Random Politics Thread

[Virtual ghost]

These must be trying times for you, but be brave.
​

The funny thing is that I even remember that scene.

 

[ceecee]

Are you going to say the same thing if Democrats take issue with Trump pardoning all the Jan 6 goons? Because he surely will now (I mean he probably would have anyway, but this gives him a free pass).

Personally, I feel the Presidential pardon power is completely inane. I have no idea how it ever came to be. I suspect the 'founding fathers' wanted a get of jail free pass to cover their own asses should they ever run afoul of the law. This power makes a mockery of the notion everybody is equal under the law and nobody is above it. Any sort of "clemency" argument carries no weight in my opinion. Appeal to the courts, sure, allow one individual to pick and choose at his will, stupid.

He was going to anyway. This is from July.

Donald Trump says again he would 'absolutely' pardon Jan. 6 rioters

Trump, who faces criminal charges for his actions in the lead-up to the attack on the U.S. Capitol, said Jan. 6 defendants were "convicted by a very tough system."

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Stigmata]

anyone who thinks Donald Trump has ever given a shit about optics or justification is very naive.

Trump was always going to pardon the Jan 6ers, and has mentioned so several times over the last few years.

Secondly, Trump pardoned the likes of Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, and others who have actively aided in undermining democracy. Trump even pardoned his son in law’s Father, Charles Kushner, who basically blackmailed his own brother-in-law, and then later gave him an ambassador position. Where as the outrage then? Where was CNN’s finger wagging then?

Not only that, Biden mainly pardoned his son in the way that he did to protect him from a Trump administration that is hell-bent on revenge at every level, and has told us explicitly that they plan to exact revenge on Trump’s political opponents, and plans to appoint straight up psychopaths to cabinet positions in order to do so. In a world that made sense, I wouldn’t like this pardon either, but we are so far beyond that sense of normalcy, and Trump hasn’t even officially taken office yet.

It seems like most of the country has bought into the notion that Democrats are held to a higher standard and anytime they fail to meet said standard they deserve admonishment, whereas Republicans can literally do whatever they want and it’s just expected and there’s no reason to call it out or be upset because that’s just the Republican Party.

 

[Stigmata]

Republicans: Joe Biden pardoning his Son is just another example of the lawlessness pervasive within the Democrat Party

Also Republicans:

 

[SensEye]

All I can say is the Democrats and Biden (who repeatedly said he would not pardon his son, or his mouthpiece Karine Jean-Pierre did) have lost ALL the moral high ground. Sure Trump is a scumbag, so that makes it OK for Biden to be a scumbag too?

Absolutely despicable on all sides. All president's can just do as they please from here on forward I guess. Democrats love to go on endlessly about what a fascist, crooked, liar Trump is but will never look at themselves in the mirror.

It's going to be a bunch of pot calling the kettle black from here on I suppose. It also implies the justice system in the US is pretty much out the window. If this Patel guy could find further dirt on Hunter, and make it stick in court, so be it. If there is no dirt and he can just order a judge to convict him, the US might as well be Russia/Putin. Same shit goes on over there all the time. Is this the new norm for the US as well?

Dark days if so. I stand by my assertion that the power of clemency must be stripped from the presidency. The office has clearly been corrupted.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I understand why the voters of the Democratic party are upset about all of this. I really do.


However I am also under the impression that people due to current social atmosphere don't see what I would define as "the big picture". It is true, Republicans won. However they have sent their strongest face into the race and barely won against a candidate that Democrats had to pull out of the hat due to circumstances. Republican and the public discourse is constantly pushing this idea that this is some kind of historic landslide. While in reality Trump got the swing states by a point or two. House is currently 220 vs 214 (while one seat is still in the air and it leans D). In the senate it is 53 vs. 47, since Republicans had very very favorable map on their side. Because all competitive seats were basically on the defense for the Democrats. I mean what they flipped ? West Virginia, the Trump 30+ state where Democrats shouldn't even have a senate seat. The same goes for Montana, which is just Trump 20+ state. Ohio is also evidently a red state at this point. What means that the only "genuine" flip was Pennsylvania. What was by tilt margin and simply because so much money was invested into this state. While out of competitive governor races New Hampshire went red and North Caroline went blue. Therefore overall this was quite mild victory when you go into details.



