Random Star Trek thoughts

[The Cat]

As it turns out Jadzia knew EXACTLY how much Odo valued order, I think she started moving Odo's stuff around because Curzon's sense of humor with his friends was often described as infuriating; which is why she always put everything back. I think she also was uniquely suited to know how much he valued those occassional disruptions to his order, a way to stay connected to the tempting chaos of Curzon that was so alluring to him that he almost didnt return Curzon's memories to Dax. Which is why I think even though he was upset, once they were back in private he seemed more bemused than annoyed. I often suspect Odo enjoys lecturing and being forbidding, though he could just shape shift into a Tarkelian porcupine or a huyperion sea urchin or an andorian ice cactus if he wanted to have spines.

 

[The Cat]

Please souless corporate overlords at the top of the Paramountain...I beeseech you, please give us a gritty section 31 series. I want to see the brokenness in Star Fleet. I want to see past the curtain of boldly going. I want to feel weird about slowly warming up to federation spies as they crime across the galaxy for the "greater good" of the Federation. I want the Operatives to feel like they almost did in Ds9 and how they were perfected in Firefly/Serenity. I want that show to exist. i also dont care if its an adult animation. `

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Please souless corporate overlords at the top of the Paramountain...I beeseech you, please give us a gritty section 31 series. I want to see the brokenness in Star Fleet. I want to see past the curtain of boldly going. I want to feel weird about slowly warming up to federation spies as they crime across the galaxy for the "greater good" of the Federation. I want the Operatives to feel like they almost did in Ds9 and how they were perfected in Firefly/Serenity. I want that show to exist. i also dont care if its an adult animation. `

I'd watch a show about the Serenity Operatives.

 

[The Cat]

That moment when you realize that Gul Dukat was already planning if he hadnt already started secret talks with the Dominion In Season 4 Epsisode 14 Return to Grace, like at the very beginning of the episode...

Also unrelated, but Ds9 is a pretty good space western, its not the same spagetti space western of fire fly, but more like gunsmoke or rawhide.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

That moment when you realize that Gul Dukat was already planning if he hadnt already started secret talks with the Dominion In Season 4 Epsisode 14 Return to Grace, like at the very beginning of the episode...

Also unrelated, but Ds9 is a pretty good space western, its not the same spagetti space western of fire fly, but more like gunsmoke or rawhide.

Also, it puts into perspective the one where Weyoun offered Sisko full dictatorship over the Federation. He likely made the exact same pitch to Dukat. I wonder how quickly Dukat snatched that offer, or if he took his time and played coy with Weyoun. One of those unseen moments I've always wished we'd gotten. And we know a similar pitch was likely made to the Breen leader.

 

[The Cat]

Nowhere is the weird prudish hang ups people have around sex more than episodes around Rhysa. Here we have the most enlightened planet in the entire federation outside of Betazed, and Vulcan and Trill and Kronos and Cardassia an entire planet devoted to "pleasure" and barely a handful of episodes in over 80 years. Its the future damn it. I want an officially liscened high quality Star Trek porn series that takes place on Rhysa. Adultime could do it, and it would probably be pretty damned compelling....it will never happen of course because people have weird hang up about sex stuff...sad.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Nowhere is the weird prudish hang ups people have around sex more than episodes around Rhysa. Here we have the most enlightened planet in the entire federation outside of Betazed, and Vulcan and Trill and Kronos and Cardassia an entire planet devoted to "pleasure" and barely a handful of episodes in over 80 years. Its the future damn it. I want an officially liscened high quality Star Trek porn series that takes place on Rhysa. Adultime could do it, and it would probably be pretty damned compelling....it will never happen of course because people have weird hang up about sex stuff...sad.

Well wasn't one of them about Jack The Ripper for some reason?

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

What if it were the TOS Enterprise and Kirk’s crew stranded in the Delta Quadrant?

Enterprise D/Picard’s crew?

Defiant/Sisko’s crew + Garak and Quark?

