Random political thought thread.

[Red Memories]

there is one thing that's weird to me though
[MENTION=7]Totenkindly[/MENTION] [MENTION=30038]The Cat[/MENTION] I wonder if they acknowledge this

I am religious, and a form of reverence is, in fact, kneeling. It shows humility and understanding of unworthiness but acceptance of mercy. I always found it weird they consider kneeling a protest in general, because kneeling in my head is actually a form of reverence.

Honestly, I looked aside the kneeling anyway, I just can't over the black national anthem shit. that is a little much for me. a little overcompensatey. Screams they want some woke points.

 

[Burning Paradigm]

The only thing that irks about sports stuff.

If I protested, peacefully, on my company's time, I would be fired.

Because they're football players making millions though it's okay for them to do something I cannot do.

I don't know it is perceived as "okay"; I mean, Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid risked (and in the case of the former, sacrificed) their careers for it. It's only acceptable now because pro sports leagues don't want to risk not being with the times and seen as sitting ducks on social issues.

Also, depends; do most companies try to force overt political displays disguised as non-partisan patriotism and sanction their employees for protesting or not participating?

 

[Red Memories]

I think you're missing the point.

I get their point, from their mouths, is to peacefully protest the brutality and racism situations in America and create a better America.

I don't see how kneeling about it is gonna fix anything. I think the original intiative to get donations, make organizations, donate to lobbys, etc. to get their points does a better job since they have millions of dollars. And in my mind, Colin K did it originally for some attention anyone. He sucked as a QB enough to get benched after a short successful run and then he becomes the most controversial player and turns everything into chaos. And he still does to get his activism woke points. These people have the money to change something. I encourage them to pool together like they have been to do so. I don't think any of them should be told they CANNOT do the kneeling though. But I do not think others should be forced to do it. However, I can see why coaches would want all or nothing since it could cause locker room destruction for the team of one player to do it and another not. It's more complicated as a whole than it looks.

 

[Burning Paradigm]

there is one thing that's weird to me though
[MENTION=7]Totenkindly[/MENTION] [MENTION=30038]The Cat[/MENTION] I wonder if they acknowledge this

I am religious, and a form of reverence is, in fact, kneeling. It shows humility and understanding of unworthiness but acceptance of mercy. I always found it weird they consider kneeling a protest in general, because kneeling in my head is actually a form of reverence.

Honestly, I looked aside the kneeling anyway, I just can't over the black national anthem shit. that is a little much for me. a little overcompensatey. Screams they want some woke points.

Just to the first point, Kaepernick kneeled at the advice of a veteran (who told him it was in the mold of veterans kneeling for their fallen): The Veteran And NFL Player Who Advised Kaepernick To Take A Knee : NPR

 

[Totenkindly]

Yeah, I agree about the kneeling.

Kapernick used to just sit but apparently had a discussion with Nate Boyer and changed it to kneeling, to make it more reverential and show respect, even while drawing attention to social justice issues.

Opinion | Eric Reid: Why Colin Kaepernick and I Decided to Take a Knee - The New York Times


EDIT: aw man Burner sniped me!

 

[The Cat]

there is one thing that's weird to me though
@Totenkindly @The Cat I wonder if they acknowledge this

I am religious, and a form of reverence is, in fact, kneeling. It shows humility and understanding of unworthiness but acceptance of mercy. I always found it weird they consider kneeling a protest in general, because kneeling in my head is actually a form of reverence.

Honestly, I looked aside the kneeling anyway, I just can't over the black national anthem shit. that is a little much for me. a little overcompensatey. Screams they want some woke points.

What? I'm not sure what if anything you're asking us to acknowledge, you seem to be flitting through a couple of varied points here? Would you mind offering a bit of clarification?

 

[ceecee]

Pledging allegiance to a flag is a political statement, as well. If you're requiring someone to stand for the pledge, that's forcing them to make a political statement they don't want to make. Analogously, this is also my issue when people say "keep politics out of sports"; as if standing for the anthem itself is not a political statement. How widespread is your perspective among rank and file in the military?

