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Random political thought thread.

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Speaking of...

GOP senators remove Lt. Gov. Fetterman from running first day of new session

They'll simply ignore every outcome that isn't the one they want. Illegal and unethical yes but none of that matters at all unless they are held responsible. You can say a lot about Dems but they don't do anything remotely this lawless. Stop voting for these people at any level - they're sheep and do whatever they're told.

Aren't you being tired of being told you're responsible for Trump winning just because you want more from the Democratic party? I know the situation in Michigan is different, but I'm just tired of being blamed for Hillary's shitty campaign.

I don't really feel like putting ANY energy into defending into the Democratic party as a whole. They won now... they have the chance to prove me wrong and show that they are good for something other than not being Republicans. I don't owe them shit.
 

Burning Paradigm

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Speaking of...

GOP senators remove Lt. Gov. Fetterman from running first day of new session

They'll simply ignore every outcome that isn't the one they want. Illegal and unethical yes but none of that matters at all unless they are held responsible. You can say a lot about Dems but they don't do anything remotely this lawless. Stop voting for these people at any level - they're sheep and do whatever they're told.

That's been their downfall, too. Democrats aren't as tooth and nail in fighting for what they want. People like Pelosi are way more concerned with seeming "divisive" and "partisan" while their counterparts could give a shit. Then they wonder why they lose elections or win at margins too close for comfort. Not saying they should stopped to unethical or illegal lows in retaliation, but just use the process to your stubborn advantage the way McConnell does. And use it to fight for bold, beneficial policies.
 

ceecee

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Aren't you being tired of being told you're responsible for Trump winning just because you want more from the Democratic party? I know the situation in Michigan is different, but I'm just tired of being blamed for Hillary's shitty campaign.

I don't really feel like putting ANY energy into defending into the Democratic party. They won now... they have the chance to prove me wrong.

I'm not defending them I'm saying they're not the same. It's very odd to me the "hold my nose" people seem to always go with the worst, most criming, most nauseating of the two choices and can't understand why you think they're judgement is now suspect in all matters.
 
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I'm not defending them I'm saying they're not the same. It's very odd to me the "hold my nose" people seem to always go with the worst, most criming, most nauseating of the two choices and can't understand why you think they're judgement is now suspect in all matters.

Who do you mean by "hold my nose"? Republicans? I agree that they aren't the same, but I guess I know too many people who talk about Obama like he was a revolutionary figure, and I'm just supposed to be happy that it's the best the country can do. I'm really tired of it....

I thought he was overrated before (actually I thought he was overrated before he was even elected), but seeing what his idea of "involvement" was during the age of Trump..... my judgement is now much harsher. Seeing what he did when he was out of office and didn't have to worry about another election was not inspiring.
 
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I've lived through 20 years of national failure and decline and Mr. Hope and Change is going to come along and tell me that things are actually great and we just need small "improvements"? Please.
 

Stigmata

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I've lived through 20 years of national failure and decline and Mr. Hope and Change is going to come along and tell me that things are actually great and we just need small "improvements"? Please.

As upset as you may justifiably be, unfortunately the only path into actualizing the changes you'd like to see is going to come incrementally from within the current political process. There are no perfect candidates so you really just have to make a choice on which candidate you believe will check most of the political policy boxes which align with your own.
 
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As upset as you may justifiably be, unfortunately the only path into actualizing the changes you'd like to see is going to come incrementally from within the current political process. There are no perfect candidates so you really just have to make a choice on which candidate you believe will check most of the political policy boxes which align with your own.

I do that.

What I don't get and can't tolerate is people acting like I have to like it. I have to like that I had to choose between these things. How are things ever going to get better if people treat being displeased with the status quo as a mortal sin? Bitching on the internet isn't going to change anything, but I'll tell you what also isn't going to change anything.... shutting down any criticism of the same things that led us down this path.
 
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This isn't the greatest country on earth and never was. Or does hanging black people from trees make one "great"? Look where we are right now. This country sucks cock.

Tell that to any President giving a speech ever.
 
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I think the only one who would listen to me and not flip out would be Obama.

He'd accuse me of wanting to tear down a system that Americans love so dearly which is why they're all so happy with the government.
 

Kingu Kurimuzon

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funny thing about these right wing douchebags like prager is in one statement they'll back the MAGA rhetoric but in another they'll say America is great. So which is it? Make up your minds.
 
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What matters to me is having people in charge who will do everything they can to try and solve problems and make things better. There are lots of different forms that could take and I'm not married to any of them at the moment, but that's what I want. Boiling it down to basics, it's a question of mentality. It's not about ideology or the labels they describe themself with. It's not about or trying to look rebellious or unique. It's not even about immediate success. It's about treating this stuff like it matters as much as everyone comes out and tells me it does every 4 years (this year it definitely matter,ed by the way; 2000 probably did as well but with the wrong outcome).


I don't want image-obsessed overachievers (nothing wrong with that, but I'd like people in the government to have a stronger motivation) or doddering oafs that still think it's 1992, because they aren't going to do that. (And I certainly don't want reality TV show attention whores who think taco trucks are bad things.)
 

