Random Politics Thread

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Slash it! Slash it! Slash it!

Lot of mixed feelings here. On the one hand, my girlfriend is a huge Bernie bro, and I hate to see her disappointed. On the other hand people like cece are also Bernie bro's and I love seeing them disappointed. If Bernie won the dem nom celebration would last until he got crushed by trump in November which might be even more devastating. On the one hand his chances of beating trump are way less than Biden's, but on the other hand even the chance that he might win the presidency at this point in my life (working/saving years) is horrifying.

Q: What does any of your usual ranting about Bernie and socialism have to do with conservation?

A: Fuck all, because I wasn't even talking about Bernie.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Our lousy politicians need to fix it so I don't have to reset all my clocks twice a year.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

. On the one hand his chances of beating trump are way less than Biden's, but on the other hand even the chance that he might win the presidency at this point in my life (working/saving years) is horrifying.

I thought you were for whoever had the biggest ideas, though.

 

[Red Herring]

Anyone remember when conservatives were actually interested in conservationism?

Conservatives are currently a rare sight within the GOP.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

Slash it! Slash it! Slash it!

Lot of mixed feelings here. On the one hand, my girlfriend is a huge Bernie bro, and I hate to see her disappointed. On the other hand people like cece are also Bernie bro's and I love seeing them disappointed. If Bernie won the dem nom celebration would last until he got crushed by trump in November which might be even more devastating. On the one hand his chances of beating trump are way less than Biden's, but on the other hand even the chance that he might win the presidency at this point in my life (working/saving years) is horrifying.

I would start by telling your girlfriend that Bernie got some things right. Many of the problems that he has identified are correct. It's the solutions that are wrong. College tuition prices will increase under him, because he's adding more government to it when it should be less. The government intervention is why it is expensive in the first place.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Conservation movement - Wikipedia

con·ser·va·tion

1.
prevention of wasteful use of a resource.
"the government must take action to promote energy conservation"
preservation, protection, or restoration of the natural environment and of wildlife.
"nature conservation"
h
Similar:
preservation


protection


safeguarding


safe keeping


keeping


guarding


saving


looking after

care


charge


custody


guardianship


husbandry


supervision


upkeep


keeping up

keeping going

keeping alive

maintenance


repair


restoration


ecology


environmentalism

preservation and repair of archaeological, historical, and cultural sites and artifacts.
"the artworks in the collection need indexing and conservation"
2.
Physics
the principle by which the total value of a physical quantity or parameter (such as energy, mass, linear or angular momentum) remains constant in a system which is not subject to external influence.

 

[Red Herring]

 

[Tennessee Jed]

Anyone remember when conservatives were actually interested in conservationism?

Hunting clubs, sportsmen's clubs, rod-and-gun clubs - They generally tend to be conservative in nature due to gun-owners being the biggest constituency. But they all also tend to be heavy into nature conservation: Hunters and fishers need pristine lands where they can hunt and fish, so they lobby Congress to have nature areas protected from development so that they can do their thing.

I've belonged to a couple gun clubs, and they each had a nature conservation element to them. I belonged to the Izaak Walton League of America for many years, and the conservation element is right at the center of the organization. Their website is so typically "green" in appearance that it will fool you: You have to look around the website a bit to realize that they want nature preserved specifically for purposes of hunting and fishing. But in any case they've done a lot at the national level dating back to the 1920s to get nature areas set aside for hunting and fishing.

Historically, hunters and fishers have spearheaded the nature conservation movement and have been its most effective advocates. They were into protecting parklands and nature preserves a century or more before today's green movements even existed.

 

[Grand Admiral Crunch]

I would start by telling your girlfriend that Bernie got some things right. Many of the problems that he has identified are correct. It's the solutions that are wrong. College tuition prices will increase under him, because he's adding more government to it when it should be less. The government intervention is why it is expensive in the first place.

[MENTION=20035]anticlimatic[/MENTION] Btw, I wouldn't dump all this on her at once. I would phase it in slowly. I'd be like "Yeah, all that corruption and corporations buying politicians needs to stop. It really makes me mad. I really want to screw over this immoral billionaires for buying the government that should be subservient to me. We need to take from them, because they took it from us first.....But sometimes, I wonder about Bernie. Is he like that lady in the Hunger Games who was just doing a regime change? I mean, the things we know about him....."

Can't really say for sure how I'd talk to her. I'd have to know her and watch her reactions to what I'm saying. Anyways, I just wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't suggesting you straighten her all out at once.

 

[The Cat]

Hunting clubs, sportsmen's clubs, rod-and-gun clubs - They generally tend to be conservative in nature due to gun-owners being the biggest constituency. But they all also tend to be heavy into nature conservation: Hunters and fishers need pristine lands where they can hunt and fish, so they lobby Congress to have nature areas protected from development so that they can do their thing.

