would often wonder if she loved me. This could also be a middle child thing more than a type thing though. One thing that always drove me crazy was her lack of domestic skills. The house was always much messier than I liked. The one area we always did connect on was our philosophical "debates". Although we often held different opinions we both enjoyed the verbal back and forth.

Now that I'm older we get along much better. I know I still drive her crazy with my strong-willed "my way" approach to life and she still pisses me of when doubting my plans or ability to accomplish them but we now have an appreciation for each other's ways and even a slight admiration.

 

[Gamine]

My mom is an INTJ and probably the most compassionate person I have ever known. She encouraged me in all of my interests, and supported me through all of my failures. She can get inside other peoples heads (including mine) which drives me batty occasionally, but she has the best intentions.

She taught me how to pick locks, hot-wire vehicles, tie rope-knots, untie rope-knots, climb trees, identify different kinds of rocks, identify types of clouds and weather formations, track constellations and planet movements, play classical guitar, tap dance, catch fish, garden, fix anything and everything, install appliances, find balance and insult people in appropriate and humourous ways.

If I end up half as courageous, determined and gracious as her, I will have turned out just fine.