NX Enterprise/Archer’s crew?

SNW Enterprise/Pike’s crew?

Cerritos/Freeman’s crew

Titan/Riker’s crew?


Personally I think Sisko and Archer, despite having the two ships least suited for long term journeys without resupply/repairs are the two Captains most suited for this scenario. I see Picard, Pike and maybe Kirk being unwilling to bend the rules enough or step outside of their boyscout duty duty duty mindsets.

Shipwise, I think Enterprise D or TOS Enterprise are best suited for long term, since they were designed with deep space exploration where contact with Starfleet command isn’t always an option. Defiant is a tough ship and would excel in battles where Voyager struggled to survive. But she’s the equivalent of an OP gunboat and it would be like trying to fly an Apache helicopter from the Middle East to the USA with no refuel or maintenance allowed.



Now, imagine all of the TNG era hero ships and captains are stranded together (I guess that includes Cerritos, technically being a late TNG period ship). Does Picard become fleet captain due to having the ship with greatest tactical superiority, and how does Sisko handle having to be under the command of the man indirectly responsible for Wolf 359 and his wife’s death? (I think Janeway and Picard would get along well for the most part).

I think Picard would amp up diplomatic efforts and try to establish as many alliances as possible with DQ races and cultures. Sisko would want to focus on getting back at almost any cost, and I think he’d butt heads with Picard while Janeway would serve as a sort of swing vote, sometimes taking Picard’s positions and sometimes Sisko’s.

The Cerritos would get the shitty jobs the other crews don’t want.


Quark would be great at helping Picard iron out diplomatic agreements most beneficial to the stranded Starfleet armada. Kim would have more routes and options for promotion and might even end up switching crews to serve on the Enterprise or Defiant. Chakotay and Sisko will initially be at odds considering Sisko was pretty pissed at the maquis in general. Garak almost immediately susses out Seska’s true identity and motives, and the Kazon never pose the same threat they did to Voyager alone. The stranded armada gets a reputation in the alpha quadrant and only the most powerful or bold alien cultures try to fuck with them. Hell, Data, Geordi, O’Brien, Jadzia and Data probably figure out a way home before the events of the pilot are over. For that matter, how do the Q visits differ if he knows his good friend Jean Luc is with the armada? Does he help subtly or consider this part of his trial of humanity?

 

[The Cat]

Well wasn't one of them about Jack The Ripper for some reason?

What if it were the TOS Enterprise and Kirk’s crew stranded in the Delta Quadrant?

Enterprise D/Picard’s crew?

Defiant/Sisko’s crew + Garak and Quark?

NX Enterprise/Archer’s crew?

SNW Enterprise/Pike’s crew?

Cerritos/Freeman’s crew

Titan/Riker’s crew?


Personally I think Sisko and Archer, despite having the two ships least suited for long term journeys without resupply/repairs are the two Captains most suited for this scenario. I see Picard, Pike and maybe Kirk being unwilling to bend the rules enough or step outside of their boyscout duty duty duty mindsets.

Shipwise, I think Enterprise D or TOS Enterprise are best suited for long term, since they were designed with deep space exploration where contact with Starfleet command isn’t always an option. Defiant is a tough ship and would excel in battles where Voyager struggled to survive. But she’s the equivalent of an OP gunboat and it would be like trying to fly an Apache helicopter from the Middle East to the USA with no refuel or maintenance allowed.



Now, imagine all of the TNG era hero ships and captains are stranded together (I guess that includes Cerritos, technically being a late TNG period ship). Does Picard become fleet captain due to having the ship with greatest tactical superiority, and how does Sisko handle having to be under the command of the man indirectly responsible for Wolf 359 and his wife’s death? (I think Janeway and Picard would get along well for the most part).

I think Picard would amp up diplomatic efforts and try to establish as many alliances as possible with DQ races and cultures. Sisko would want to focus on getting back at almost any cost, and I think he’d butt heads with Picard while Janeway would serve as a sort of swing vote, sometimes taking Picard’s positions and sometimes Sisko’s.