I've belonged to a couple gun clubs, and they each had a nature conservation element to them. I belonged to the Izaak Walton League of America for many years, and the conservation element is right at the center of the organization. Their website is so typically "green" in appearance that it will fool you: You have to look around the website a bit to realize that they want nature preserved specifically for purposes of hunting and fishing. But in any case they've done a lot at the national level dating back to the 1920s to get nature areas set aside for hunting and fishing.

Historically, hunters and fishers have spearheaded the nature conservation movement and have been its most effective advocates. They were into protecting parklands and nature preserves a century or more before today's green movements even existed.

Where I live hunters and fishermen are the only groups that really seem to be fighting for conservation here outside of some of the bigger businesses pay lip service while making everything worse.

 

[Jaguar]

If you're going to go on TV and make your Bernie Bro demands, at least you could refrain from making an ass of yourself regarding cash bail. It's right on Joe's website: End. Cash. Bail. Perhaps reading is just too much to ask of you people. If you're not bitching about something at a high fevered pitch, you're not happy. As for demanding criminals in prison be allowed to vote? You must have been one of those nuts who threw your panties at incarcerated serial killers and then proposed marriage.

 

[Red Herring]

As for demanding criminals in prison be allowed to vote? You must have been one of those nuts who threw your panties at incarcerated serial killers and then proposed marriage.

Actually, that is normal in many other countries around the world.

International Comparison of Felon Voting Laws - Felon Voting - ProCon.org

Of the 45 industrialized countries listed, 21 (including most of Europe) have no voting restictions whatsoever for inmates. 14 can place some restrictions under special circumstances while in prison and 10 countries ban voting while in prison but allow it afterwards. Only 4 countries do not allow ex-prisoners to vote after their release (the USA is included here among those 4 even though laws differ from state to state).

The USA not only have the highest incarceration rate, they also treat their prisoners harder than most other free, developed nations (and are the only Western democracy to use the death penalty, but that is another story).

Can Prisoners Vote in Other Countries? Bernie Sanders Wants Felons to Cast Ballots While Incarcerated

The United Nations Human Rights Committee has previously condemned the U.S. for permitting states to ban those with past felony convictions from voting. The U.S. "should adopt appropriate measures to ensure that states restore voting rights to citizens who have fully served their sentences and those who have been released on parole," the committee said in 2006. It argued that disenfranchisement laws were discriminatory and violated international law.

Morales-Doyle also pointed out that some of the existing state laws regarding felons' right to vote were actually passed with the intent to target minorities. For a wealthy and developed nation, the U.S. has an exceptionally high rate of incarceration, and minorities are disproportionately represented within the country's prison population.

The U.S. makes up about 5 percent of the world's population but has 21 percent of the world's prisoners, according to the NAACP's website, which also points out that "African Americans are incarcerated at more than five times the rate of whites."

Similar reasoning, a little more polished: Why Can’t Prisoners Vote? | Current Affairs

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Derp

 

[Maou]

Anyone who thinks Bernie can beat the machine, is risking everything. Welcome to Trump's world if you win mofo.

Anyone else noticing the censorship of Bernie bros?

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I dunno.

One thing I’m tired of is the criticism “why doesn’t he run as an independent/third party candidate?”

As if independent candidates can have a real shot anyway.

It’s pretty brilliant though, how he has effectively waged a third party campaign through the democratic primary process. Even if he loses, he still kind of wins. He’s made history and I don’t think future insurgent candidates will give up or step aside without a fight. If nothing else, they’ll keep making these entitled neoliberal candidates actually have to work to win their primaries. People also blame him for being divisive, but I think he’s encouraged more inclusivity of ideas in the Democratic Party. He himself isn't telling his supporters to leave the dem party if he loses, that's just a chunk of his supporters making that call (I myself wouldn't see it as leaving if I don't vote for Joe, as I'm not a member of the dem party to begin with and owe Biden nothing if he is nominated). He’s already inspired an army of young progressives to run for office. This is how he still wins in the end, and it’s a win that will far exceed the winning of presidential nomination

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Actually, that is normal in many other countries around the world.

International Comparison of Felon Voting Laws - Felon Voting - ProCon.org

Of the 45 industrialized countries listed, 21 (including most of Europe) have no voting restictions whatsoever for inmates. 14 can place some restrictions under special circumstances while in prison and 10 countries ban voting while in prison but allow it afterwards. Only 4 countries do not allow ex-prisoners to vote after their release (the USA is included here among those 4 even though laws differ from state to state).

The USA not only have the highest incarceration rate, they also treat their prisoners harder than most other free, developed nations (and are the only Western democracy to use the death penalty, but that is another story).

