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Random Politics Thread

The Cat

The Cat in the Tinfoil Hat..
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What Trump did in 2020 was evidently wrong. However what democrats did in 2016 with the story about hacking elections and various frauds was also wrong.


All I am saying that this shouldn't become a tradition, because if it does the country is finished. I am sorry but I am simply under impression that you are all playing very dangerous game.
TBPH I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed and we're fucked when it comes to putting the peices back together again the way we were. At this point I'm just hoping people don't panic enough that the reboot ends up being pretty watchable. So to speak.
 

Virtual ghost

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The election hacking issue related primarily to entities outside the US, and this remains a serious concern. Even in the election just held, foreign entities were found trying to hack into the campaign offices, and to spread disinformation to create unrest and possibly promote a desired result. The government needed both more transparency and more aggressive response, the first to reassure voters that the system is secure by saying more about the measures taken to keep it so; the second to counter and where possible prosecute the hackers/intruders. Perhaps the response was sufficiently robust, just conducted understandably out of the public eye, but saying more about it would reinforce that reassurance to voters, that election results would not be compromised. If a candidate for office were complicit in such attempts, that should be investigated and made public.

That was just a part of it, since there was plenty of "He isn't legitimate president" in the whole mix. The democrats never genuinely accepted what happened in 2016.


I understand that people are frustrated beyond any kind of normal levels. However for me this is simply the game that isn't worth it. Especially since I actually had to go though violent implosion of state as kid. Plus to be honest that was all basically because half of the country couldn't stand "that guy". People have the right to believe what they want but in my book all of this just isn't worth it. All people should just stop before it it truly too late. Because when shit truly hits the news from bigger US cities will look like those from Ukraine. Modern civil war is much more devastating than it was in those romantic days of 1860s. The firepower is simply incomparable. Therefore in my book this just isn't worth it for anyone in the country. If people indeed have too much extra energy focus that on some dictator overseas or your own local crime problems. There really is enough work for everyone.
 

Virtual ghost

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TBPH I'm pretty sure that ship has sailed and we're fucked when it comes to putting the peices back together again the way we were. At this point I'm just hoping people don't panic enough that the reboot ends up being pretty watchable. So to speak.

Perhaps, but that just wouldn't stop me from saying what is on my mind. :)
 
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If there's that kind of organization taking place and it as government money and validation, is there any counter-organization taking place and were would it get its resources from?
I have no idea, although I vaguely remember ICE trying to start something like this in Chicago and failing. That's mentioned in the article.
 
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That was just a part of it, since there was plenty of "He isn't legitimate president" in the whole mix. The democrats never genuinely accepted what happened in 2016.
Some people said that because they were hooked on the idea that he didn't win the popular vote in 2016. I don't understand why this matters in any practical sense. Who does it matter who the "legitimate" president if they aren't the one who gets to make decisions? I think it has to do with them wanting to hold on to certain concepts about the inherent goodness of Americans and the perfection of American democracy. (The latter is ironic, since the part that has them upset is a core feature of American democracy since its inception. They put it in there, because they a large amount of them didn't trust the common people.) I want the rules to be different as well, but going beyond this to proclaim that different rules apply because that's the way the system should work is an entirely different thing.

If you can't talk to some people about Trump getting elected, if you can't pose the question of why that happened, without someone angrily shouting going "Trump isn't the president!", that's a problem. That isn't actually helpful, because the conversation is not about what went wrong in 2016, which is a conversation that should be had. Instead it becomes about who the "legitimate" president is, which is just pissing into the wind. It's like GOT; it doesn't matter who has the legitimate claim, what matters is who sits the throne.
 

Virtual ghost

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I'm always glad you do. I enjoy your sense of humor. And you and Red Herring always post lots of useful intel for understanding yall's system over there.

My point was simply that: if the media are constantly talking about "rabbit hole" for years, if you have back and forth fears about rabbit hole, if you have trouble sleeping, if your family talks about rabbit hole a lot, if you see a lot of ads and movies about rabbit holes ..... the odds are that this will create self fulfilling prophecy and you will indeed fall into rabbit hole in the end.

This is why I advise caution on the matter.
Self fulfilling prophecies are one of the greatest mind traps there are.
 

The Cat

The Cat in the Tinfoil Hat..
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My point was simply that: if the media are constantly talking about "rabbit hole" for years, if you have back and forth fears about rabbit hole, if you have trouble sleeping, if your family talks about rabbit hole a lot, if you see a lot of ads and movies about rabbit holes ..... the odds are that this will create self fulfilling prophecy and you will indeed fall into rabbit hole in the end.

This is why I advise caution on the matter.
Self fulfilling prophecies are one of the greatest mind traps there are.
Like Cave diving.
 

Totenkindly

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I dunno, it would be cool to awaken the Watcher in the Water or some other Nameless Thing.
Yeah, so cool to get lost while cave diving or be yanked down by the Watcher, lol...

Is it more horrific than Trump being president again?
Ready, Set -- DEBATE
 

ceecee

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Totenkindly

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So he resigns from Congress. Then drops out of the AG thing. Now he's doing cameo's for $500/each. Grifters gonna grift and dumbasses gonna pay.
I'm not surprised he's doing it.
I just personally can't understand the shamelessness of someone like him.
Like, it's just embarrassing -- or should be.
Have some self-respect.
 

Lark

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I have no idea, although I vaguely remember ICE trying to start something like this in Chicago and failing. That's mentioned in the article.

