Random Politics Thread

[The Cat]

The Temperance movement didn't work either. You can't dehumanize humanity that way.

 

[ceecee]

He seems like European center-right, based on some of his positions. He has a fairly hands-off approach to business (at least compared to European socialists), for instance look at his position when asked in 2016 on whether victims of school shootings ought to be able to sue gun manufacturers (his position was NO, although maybe he's changed his views on it since then).

Regardless, he's not quite the far left socialist the American right portrays him as. One could never get elected in a state like Vermont, which could at best be characterized as a civil libertarian stronghold with some socialist leanings.

This is the most accurate thing that most people on the right will never get. How about Dems and especially Bernie wanting open borders? They claim this all the time.

Bernie Sanders says he does not support open borders - POLITICO

The attendee also claimed the Vermont senator is "an advocate for open borders."

“I’m afraid you may be getting your information wrong. That’s not my view,” Sanders said.

"What we need is comprehensive immigration reform,” he continued. "If you open the borders, my God, there's a lot of poverty in this world, and you're going to have people from all over the world. And I don't think that's something that we can do at this point. Can't do it. So that is not my position.”

I mean I anticipate the right simply repeating that Bernie wants open borders because they know their supporters believe anything they repeat for years at a time. Doesn't make it any more accurate.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

This is the most accurate thing that most people on the right will never get. How about Dems and especially Bernie wanting open borders? They claim this all the time.

Bernie Sanders says he does not support open borders - POLITICO



I mean I anticipate the right simply repeating that Bernie wants open borders because they know their supporters believe anything they repeat for years at a time. Doesn't make it any more accurate.

I mean a potential influx of people from impoverished regions is the elephant in the room when discussing borders. A lot of dems seem afraid to address this because they don't want to be labelled as holding a trumpist view. But I don't really think it's a republican or trumpist view. the popular trump viewpoint seems more obsessed with brown people coming here and destroying our culture, whereas dems seem more worried about the economic impact rather than the cultural impact of mass immigration. I completely share the former view with the American "left" (quotations because it isn't really left wing). Cultural interchange and cross-pollination is gonna happen, it's a regular part of history, which is basically a long series of mass migrations and mixings of various cultures and ethnic groups. Even the Europa the alt right types like to talk about defending is not the same Europe it was in in 1500, or even in 1900. It's always been an evolving ethnic and cultural landscape. These right wingers are trying to defend a fantasy that doesn't reflect reality. They think Europe is some fantasy 6 flags themepark sort of place, and god forbid the brown people come to their themepark.

It seems like a better longterm goal would be working to improve conditions in those regions so we don't get a huge influx of people that overloads our infrastructure. the Republicans want to have their cake and eat it. They don't want people coming from these regions, but also don't want to do anything to help make those regions better places to live. Trump was right they're shitholes, I just disagree with everything else he has to say on the topic.

I'm more a top shelf wine guy. I don't care where the wines are coming from or whether they're white or brown red, I just want the best wines those regions have to offer.

 

[Jaguar]

Objecting to what - the word "far," "left," or "socialist"? Because one can forget objecting to the latter since Bernie has self-identified as one over the years.

"Do they think I’m afraid of the word? I’m not afraid of the word," he said in an interview. "When I ran for the Senate the first time, I ran against the wealthiest guy in the state of Vermont. He spent a lot on advertising — very ugly stuff. He kept attacking me as a liberal. He didn’t use the word ‘socialist’ at all, because everybody in the state knows that I am that."

I don't care about far or left, I care he'a socialist. I care that someone running for leader of my nation would actually say, "I don’t think that billionaires should exist." By all means, have a vision, work your ass off to bring it into reality and then give the government all your money because once you go from being raped as a kid by family members, you shouldn't ever rebound from that shit-eating upbringing, right? Right. Look out, Oprah. Give back your billions. Now. Bernie wants them so he can go shopping.