The Cerritos would get the shitty jobs the other crews don’t want.


Quark would be great at helping Picard iron out diplomatic agreements most beneficial to the stranded Starfleet armada. Kim would have more routes and options for promotion and might even end up switching crews to serve on the Enterprise or Defiant. Chakotay and Sisko will initially be at odds considering Sisko was pretty pissed at the maquis in general. Garak almost immediately susses out Seska’s true identity and motives, and the Kazon never pose the same threat they did to Voyager alone. The stranded armada gets a reputation in the alpha quadrant and only the most powerful or bold alien cultures try to fuck with them. Hell, Data, Geordi, O’Brien, Jadzia and Data probably figure out a way home before the events of the pilot are over. For that matter, how do the Q visits differ if he knows his good friend Jean Luc is with the armada? Does he help subtly or consider this part of his trial of humanity?

What if it were the TOS Enterprise and Kirk’s crew stranded in the Delta Quadrant?
It would feel more like a Western. The Kazon are pretty much TOS era klingons already; the Orions would be the Maquis crew. Somehow Harry Mudd would show up. Seska would have been a Romulan disguised as a Vulcan.

Enterprise D/Picard’s crew?
Q would have rescued them to impress his boycrush Jean-Luc, but only after seven seasons of the crew pretending that they didnt want to be rescued, but this was a perfect oportunity to boldly go where no one has gone before. They would have spent the majority of the time having holodeck adventures, never going down to a planet when not cosmetically disguised as the aliens they're going to meet this week. Ironically Q shows up and they skip the Borg arc. This scinario doubly sucks for Obrien who after making it out of the delta quadrant in TNG, has to relive it all again in "Real Deep Space" 9. in a few seasons.

Defiant/Sisko’s crew + Garak and Quark?
The station is transported, so rather than destroying the caretakers array Sisko positions the station in a stable orbit between it and the planet. Obrien is able to integrate the power systems and figure out how it works so the caretaker's array is essentially the worm hole mark two. Gul Dukat was visiting along with Kai Winn so of course they try to creepy parent the Ocompa but Major Kira is there so she keeps them both in good check. Sisko now has to juggle being the Emmesary to Bejor and the Caretaker of the Array. This is still the best show. They keep finding other changlings around Odo's age who have never known the great link, and in this scinario neither does Odo. Quark becomes the Neelix character, but is actually pretty good about it because he's less insecure and actually a people person; the Kazon continually capture Quark and Odo usually insists that he's too big a security risk to let go. Everyone constantly expects Garak to betray them, and yet continually proves to be the paradoxically most loyal member of the crew. Garak and Odo bond over being the black hats of the crew being able to go outside the rules of the federation, and Sisko knows when to look the other way. Seska turns out to be that one dissident Gul Kamara's long lost daughter and she and Kira become "close" and share the first ever on screen girl girl kiss in Star Trek. Garak and Bashir have a romance. O'Brien continues to suffer at once having an edge in the Gamma Quadrant because he's been here before, but now having to do it knowing that Q wont show up to rescue you at the last minute, Commander Edington betrays the crew to the kazon and Sisko wastes no time going after him, but its a bold move to the kazon who end up giving Edington back to Sisko the series runs for 14 seasons and there is much rejoicing in the land.

NX Enterprise/Archer’s crew?
It's been a long road getting from there to here. This actually turns out to be a holodeck program by Riker, made when the enterprise D also got lost in the Gamma Quadrant. That's why it only lasted five seasons.

SNW Enterprise/Pike’s crew?
Havent seen this one yet.

Cerritos/Freeman’s crew
This would be pure cartoon chaos and I would be there for it. I think this needs to be a season arc on the actual show.