Nicodemus

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He'd accuse me of wanting to tear down a system that Americans love so dearly which is why they're all so happy with the government.
You are attacking a strawman. The man knows that the United States have always been splendid ideal and sordid reality at the same time. From his book:

As I sit here, the country remains in the grips of a global pandemic and the accompanying economic crisis, with more than 178,000 Americans dead, businesses shuttered, and millions of people out of work. Across the nation, people from all walks of life have poured into the streets to protest the deaths of unarmed Black men and women at the hands of the police. Perhaps most troubling of all, our democracy seems to be teetering on the brink of crisis— a crisis rooted in a fundamental contest between two opposing visions of what America is and what it should be; a crisis that has left the body politic divided, angry, and mistrustful, and has allowed for an ongoing breach of institutional norms, procedural safeguards, and the adherence to basic facts that both Republicans and Democrats once took for granted.

This contest is not new, of course. In many ways, it has defined the American experience. It’s embedded in founding documents that could simultaneously proclaim all men equal and yet count a slave as three-fifths of a man. It finds expression in our earliest court opinions, as when the chief justice of the Supreme Court bluntly explains to Native Americans that their tribe’s rights to convey property aren’t enforceable since the court of the conqueror has no capacity to recognize the just claims of the conquered. It’s a contest that’s been fought on the fields of Gettysburg and Appomattox but also in the halls of Congress, on a bridge in Selma, across the vineyards of California, and down the streets of New York— a contest fought by soldiers but more often by union organizers, suffragists, Pullman porters, student leaders, waves of immigrants, and LGBTQ activists, armed with nothing more than picket signs, pamphlets, or a pair of marching shoes. At the heart of this long-running battle is a simple question: Do we care to match the reality of America to its ideals? If so, do we really believe that our notions of self-government and individual freedom, equality of opportunity and equality before the law, apply to everybody? Or are we instead committed, in practice if not in statute, to reserving those things for a privileged few?

I recognize that there are those who believe that it’s time to discard the myth—that an examination of America’s past and an even cursory glance at today’s headlines show that this nation’s ideals have always been secondary to conquest and subjugation, a racial caste system and rapacious capitalism, and that to pretend otherwise is to be complicit in a game that was rigged from the start. And I confess that there have been times during the course of writing this book, as I’ve reflected on my presidency and all that’s happened since, when I’ve had to ask myself whether I was too tempered in speaking the truth as I saw it, too cautious in either word or deed, convinced as I was that by appealing to what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature I stood a greater chance of leading us in the direction of the America we’ve been promised.
 

Burning Paradigm

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Georgia needs to vote to save us from Kentucky. I mean, they wouldn't want Kentucky running the SEC East, so why give Kentucky control of the Senate?
 
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You are attacking a strawman. The man knows that the United States have always been splendid ideal and sordid reality at the same time. From his book:

This is a quote from November 2019.

Barack Obama said:
“This is still a country that is less revolutionary than it is interested in improvement,” Obama said. “They like seeing things improved. But the average American doesn’t think that we have to completely tear down the system and remake it. And I think it’s important for us not to lose sight of that.”

On the surface, it just seems like a statement about the preferences of American people. But if that were really true, why did he feel he needed to get involved in the primary later? I don't know what this is called, but he seemed like he's doing the rhetorical thing where you invoke a collective to give your own personal opinion more weight. When he says "the American people" he really means "I". If he really believed that were really true, why did he feel he needed to get involved in the primary later? Surely he could have relied on the American people whose character he understands so well to pick the result he wanted, and didn't need to encourage some candidates to drop out and others to stay in.

The most infuriating thing to me about it was the fact that it was the most consequential thing he did during the past four years. Why didn't he get involved when kids were in cages?
 
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I also think it's a strawman to accuse more "radical" people of necessarily wanting to tear things down. Some people definitely want a total revolution. For me, it's more that I see so many things that aren't working, and I have to ask why so little has been done to address the fact that they aren't working.To me the entire system is massively dysfunctional, and it should be fixed. I think things are at a level that they definitely go beyond what he means by "improvements" though. I don't hate tax credits for solar panels but there is no way that is enough.
 

Nicodemus

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On the surface, it just seems like a statement about the preferences of American people. But if that were really true, why did he feel he needed to get involved in the primary later? I don't know what this is called, but he seemed like he's doing the rhetorical thing where you invoke a collective to give your own personal opinion more weight. When he says "the American people" he really means "I". If he really believed that were really true, why did he feel he needed to get involved in the primary later? Surely he could have relied on the American people whose character he understands so well to pick the result he wanted, and didn't need to encourage some candidates to drop out and others to stay in.

The most infuriating thing to me about it was the fact that it was the most consequential thing he did during the past four years. Why didn't he get involved when kids were in cages?
If you want to demonize him because he too was not perfect, go ahead. If, instead, you want to understand him, that book is a good start. I disagree with plenty of his decisions myself, but he is neither an idiot nor a coward.
 
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