Can Prisoners Vote in Other Countries? Bernie Sanders Wants Felons to Cast Ballots While Incarcerated



Similar reasoning, a little more polished: Why Can’t Prisoners Vote? | Current Affairs

They are citizens, therefore they still deserve a vote.

 

[Vendrah]

I think that many people already know typing websites, as well as we have a typing area in typology central as well.

I have been thinking that typing is one way to know if the politician isnt wearing way too much masks.

From politicians typing pages, some politicians seems to have a general agreement on type (like 80% of voters/posters or more). For example, there is a general consensus that Donald Trump is ESTP. For some other politicans, there is sometimes a disagreement in one letter and thats fine. By looking at tests, borderline is normal. Although in these times people can even start fights out of it and things can get ugly because of one MBTI axis.. But when people say that politician 1 is type A, another type B, another type C, then thats a concern. Thats means that it is quite likely that we perceive the politician very differently and the politician "picture" in our minds is very different, meaning that the politician character is inconsistent, and therefore something is wrong.

However, the politican character can be a lot dynamic and that not always means that he is wearing too much masks. And another risk is the politician have a single and very well executed mask. So, there are risks in this approach.

And, of course, the consistency of character is just a supplement to other more important criteria. But in doubt, it is something interesting to look for. The politician I vote last time (he didnt made to the finals) have very different typings, from ESTJ to ENTP. Thats a good reason to me to migrate next time.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I think that many people already know typing websites, as well as we have a typing area in typology central as well.

I have been thinking that typing is one way to know if the politician isnt wearing way too much masks.

From politicians typing pages, some politicians seems to have a general agreement on type (like 80% of voters/posters or more). For example, there is a general consensus that Donald Trump is ESTP. For some other politicans, there is sometimes a disagreement in one letter and thats fine. By looking at tests, borderline is normal. Although in these times people can even start fights out of it and things can get ugly because of one MBTI axis.. But when people say that politician 1 is type A, another type B, another type C, then thats a concern. Thats means that it is quite likely that we perceive the politician very differently and the politician "picture" in our minds is very different, meaning that the politician character is inconsistent, and therefore something is wrong.

However, the politican character can be a lot dynamic and that not always means that he is wearing too much masks. And another risk is the politician have a single and very well executed mask. So, there are risks in this approach.

And, of course, the consistency of character is just a supplement to other more important criteria. But in doubt, it is something interesting to look for. The politician I vote last time (he didnt made to the finals) have very different typings, from ESTJ to ENTP. Thats a good reason to me to migrate next time.

What do you think Biden's, Bernie's and Tulsi's types are?

 

[Vendrah]

What do you think Biden's, Bernie's and Tulsi's types are?

I dont know well any of these guys. Im not american, Im not into US politics that well, except with the part that the word is kind of bombarder by these media. However, I did had a look at personality-database (I quit that community because even a troll was more praised then my opinions from alternative points of view; Its kind of a joke NPs being so much attached to Ti-Ne-Si-Fe...):

Biden:
ESFJ (76/141 votes)
ENFJ (42/141)
ESFP (9/141)
6w7 (28/29)

Bernie (out of 395):
INTJ (194)
ENFJ (58)
ENTJ (49)

1w9 (48/87)
1w2 (29)

Tulsi, Tulsi Gabbard? Out of 55
ISTJ (33)
ESTJ (14)
INTJ (3)

1w9(14/15)

I look at these typings carefully. That website follows the E/I concept that is not the one used by official MBTI. Politicians have very extraverted activities all the time, have to express themselves, and etc... so they would be, in the social concept, extraverts. However, in the second concept of E/I, which is the one they use without realizing, is that if the person is "oriented by the object [objective]" or "oriented by the subject [subjective]". I even made a compilation of stupid funny comments from that website in [MENTION=40271]mancino[/MENTION] type me thread. Im usually lazy to the point where I prefer to go to the website to see type instead of thinking to myself. However, sometimes they do some typings that seems to be horrendous innaccurate. I mostly agree with them in most typings, although for very different reasons.

Since they are using enneagram and MBTI without being really aware of connections between MBTI and enneagram except on a surface level, it is a quite advantage to know that connections to evaluate their typings. 6w7 is way closer to ESFJ then ENFJ.

I also remember [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] mentioning somewhere that he thinks Biden is INTJ as well? Im not sure.
Putting polls on these "celebrity/famous types" is a good ideia, not that I think off, that could help even on those type me threads.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I also remember [MENTION=8936]highlander[/MENTION] mentioning somewhere that he thinks Biden is INTJ as well?

Oh lord, he needs to explain that typing. Convince me. I think Biden's likely an ExFJ myself.