Titan/Riker’s crew?
Riker would finally reveal he's still been secretly Q powered still this whole time and just nopes them back home.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

What if it were the TOS Enterprise and Kirk’s crew stranded in the Delta Quadrant?
It would feel more like a Western. The Kazon are pretty much TOS era klingons already; the Orions would be the Maquis crew. Somehow Harry Mudd would show up. Seska would have been a Romulan disguised as a Vulcan.

Enterprise D/Picard’s crew?
Q would have rescued them to impress his boycrush Jean-Luc, but only after seven seasons of the crew pretending that they didnt want to be rescued, but this was a perfect oportunity to boldly go where no one has gone before. They would have spent the majority of the time having holodeck adventures, never going down to a planet when not cosmetically disguised as the aliens they're going to meet this week. Ironically Q shows up and they skip the Borg arc. This scinario doubly sucks for Obrien who after making it out of the delta quadrant in TNG, has to relive it all again in "Real Deep Space" 9. in a few seasons.

Defiant/Sisko’s crew + Garak and Quark?
The station is transported, so rather than destroying the caretakers array Sisko positions the station in a stable orbit between it and the planet. Obrien is able to integrate the power systems and figure out how it works so the caretaker's array is essentially the worm hole mark two. Gul Dukat was visiting along with Kai Winn so of course they try to creepy parent the Ocompa but Major Kira is there so she keeps them both in good check. Sisko now has to juggle being the Emmesary to Bejor and the Caretaker of the Array. This is still the best show. They keep finding other changlings around Odo's age who have never known the great link, and in this scinario neither does Odo. Quark becomes the Neelix character, but is actually pretty good about it because he's less insecure and actually a people person; the Kazon continually capture Quark and Odo usually insists that he's too big a security risk to let go. Everyone constantly expects Garak to betray them, and yet continually proves to be the paradoxically most loyal member of the crew. Garak and Odo bond over being the black hats of the crew being able to go outside the rules of the federation, and Sisko knows when to look the other way. Seska turns out to be that one dissident Gul Kamara's long lost daughter and she and Kira become "close" and share the first ever on screen girl girl kiss in Star Trek. Garak and Bashir have a romance. O'Brien continues to suffer at once having an edge in the Gamma Quadrant because he's been here before, but now having to do it knowing that Q wont show up to rescue you at the last minute, Commander Edington betrays the crew to the kazon and Sisko wastes no time going after him, but its a bold move to the kazon who end up giving Edington back to Sisko the series runs for 14 seasons and there is much rejoicing in the land.

NX Enterprise/Archer’s crew?
It's been a long road getting from there to here. This actually turns out to be a holodeck program by Riker, made when the enterprise D also got lost in the Gamma Quadrant. That's why it only lasted five seasons.

SNW Enterprise/Pike’s crew?
Havent seen this one yet.

Cerritos/Freeman’s crew
This would be pure cartoon chaos and I would be there for it. I think this needs to be a season arc on the actual show.

Titan/Riker’s crew?
Riker would finally reveal he's still been secretly Q powered still this whole time and just nopes them back home.

Love these and want to see them all made into real shows.

If the Disco goes to the DQ, Burnham cries twice as much each episode, meaning she’s basically always in tears. Tilly becomes the Borg queen. Lorca tries to enlist every sketchy alien they meet. The writers get super lazy and don’t bother to explain why they don’t just spore jump back to the AQ.

 

[The Cat]

so the founders agreed to dukats plans to punish cadasia, because the female changeling told gaak all of cadassia was dead the moment they tied to attack the founders gul dukate became a collaberatorevenif hed lived...he was never gonna be anything but a war criminal

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

so the founders agreed to dukats plans to punish cadasia, because the female changeling told gaak all of cadassia was dead the moment they tied to attack the founders gul dukate became a collaberatorevenif hed lived...he was never gonna be anything but a war criminal

So when the founders sent out their changeling infants to gather intel on the various races of solids [non-sequitir: Voyager really missed an opportunity in not having the crew encounter one of these changelings in the Delta Quadrant; would've been a great crossover], Odo was found by the Bajorans.

