Random political thought thread.

[Virtual ghost]

While I agree, as a European, I am a bit puzzled by the term "European liberals" because what Berlin describes here, to me, is a more European than American sentiment.

Over here hardcore freemarket liberalism is perceived as an American fashion that has invaded Europe and is threatening social accomplishments that had to be worked for and worked hard.

That being said, Happy (International) Labour Day!

I just want to add that I can confirm this.
Where I live free market liberalism/capitalism is seen in pretty negative light since it is toying with the most basic needs. Here a decent chunk of people even openly says that they would rather live in open fascism or communism over completely de-regulated and undone state. Since that is basically seen as the worst fate there is and the end of all traditions. Not a pretty thing to say but that is just how it is. While the fact that the parties that are promoting totalitarian stuff are doing better than pro business ones is basically a good indicator of this. Although the bulk of parties and voters are for some kind of social democracy, which provides some kind of balanced and normal life. Since the paradigm is that radicalism should be avoided even if it is market one. Here even the Church openly attacks "free market" as a perversion that is open danger to the whole nation (they say that openly to the cameras). "Greed is good" is simply openly anti-christian however you turn it, Jesus just wasn't the man of extra profit. Therefore local right and left voters basically agree that this is agenda that should be hold at bay, even if that isn't always working. What then adds to the idea that we are under attack in a subtle way and that our culture is being undone.



Plus from what I understand today isn't a holiday in US, what subtly says something.

 

[ceecee]

While I agree, as a European, I am a bit puzzled by the term "European liberals" because what Berlin describes here, to me, is a more European than American sentiment.

Over here hardcore freemarket liberalism is perceived as an American fashion that has invaded Europe and is threatening social accomplishments that had to be worked for and worked hard.


That being said, Happy (International) Labour Day!

 

[ceecee]

I just want to add that I can confirm this.
Where I live free market liberalism/capitalism is seen in pretty negative light since it is toying with the most basic needs. Here a decent chunk of people even openly says that they would rather live in open fascism or communism over completely de-regulated and undone state. Since that is basically seen as the worst fate there is and the end of all traditions. Not a pretty thing to say but that is just how it is. While the fact that the parties that are promoting totalitarian stuff are doing better than pro business ones is basically a good indicator of this. Although the bulk of parties and voters are for some kind of social democracy, which provides some kind of balanced and normal life. Since the paradigm is that radicalism should be avoided even if it is market one. Here even the Church openly attacks "free market" as a perversion that is open danger to the whole nation (they say that openly to the cameras). "Greed is good" is simply openly anti-christian however you turn it, Jesus just wasn't the man of extra profit. Therefore local right and left voters basically agree that this is agenda that should be hold at bay, even if that isn't always working. What then adds to the idea that we are under attack in a subtle way and that our culture is being undone.



Plus from what I understand today isn't a holiday in US, what subtly says something.

Not officially no but there are many that celebrate it but you're right - labor has been under attack and weak for a long time. But there are some potential positives on the horizon.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Not officially no but there are many that celebrate it but you're right - labor has been under attack and weak for a long time. But there are some potential positives on the horizon.

Ok, but the fact that it isn't formal is kinda telling.



Also I am looking at my upcoming elections that many see as turning point in a number of ways.
There seems to be a clear front-runner but that isn't the guy that talks about jobs, taxes, economy. It is an outsider that talks about corruption, evident mismanagement(s), lies, lost benefits, infrastructure ... and that kind of stuff. Therefore he will get votes basically from entire political spectrum and that is because many people understand that foundations have to be fixed before we can really talk about anything else.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Not officially

That's not true. We have Loyalty Day.

 

[Kephalos]

[MENTION=10251]Red Herring[/MENTION], [MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION]:

I should have used "Neoliberals".

That blend of deregulation and cutting social spending administered by expert bureaucrats at (in my country) the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank. Those experts themselves, the bureaucrats that actually make and administer neoliberal policies, I think, are aware of the issue that is raised in Isaiah Berlin's quote, but I see that the pundits that promote neoliberal policies in the press and the Internet are much more radical and their discourse much more like Tim Boyd's (the infamous former mayor of Colorado City, TX). Maybe it's my country's closer ties with the United States and especially the Atlas Network that is to blame.

 

[Virtual ghost]

[MENTION=10251]Red Herring[/MENTION], [MENTION=4347]Virtual ghost[/MENTION]:

I should have used "Neoliberals".

That blend of deregulation and cutting social spending administered by expert bureaucrats at (in my country) the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank. Those experts themselves, the bureaucrats that actually make and administer neoliberal policies, I think, are aware of the issue that is raised in Isaiah Berlin's quote, but I see that the pundits that promote neoliberal policies in the press and the Internet are much more radical and their discourse much more like Tim Boyd's (the infamous former mayor of Colorado City, TX). Maybe it's my country's closer ties with the United States and especially the Atlas Network that is to blame.

Yeah, "neoliberals" is better term for what most see as the problem with current paradigms. I don't have a real problem with liberalism however this sub-version of it just goes too far.
I mean this is basically ideology that has it's roots in colonialism and therefore it is the most common in ex colonies. However today due to technology and globalization this has spread just about everywhere and all over the map you have erosion of basically any kind of structure or laws that favor average people. Somewhere this is more visible and somewhere less but it is happening just about everywhere at this point. However Neoliberalism is kinda politically correct term. The real word for this should be "Neofeudalism".