 

[ceecee]

I mean a potential influx of people from impoverished regions is the elephant in the room when discussing borders. A lot of dems seem afraid to address this because they don't want to be labelled as holding a trumpist view. But I don't really think it's a republican or trumpist view. the popular trump viewpoint seems more obsessed with brown people coming here and destroying our culture, whereas dems seem more worried about the economic impact rather than the cultural impact of mass immigration. I completely share the former view with the American "left" (quotations because it isn't really left wing). Cultural interchange and cross-pollination is gonna happen, it's a regular part of history, which is basically a long series of mass migrations and mixings of various cultures and ethnic groups. Even the Europa the alt right types like to talk about defending is not the same Europe it was in in 1500, or even in 1900. It's always been an evolving ethnic and cultural landscape. These right wingers are trying to defend a fantasy that doesn't reflect reality. They think Europe is some fantasy 6 flags themepark sort of place, and god forbid the brown people come to their themepark.

It seems like a better longterm goal would be working to improve conditions in those regions so we don't get a huge influx of people that overloads our infrastructure. the Republicans want to have their cake and eat it. They don't want people coming from these regions, but also don't want to do anything to help make those regions better places to live. Trump was right they're shitholes, I just disagree with everything else he has to say on the topic.

I'm more a top shelf wine guy. I don't care where the wines are coming from or whether they're white or brown red, I just want the best wines those regions have to offer.

It's not that they don't want to do anything to help, both parties have backed destabilizing the regions. Currently the GOP and many waste of space Dems are having a very hard time getting people to believe their narrative in Venezuela because this is a very predictable thing this country does and people aren't buying it anymore. Same with Iran and the pubic backing another war. Not happening. Regardless, immigration reform is necessary but you have unhinged conservative crazy ready to burn it all down no matter what. They did it to Bush, they did it to Obama they'll keep doing it unless someone stops them. It's the reason getting rid of them is more important than getting rid of Trump.

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

The Temperance movement didn't work either. You can't dehumanize humanity that way.

An overwhelming majority has to be against a drug for that sort of movement to ever work. Typically it's the case that those in favor of temperance represent a minority of people trying to will their morality onto the majority. I understand our system is supposed to be designed to protect the minority, but not at the cost of the majority's wants and needs.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

It's not that they don't want to do anything to help, both parties have backed destabilizing the regions. Currently the GOP and many waste of space Dems are having a very hard time getting people to believe their narrative in Venezuela because this is a very predictable thing this country does and people aren't buying it anymore. Same with Iran and the pubic backing another war. Not happening. Regardless, immigration reform is necessary but you have unhinged conservative crazy ready to burn it all down no matter what. They did it to Bush, they did it to Obama they'll keep doing it unless someone stops them. It's the reason getting rid of them is more important than getting rid of Trump.

I never thought I'd say it, but Bush looks really great now, at least in comparison to Trump. Too bad he is barred from another term. Can you imagine him taking on Trump in a primary? I think he's one of the few republicans who would be immune to trump's typical bullying style in debate (case in point, how he reacted when Gore got in his face during one of the 2000 debates. Would love to see trump try to pull the shit he pulled with Hillary on Bush).

 

[Jaguar]

You may very well be the worst Sec. of State ever. No worries, you can always go back to selling used cars.

 

[The Cat]

An overwhelming majority has to be against a drug for that sort of movement to ever work. Typically it's the case that those in favor of temperance represent a minority of people trying to will their morality onto the majority. I understand our system is supposed to be designed to protect the minority, but not at the cost of the majority's wants and needs.

Ive never been a fan of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Historically things like this dont work.

 

[Nicodemus]

He seems like European center-right, based on some of his positions. He has a fairly hands-off approach to business (at least compared to European socialists), for instance look at his position when asked in 2016 on whether victims of school shootings ought to be able to sue gun manufacturers (his position was NO, although maybe he's changed his views on it since then).

Regardless, he's not quite the far left socialist the American right portrays him as. One could never get elected in a state like Vermont, which could at best be characterized as a civil libertarian stronghold with some socialist leanings.