What actually leads to the big picture.
They have thrown their strongest card by far and just barely managed to get through. But the mother of all questions is "what is actually the follow up of all this?" Trump will soon be 80 and simply can't be genuinely replaced. Generic Republicans aren't really electable anymore country wide. Just about everything suggests that what is coming will be a complete disaster made on evident political incompetency. Generational changes will continue no matter what, since that is just biology. If Ukraine remain standing the whole trolling thing from abroad may not be there any more. Climate change will only get worse with time .... etc. Therefore I really do think that the question of "follow up" is totally legit if we consider how all the pieces are spread over the board. Republicans got the shoot until 2026 to try changing something but that is kinda it. Especially in the case that the next 2 years will be a disaster to the degree as it seems for now. What means that there isn't sound long term plan behind any of this. So if next 2 years can be survived the odds are that Republicans will become kinda none electable due to all the baggage and generational changes. What means that they will be forced to genuinely evolve and modernize. What is a form of political bankruptcy. Which is actually fairly likely since there is no sound follow up behind any of this. Especially since baby boomers are getting out of the picture due to age. The tectonic shift that is just starting to come into the picture, because that generation is now between 79 and 64 years old. While older and truly conservative generations will simply disappear completely. This is indeed kinda politically incorrect argument to use but the demographic is what actually decides all of this.


So yeah, I think that you guys are kinda too gloomy about all of this. If we were talking about a band all of this could be considered to be the start of "farewell tour".

I disagree. What stops generic Republicans from becoming Trump republicans? Principle? Remember all the "never Trumpers" the first time around?

If they think it would help them politically, I'd place a hundred on them doing it in a heartbeat.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Are you going to say the same thing if Democrats take issue with Trump pardoning all the Jan 6 goons? Because he surely will now (I mean he probably would have anyway, but this gives him a free pass).

Personally, I feel the Presidential pardon power is completely inane. I have no idea how it ever came to be. I suspect the 'founding fathers' wanted a get of jail free pass to cover their own asses should they ever run afoul of the law. This power makes a mockery of the notion everybody is equal under the law and nobody is above it. Any sort of "clemency" argument carries no weight in my opinion. Appeal to the courts, sure, allow one individual to pick and choose at his will, stupid.

I think you are overlooking the fact that if the President couldn't pardon, he would have absolutely nothing to do on Thanksgiving. You have to anticipate unforeseen consequences like this.

More seriously, if you want to talk about the corruption of the Presidency, I would refer back to Gerald Ford pardoning Nixon. IMO, that set a precedent of permissiveness that enabled all the bad behavior of subsequent presidents. I would say that in the abstract that the power to pardon probably shouldn't exist. While there are legitimate uses for certain individuals, it seems to do nothing more than facilitate corruption and encourage corrosive behavior.

Like with so many things, good lucking getting that to change practically speaking.

 

[Stigmata]

All I can say is the Democrats and Biden (who repeatedly said he would not pardon his son, or his mouthpiece Karine Jean-Pierre did) have lost ALL the moral high ground. Sure Trump is a scumbag, so that makes it OK for Biden to be a scumbag too?

Absolutely despicable on all sides. All president's can just do as they please from here on forward I guess. Democrats love to go on endlessly about what a fascist, crooked, liar Trump is but will never look at themselves in the mirror.

It's going to be a bunch of pot calling the kettle black from here on I suppose. It also implies the justice system in the US is pretty much out the window. If this Patel guy could find further dirt on Hunter, and make it stick in court, so be it. If there is no dirt and he can just order a judge to convict him, the US might as well be Russia/Putin. Same shit goes on over there all the time. Is this the new norm for the US as well?

Dark days if so. I stand by my assertion that the power of clemency must be stripped from the presidency. The office has clearly been corrupted.

How do I change the channel from CNN? Is that you, Jake Tapper?