When Odo linked with the founders, they would have seen every cruel experience he had at the hands of the Cardassians (i.e. The Cardassian Neck Trick), and they would have been well aware of Dukat's actions during the Occupation. They would have been aware of the Cardiassian's fascist tendencies, and every cruel taunt or discrimination Odo witnessed or experienced. So yeah, they really did have genocide in mind for the Cardassians, eventually. I think they only ever intended them as temporary allies to gain a foothold in the AQ, as it's clear by season 7 they are already on their way to replacing them with the Breen as primary allies/puppets. I think they would've gone easy on The Bajorans, since relative to the Cardassians, they had been nice to Odo and even given him a prominent position in their military (even if on a backwater space station). Probably would have installed a puppet government on Bajor run by some anti-Federation separatist types. Only issue they might take would be with the Bajorans worshiping prophets instead of founders as gods, but maybe even that would be tolerated, as Bajorans would do anything to protect the celestial temple, and that would only be in the founders' best strategic interests.

Perhaps more than any other Alpha Quadrant species, to Founders, the cardassians likely represented solids at their absolute worst. Racist, xenophobic, genocidal, et al.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Tribble of Borg

Tribble of Borg was a non-sentient animal lifeform, a breed of Tribbles that were cybernetically enhanced with Borg technology due to assimilation. (STO - Common Ground mission: "Welcome to Earth Spacedock", C-Store item) The Tribble of Borg was connected to the Borg Collective but not part of...

memory-beta.fandom.com

 

[Totenkindly]

Started watching my 4K of Star Trek: THe Motion Picture (Director's Cut), a version that was remastered I think and rereleased last year. I barely remember anything from the film but Decker and the ending.

One thing I do remember is that I always fell asleep watching it. It was no different here. Robert Wise is a renown director, but man I stopped at literally the midpoint and just went to bed for an hour. It's just the pacing and long lack of motion in the film that is killer. There are some actually good character beats... but basically about 15-20 min of them in 60 minutes of film. It's also kind of hard to watch now, known what happened to Stephen Collins career.

But to briefly leap back to the good -- the visuals in 4K and the remaster are really nice for a late 70's film and despite not having great effects compared to today's effects... and the SOUND palette is amazing. Like, it actually did make me sit up. They have all the sounds positioned across the palette so that it's all directional (and I don't even have a fancy soundsystem -- just a decent soundbar and subwoofer, but no satellites), and there's depth and richness and texture to the sound. Like seriously, that seems to be the highest point of the film remaster so far. I was actually looking around because some particular sounds appeared to be happening spatially off in different directions as per what was on the screen. Really cool.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Started watching my 4K of Star Trek: THe Motion Picture (Director's Cut), a version that was remastered I think and rereleased last year. I barely remember anything from the film but Decker and the ending.

One thing I do remember is that I always fell asleep watching it. It was no different here. Robert Wise is a renown director, but man I stopped at literally the midpoint and just went to bed for an hour. It's just the pacing and long lack of motion in the film that is killer. There are some actually good character beats... but basically about 15-20 min of them in 60 minutes of film. It's also kind of hard to watch now, known what happened to Stephen Collins career.

But to briefly leap back to the good -- the visuals in 4K and the remaster are really nice for a late 70's film and despite not having great effects compared to today's effects... and the SOUND palette is amazing. Like, it actually did make me sit up. They have all the sounds positioned across the palette so that it's all directional (and I don't even have a fancy soundsystem -- just a decent soundbar and subwoofer, but no satellites), and there's depth and richness and texture to the sound. Like seriously, that seems to be the highest point of the film remaster so far. I was actually looking around because some particular sounds appeared to be happening spatially off in different directions as per what was on the screen. Really cool.