He would definitely not be in the CDU, but he could be a fairly run-of-the-mill member of the (dying) SPD.

 

[Virtual ghost]

He seems like European center-right, based on some of his positions. He has a fairly hands-off approach to business (at least compared to European socialists), for instance look at his position when asked in 2016 on whether victims of school shootings ought to be able to sue gun manufacturers (his position was NO, although maybe he's changed his views on it since then).

Regardless, he's not quite the far left socialist the American right portrays him as. One could never get elected in a state like Vermont, which could at best be characterized as a civil libertarian stronghold with some socialist leanings.

However there is the hidden part of that question, I can see him working well inside my local center right (ok, he is more moral). But my local center right has decided to become generally more like CDU lately and now their base is in open revolt and things are going pretty bad for center right. Since here economic right wing policies are generally very unpopular with average right wing people (since this as a concept it doesn't have too deep tradition here). Therefore with this I am actually measuring the difference between my own center right and German one. What overall could mean weakening of German influence, especially since the one of Russia and China is growing. Here traditionally right wing generally stands for big government, nationalism and connection with church, not capitalism.


Here is about what my conservatives are thinking about.

Big Shopping Centres Against Banning Sunday Work


What kinda explains why for me the line between Bernie and conservatism is a very thin one. (and this is only the tip of the ice berg, they did left wing stuff that Bernie probably wouldn't dare to even say due to PR)

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Right-wing hawk attack tactics aren't working this time — and here's why | Salon.com

This is a game conservatives perfected in the Bush years: Bullying liberals with false accusations of being sympathetic to Islamic terrorism, simply for daring to question the bloodthirsty and provocative approach that Republicans prefer.

It's an accusation that never made sense, starting with the fact that the liberal values of secularism, sexual liberation, and feminism that homegrown conservatives hate are also despised by Islamic theocrats. But it's also an accusation that doesn't grapple with one main reason that most liberals prescribe a dovish approach: More violence only breeds more terrorism — a theory proved by the way ISIS grew from the ashes of Bush's war in Iraq.

The ultimate display of how the McCarthyite tactics conservatives have long used to silence anti-war voices are falling flat might have been that truly epic rant unleashed by Sen. Mike Lee, a Republican from Utah, who, along with Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, broke ranks with other Republicans to argue that Trump's weak excuses for killing Soleimani and escalating tension with Iran simply weren't good enough.

Lee complained that the Trump administration was using accusations that "you will be emboldening Iran" in order to convince senators that "we need to be good little boys and girls and not debate this in public". He called such pressure tactics "un-American" and "absolutely insane."

So yeah, when even Republicans are bristling under these kind of intimidation tactics, it's safe to say things have changed a lot from the days when anyone offering criticism of the Bush administration's warmongering ran the risk of being labeled a "terrorist sympathizer."

This whole thing is so fucking stupid. We had a deal in place with Iran and Trump just pissed over it because he's a moron. While we're at it, Bibi can suck a fat one.

Oh, and this is pretty interesting as well:

A report from the Wall Street Journal released Thursday contained this newish nugget of information: "Mr. Trump, after the strike, told associates he was under pressure to deal with Gen. Soleimani from GOP senators he views as important supporters in his coming impeachment trial in the Senate, associates said."

 

[Virtual ghost]

Struggle for control of Portugal’s center right drags on

LISBON — Portugal’s main opposition has failed to resolve a leadership tussle this weekend, setting up a run-off vote that underscores divisions within the center-right Social Democratic Party (PSD).

Regarding my question earlier about Bernie, in some countries things are simply defined differently. Or the whole place is so to the left that Socio-democrats can pass as the country's right wing. Also what in my country passes as conservative wouldn't pass as conservative in many others (especially US). After all my center right conservatives were founded by the guy that used to be a red army general and very large chunk of the membership were people that just switched from Communist alliance in the early 90s. My right is more like the left that rediscovered tradition, church and those kind of things. This is exactly why I said that EU elections didn't really ended as it seems, since in southern and especially eastern EU there are plenty of parties that are wrongly labeled.