 

[Virtual ghost]

I disagree. What stops generic Republicans from becoming Trump republicans? Principle? Remember all the "never Trumpers" the first time around?

If they think it would help them politically, I'd place a hundred on them doing it in a heartbeat.

I think you misunderstood that part. If generic Republicans go full Trump they are no longer generic Republicans. The point was that the party can't really go back after the current era of the party (especially due to demographic changes). While at the same time they can't really replace Trump that is almost 80. Since the guy is very specific in what he represents. Therefore the argument was that the current situation can't last. There is no sound follow up to anything that is going on.

 

[The Cat]

How do I change the channel from CNN? Is that you, Jake Tapper?

Jake Tapper looks like Agent Smith if he were super happy to be in the Matrix. Your comparison works on many levels.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Of course, my story about "follow up" is based on the premise that things will remain even remotely normal.

South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol declares martial law.

 

[The Cat]

I think they're just jealous on Fox that their own dads don't love them enough to pardon them.
I just hope he got his passport updated too.
It never fails to surprise that people can look into the mirror with a straight face and carry water for republicans when they don't have to.
At the end of the day all Hunter Biden ever has been to anyone making a stink about this is a way to try to hurt his father without directly laying on hands.


My biggest beef is that dems have made this their foundation for the defense of america. Dems need to quit hiding behind the letter of the law, and start doing the heavy lifting of abiding by the spirit of it. Because republicans don't give a damn about either an inch further than using it as a cudgel.
​

 

[The Cat]

Of course, my story about "follow up" is based on the premise that things will remain even remotely normal.

South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol declares martial law.

I figure we're gonna learn a lot about the rules of acquisition in the coming weeks, months, and years. Especially Rule 34.

 

[Virtual ghost]

I figure we're gonna learn a lot about the rules of acquisition in the coming weeks, months, and years. Especially Rule 34.

The catch is more in the logic:
"If the guy in South Korea can do it then I can do it as well. It isn't that we don't have a problem with inner enemy and messy parliament."


Therefore watching what will happen over there in incoming days may be quite telling where things are going.

 

[The Cat]

The catch is more in the logic:
"If the guy in South Korea can do it then I can do it as well. It isn't that we don't have a problem with inner enemy and messy parliament."


Therefore watching what will happen over there in incoming days may be quite telling where things are going.

Yes, I just wish it wasnt quite as a hell of a catch as it seems to be. But I guess this is why we'll always have moonshiners, because the world could collectively use the length of a pint to pause and reflect.

 

[ygolo]

Of course, my story about "follow up" is based on the premise that things will remain even remotely normal.

South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol declares martial law.

Oh sh*t!

South Korean president declares martial law, accusing opposition of anti-state activity

South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol has declared martial law vowing to eliminate “anti-state” forces as he struggles against the opposition that controls the country’s parliament and which he accuses of sympathizing with communist North Korea.

apnews.com

 

[Virtual ghost]

South Korean president declares martial law in shock late-night address

Martial Law Commander Army General Park An-soo announced that all media would now be under military censorship and that political activities are banned.

Saying that this is "serious" is complete understatement.

 

[The Cat]

Happens quick when it happens when it comes right down to it.
​

Good luck everyone.

 

[Virtual ghost]

The original story broke out but after that the details are pretty scarce. What suggests that there is chaos in the whole structure of SK and nothing is really known.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

The fillow

I think you misunderstood that part. If generic Republicans go full Trump they are no longer generic Republicans. The point was that the party can't really go back after the current era of the party (especially due to demographic changes). While at the same time they can't really replace Trump that is almost 80. Since the guy is very specific in what he represents. Therefore the argument was that the current situation can't last. There is no sound follow up to anything that is going on.

I suppose the question is whether the party can survive or evolve without him. I think they can, and I'm inclined to think that in 15 years, the Democrats will be praising Trump as an example of when the GOP used to be sane.

I mean I've heard the case made so many times that the GOP is now "dead", whatever that was supposed to mean. The GOP seems pretty persistent, and I think the kind of opposition they usually have doesn't help.