It sounds like community policing initiatives, I can understand trying to change a culture to be less receptive to whatever the agencies have been set up to counter and I can understand that a sort of "mobilization" like this can be part of that culture change initiative but a lot of the time it smacks of cheapening whatever it is and hoping that people will take care of it all for free, on their own time, the problem with relying on volunteers is that you get volunteers, if that makes sense, and that's if you agree with whatever it is to begin with.

Breeding a culture which is hostile to rights, permits state salaried individuals to shirk their duties and act less accountably, I think that's a problem the world over at the minute, in almost any sphere besides immigration too.

Ultimately, whether its immigration or anything else, I think all this stuff amounts to "tinkering around the edges", the actions are hiding a "greater neglect", its not simply a "piece meal" approach or reflection of resources or whatever, that only accounts for part of it. People dont genuinely feel its an issue, or they are doing just enough to satisfy themselves or others that they can go on neglecting whatever it happens to be. Like the alcoholic who is sure to go to AA meetings but will definitely be in the bar the rest of the time. It is very definitely what politicians are doing, very definitely what the politicians or populists who dont believe in democracy or accountability in the first place are doing. I dont think that's "simple cynicism" to state that.

The issue of illegal immigration and displacements are about money, its a trade as reprehensible as the slave trade, which I think left wingers should be just as concerned about even if for very different reasons than the racists who just hate the sight of the people who're duped, coerced or otherwise caught up in the racket. I also wonder about the states from which all these individuals come, are they not suffering for the sudden exit happening? Are there any consequences for them if they know about it and do little or nothing to arrest it? Are they fine with the criminal elements organizing it all on their turf? Again its that issue of neglect, and they probably are getting kick backs, money or menaces play a part, but if there was state building attempted to counter drug harvesting, terrorist infestations or the like in the past why not something like that now? I know a lot of the bone heads are nationalists and cant see beyond their borders (often the end of their road, literally) or dont want to be bothered looking beyond that (again the neglect) but something should change about that.
 

Lark

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The UK government has said if the war criminals from Israel arrive in the UK they wll be arrested.

I think they couldnt say much else as they said they would arrest Putin et al if they visited, I cant help but think there's a sort of testing of loyalties or relationships going on here, I dont think its an accident that two similarly military aggressive campaigns ignited simultaneously, or virtually simultaneously, in different parts of the world how they did.
 

The Cat

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Stav breaks its down for Theo and anyone else who keeps missing the bus.​
 

Virtual ghost

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I also wonder about the states from which all these individuals come, are they not suffering for the sudden exit happening? Are there any consequences for them if they know about it and do little or nothing to arrest it? Are they fine with the criminal elements organizing it all on their turf? Again its that issue of neglect, and they probably are getting kick backs, money or menaces play a part, but if there was state building attempted to counter drug harvesting, terrorist infestations or the like in the past why not something like that now? I know a lot of the bone heads are nationalists and cant see beyond their borders (often the end of their road, literally) or dont want to be bothered looking beyond that (again the neglect) but something should change about that.


The so called "illegal immigrants" these days are coming from countries that are in the state where there is no genuine rule of law. What means that the rule of law collapsed completely or it never really existed in the first place. What means that we are basically talking about ex colonies around global south. In other words the idea that you will be prosecuted for your crimes is basically fist world idea of how to live a life. However in large part of the world this isn't how that the game works. Especially since the institution of election is so weak that in a sense it truly doesn't matter what the people think or need. What means that people in power can do whatever they want. Therefore in a sense the current story with mass migrations is actually working for them. Since now you can just force entire opposition to your rule to move somewhere else. What in practice only cements your rule. What then means that this model can displace huge amount of people on pretty short notice.

However since there is no genuine rule of law even this can go wrong and then it gets extra ugly. Since that means that there will be civil war of some kind. What will displace even more people or even others that didn't leave in first wave. In other words many neighboring countries aren't in much better position and they just don't have the means that take all those people. What spills even more glasses in chain reaction. Also if one autocrat manages to cement his power the odds are that he will get the desire to take some parts of neighboring countries (probably due to resources in that area). What also can cause snowball effects.


In the end all of this comes down to the fact that in large parts of the world there is basically legal anarchy. I mean the odds are that the real numbers are probably even worse than the official numbers. Because in order to have reliable statistic you actually need some sort of rule of law. I mean "corruption" is basically just fancy word for "doing whatever you want".



 

ceecee

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Stav breaks its down for Theo and anyone else who keeps missing the bus.​

Cumtown was a Chapo Trap House adjacent thing for people that don't know. Adam Freedland and Nick Mullen (the rest of Cumtown) have their things too. I think its wild that people are realizing those dirtbag left guys should probably be people you listen to - including more mainstream leftys like Same and Emma (Matt Lech and David Grisom also have a great show) if you want to have a grasp on what the left is. Anyway, I love Stav, I listen to his thing on TY when I'm cleaning the house.

Here's Adam Freedland interviewing Chris Cuomo. This will never not be hilarious to me. It also shows how much Americans should not be watching MSM.

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7401985944464690463
 

Virtual ghost

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So many countries who are now enduring their time of Troubles. :(

I mean posted map is basically why all those global initiatives for fixing all kinds of things never really produce something of real significance or impact. Since for that to work you need some kind of legal security, what most of the world simply doesn't have at the moment.

I mean the map looks pretty much the same if you measure social stability, development index, media freedoms ... etc.
 
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