 

[Red Herring]

I am watching a two part (German) travel documentary "The USA by train". It's mostly tourist sites and lighthearted chance encounters with fellow travellors with a few cultural observations thrown in.

At one point they show medical volunteers in New Orleans helping the uninsured. The shocked voice-over goes: "Health insurance isn't compulsory and many wouldn't be able to afford the high premiums. Even though this isn't the Congo, but one of the richest countries in the world!"

 

[ceecee]

I am watching a two part (German) travel documentary "The USA by train". It's mostly tourist sites and lighthearted chance encounters with fellow travellors with a few cultural observations thrown in.

At one point they show medical volunteers in New Orleans helping the uninsured. The shocked voice-over goes: "Health insurance isn't compulsory and many wouldn't be able to afford the high premiums. Even though this isn't the Congo, but one of the richest countries in the world!"

There is no doubt that the US is a third world country with first world money. None. A combination of complete denial, a whole lot of delusional socially privilege people (views and attitudes, not necessarily wealth or lack there of) and absolutely never stepping outside this country are big contributors to lack of acknowledgement. I've been to NO and I've been to Africa and this documentary was not exaggerating.

 

[ceecee]

I don't think "apartheid state" really embodies what Israel has become. The US needs to cut ties with that poison like yesterday.

 

[Virtual ghost]

There is no doubt that the US is a third world country with first world money. None. A combination of complete denial, a whole lot of delusional socially privilege people (views and attitudes, not necessarily wealth or lack there of) and absolutely never stepping outside this country are big contributors to lack of acknowledgement. I've been to NO and I've been to Africa and this documentary was not exaggerating.

I am genuinely curious, what you must do in US to get the COVID vaccine ? Plus how much that costs on average ?

 

[ceecee]

I am genuinely curious, what you must do in US to get the COVID vaccine ? Plus how much that costs on average ?

Doesn't cost anything. There are numerous ways to get it from making an appt. with state or local health departments, pharmacies (my husband got his there), huge vaccine clinics at large venues where you can just walk in. It's going to vary from state to state. The only place I have ever even heard of anyone getting charged was at a doctor's office but that was for the visit - not the vaccine. That's still fucked up though.

People are getting a little taste of how things roll in other countries that don't have a for profit health system. The lack of involvement from the hell world of US health insurance was an attractive feature to me. I received mine early (Jan) because of my job and contact with health care staff but same thing applied. I just got a CDC card with information stickers for each dose. No insurance, no payment, nothing.

But this is absolutely way outside the norm for any health care delivery in the US. Even other vaccines. They're not free and the cost depends on the point of service.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Doesn't cost anything. There are numerous ways to get it from making an appt. with state or local health departments, pharmacies (my husband got his there), huge vaccine clinics at large venues where you can just walk in. It's going to vary from state to state. The only place I have ever even heard of anyone getting charged was at a doctor's office but that was for the visit - not the vaccine. That's still fucked up though.

People are getting a little taste of how things roll in other countries that don't have a for profit health system. The lack of involvement from the hell world of US health insurance was an attractive feature to me. I received mine early (Jan) because of my job and contact with health care staff but same thing applied. I just got a CDC card with information stickers for each dose. No insurance, no payment, nothing.

I ask exactly because I don't see any details of "business as usual". But as you can guess I welcome this (since to me this is "normal healthcare").

 

[Virtual ghost]

But this is absolutely way outside the norm for any health care delivery in the US. Even other vaccines. They're not free and the cost depends on the point of service.

Plus regarding edit, here not mandatory, not emergency special vaccines are one of the rare things that universal healthcare doesn't cover. Instead they charge you something like 50$ for a dose and service.
This is probably to avoid that everyone gets just about every vaccine in existence. However COVID vaccines aren't that category evidently.

 

[The Cat]

-_-

 

[Virtual ghost]

If you had to choose between 4 more years of Trump or 4 years of Desantis what would you choose and why ?

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

If you had to choose between 4 more years of Trump or 4 years of Desantis what would you choose and why ?

Trump because he's probably more ineffectual. They're both terrible people, but one is more likely to be competent at being terrible and that's worse.

 

[The Cat]

Your Woke Money Is No Good Here - WSJ

 

[Tellenbach]

Can a youtuber become Governor of California?

He needs at least 4 million votes and he has 1.5 million subscribers but I'm guessing that only around 0.5 to 0.8 million are living in California. I also don't think he'll get any of his agenda passed. If he wins, he'll be a lameduck like Arnold.

I do like the fact that he has new and bold ideas, like getting rid of the income tax for people earning less than $250K, eliminating the DMV, and establishing partnerships between schools and corporations so graduates will be better prepared coming out of high school.

If he decides to run as a Democrat, he may be the first and only Democrat I'll vote for.

 

[Kephalos]

If you had to choose between 4 more years of Trump or 4 years of Desantis what would you choose and why ?

I would choose a coup d'état and replacing either with anyone else.