 

[Jaguar]

Eight rockets landed on an Iraqi air base Sunday and injured four Iraqi officers—but who perpetrated the attack remains unclear. Iraq's military says the Katyusha rockets struck Balad Air Base, which hosts foreign contractors and US troops roughly 46 miles north of Baghdad.

Honestly, people. Cut the shit. How about if I stick those rockets up your ass? I'm tired of this nonsense.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Two Old Guys Reveal They Know Nothing About Vaping - VICE

Ok boomers

 

[Justin of Flavia Neapolis]

“We were soldiers (Marines) once, and young.”

 

[Virtual ghost]

This is a local scandal, but ...

Beljak Apologises for Justifying Political Assassinations in Ex-Yugoslavia

Croatian Peasant Party (HSS) leader Krešo Beljak on Monday apologised for his tweet in which he said that the number of killings carried out by the Yugoslav intelligence agency UDBA was insufficient.

Beljak's comment was prompted by a tweet written by a person named Renato who said that "Yugo-nostalgics fail to realize that there were over 100 political assassinations outside of Yugoslavia from 1945 to 1990. The UDBA spies were active in every Croatian immigrant community in the USA, Germany, Canada and Australia."

This "process" was indeed the case since our emigration needed to be "politically controlled". But in a way it would be interesting to see what those secret agents were doing all these decades since the end of the cold war. The HQ of the agency was in the Yugoslav capital, Belgrade. Which never became friendly with any of the mentioned western countries, even during the 90s. Not to mention that Belgrade officials organized the trial for the Clinton and other western politicians. Belgrade court sentences Western leaders to 20 years in prison (20 years old article)

A Yugoslav court has sentenced Presidents Clinton and Chirac and Mr Tony Blair to 20 years in prison for war crimes, together with 11 other Western politicians and NATO officials tried in absence.

While today Belgrade is the strongest ally of Russia and China in Europe. Just for example, Example 2



The UDBA was basically the Yugoslav version of KGB, but since Yugoslavia wasn't directly a part of the Soviet block this was completely separate agency that didn't share the faith of what the west saw as "the end of hostility". Therefore is it actually possible that during all these decades "the overlooked agency" has a large active network all around the first world ?

Not to mention it is well known that the biggest group of people from Yugoslav white nations overseas is in ...

US rust belt / midwest / swing states.


Croatian Americans


Population.

Pennsylvania (50,995)
California (45,537)
Illinois (44,065)
Ohio (41,430)
New York (26,607)
Michigan (20,547)
Florida (16,360)
Wisconsin (15,775)
Indiana (13,306)
Washington (13,268)
New Jersey (13,154)

Slovene Americans

Large concentrations

Cleveland, Ohio
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Pueblo, Colorado
Johnstown, Pennsylvania
Chicago, Illinois
Joliet, Illinois
Indianapolis, Indiana
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Eveleth, Minnesota

Macedonian Americans

Another large cluster of Macedonian Americans lives in the Midwest, particularly Detroit, where roughly 10,000 (nearly 20% of all Macedonian Americans) are reported to be living

Serbian_Americans

Major centers of Serbian settlement in the United States include Chicago, New York City, Milwaukee (12,000), Pittsburgh, Phoenix, and Jackson.
Various ethnic organizations put the number of Serbian Americans at more than 350,000.

Bosnian_Americans

The largest Bosnian American communities in the US are found in St. Louis; followed by Chicago, Jacksonville, New York City, Detroit, and Houston.[4]

I hope you get where all of this is leading. Did the "remains" of UDBA in 2016 elections ..... !?
Oops.

 

[Jaguar]

CNN’s Van Jones Buries 2020 Field After Debate: ‘Nothing I Saw Tonight Would Be Able to Take Donald Trump Out’

It was a rather lame debate.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

It was a rather lame debate.

Did any of them give great speeches in the past? Evidently, that's all that matters. Worrying about things like legislation and policies they might have voted for in the past is for the ignorant unwashed masses.