I think it's a great film in the first and third act. the second act is the problem. I do think Kirk and Spock have pretty solid arcs (contrary to a common criticism that everyone is wooden and lacking in development). Kirk begins the film stiff and uncomfortable. He loosens up just a tad when Bones returns, a bit more when Spock arrives, and by the end he's back to his old Kirk self. It was never really about him getting his command back, it was about getting his family back.

I always joke and refer to Decker as commander sex offender when we watch it. Little known fact is that Ilea was a teenager by Deltan standards

 

[The Cat]

Ive tried and tried and tried, but I have never seen the middle of the motion pictue. I fall asleep. Its very relaxing.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Ive tried and tried and tried, but I have never seen the middle of the motion pictue. I fall asleep. Its very relaxing.

Act 2 could’ve used a lot of editing. I think from Spock’s spacewalk on, the film gets much better, because answers are coming and the plot is moving forward again. The final part when they’re in the away mission to the Voyager probe is Trek through-and-through. The end scene on the bridge feels like a TOS episode.

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah, forgot to note I finished it over the weekend.

yes, act II is rough. Once the Ilia probe appears, things kick back in. I think some of the shots are really cool looking, and I also think that it does a great job of making space look vast. However, there's no narrative there to move it forward, it's like someone filming a really long car ride with nothing going on and not editing it to show interesting bits or focus on conversation or something of interest.

I was thinking a bit about it yesterday and just like how there was the seed of a really interesting story there, but it felt like they never workshopped it out. Like some great character bits that were never fully realized.

• - I'm a little lost on why Spock was acting weird, but maybe I missed some dialogue.
• - Kirk was made an admiral but wanted a ship again (this is explored in later films much better). I like his abrasiveness.
• I like how Bones challenges Jim regularly throughout the film.
• The transporter incident is kind of creepy cool but not much else comes from it.
• - Decker is a great foil at first, then kind of just gets pushed back into shadow. Why did Decker leave Ilia? But the biggest thing is that a crux of the film is Decker's choice at the end. They could have really dug into this more int he film and set up character beats to show his dissatisfaction and internal yearning for something more, etc., but also then stressed things holding him in place like living up to a parent's ideal of his career or something else... so that when he makes that decision it would be something really impactful. Instead it kind of just creeps up and comes out of left field a bit.

So basically some decent ideas but execution problems. It needed a script doctor.

 

[The Cat]

Season 5 episode 25 in the cards....Weyoun and Dr Geiger fucked. I want that zine how Dr Geiger finally achieves it, only to lose weyoun, but then he figures out a way to get Weyoun back, and that becomes his quest, becuase who wants to live forever withouy your lavender eyed twinky boyfriend...

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Yeah, forgot to note I finished it over the weekend.

yes, act II is rough. Once the Ilia probe appears, things kick back in. I think some of the shots are really cool looking, and I also think that it does a great job of making space look vast. However, there's no narrative there to move it forward, it's like someone filming a really long car ride with nothing going on and not editing it to show interesting bits or focus on conversation or something of interest.

I was thinking a bit about it yesterday and just like how there was the seed of a really interesting story there, but it felt like they never workshopped it out. Like some great character bits that were never fully realized.

• - I'm a little lost on why Spock was acting weird, but maybe I missed some dialogue.
• - Kirk was made an admiral but wanted a ship again (this is explored in later films much better). I like his abrasiveness.
• I like how Bones challenges Jim regularly throughout the film.
• The transporter incident is kind of creepy cool but not much else comes from it.
• - Decker is a great foil at first, then kind of just gets pushed back into shadow. Why did Decker leave Ilia? But the biggest thing is that a crux of the film is Decker's choice at the end. They could have really dug into this more int he film and set up character beats to show his dissatisfaction and internal yearning for something more, etc., but also then stressed things holding him in place like living up to a parent's ideal of his career or something else... so that when he makes that decision it would be something really impactful. Instead it kind of just creeps up and comes out of left field a bit.

So basically some decent ideas but execution problems. It needed a script doctor.

Roddenberry was not a great writer. He should have gotten DC Fontana or David Gerrold to polish the story.