Unless an American team is playing a team from another country there is no need to play the anthem. And the NFL players were never present for the anthem until like 2007 when the DoD started buying patriotism.

 

[Red Memories]

I don't know it is perceived as "okay"; I mean, Colin Kaepernick and Eric Reid risked (and in the case of the former, sacrificed) their careers for it. It's only acceptable now because pro sports leagues don't want to risk not being with the times and seen as sitting ducks on social issues.

Also, depends; do most companies try to force overt political displays disguised as non-partisan patriotism and sanction their employees for protesting or not participating?

I guess I do not see how the flag itself is a bipartisan issue. It is the nations flag. If you are an American, you at least have an understanding of what this said flag is. Can't you love your country and ALSO want it to be even better? I can't imagine moving anywhere else or being in another country, but I also would love to see some changes in America. Can there not be both? Why does it have to be "political" to revere what the flag stands for?

 

[Red Memories]

What? I'm not sure what if anything you're asking us to acknowledge, you seem to be flitting through a couple of varied points here? Would you mind offering a bit of clarification?

I am referencing the kneeling as a form of reverence usually, you can ignore the commentary about the black national anthem if you so wish. I'm referring to the NFL going from rampant disagreement with the peaceful protests to suddenly enforcing the wokeism. XD

 

[Maou]

I don't believe in bringing politics into a place where people want to get away from politics. So I am against protests like kneeling in sports. I also don't like people disrespecting America, because despite slavery. America is one of the countries that put an end to it for the developing first world. The civil war was fought partially for the slaves. So despite all the good, people still want to piss on it because some bad happened in the past. I'm okay with proresting against racism, but don't do it in a way that also disrespects the people who fought and died to free the slaves, and provide opportunity and freedom for all. Sure America ain't perfect, and has its problems. But we shouldn't forget the whole story either.

 

[Burning Paradigm]

I guess I do not see how the flag itself is a bipartisan issue. It is the nations flag. If you are an American, you at least have an understanding of what this said flag is. Can't you love your country and ALSO want it to be even better? I can't imagine moving anywhere else or being in another country, but I also would love to see some changes in America. Can there not be both? Why does it have to be "political" to revere what the flag stands for?

What if someone thinks America's falling short of its purported ideals and the way I want to draw attention to it is by NOT standing for the flag? That's a political statement I want to make; so what are you (by which I mean the organization) telling me if you forbid me from kneeling? Are you trying to tell me what's an acceptable form of protest or drawing attention to an issue; is that itself not a political statement?

Sure, you can love your country and want it to be better; that's how a majority of people feel. But, that isn't the point.

 

[Totenkindly]

"The Star-Spangled Banner': 'I don't think it's appropriate' to play the US national anthem at professional sporting events, says Bruce Arena - CNN

It seems that it all started primarily to drum up support and seriousness about WWI, which I can understand being a big deal (no one had any idea what was going to happen, it was a global war, etc.)

Then somehow it became gospel, one more social convention. There are very few alive now who would have actually experienced the events of 1918, we just do it now "just because to us we've always done it." But when you step back and look at it, is there a point for sports in particular to do this, aside from national sporting events where teams are actually representing their actual countries?

 

[Virtual ghost]

Unless an American team is playing a team from another country there is no need to play the anthem. And the NFL players were never present for the anthem until like 2007 when the DoD started buying patriotism.

And if they play against the team from another country there really is the need to play the anthem(s) ? (curious)

 

[Burning Paradigm]

Unless an American team is playing a team from another country there is no need to play the anthem. And the NFL players were never present for the anthem until like 2007 when the DoD started buying patriotism.

Exactly. Like when the Raptors made the NBA Finals last year, it was rather heartwarming for me hearing both the Canadian and American national anthems.

 

[Burning Paradigm]

I don't believe in bringing politics into a place where people want to get away from politics. So I am against protests like kneeling in sports. I also don't like people disrespecting America, because despite slavery. America is one of the countries that put an end to it for the developing first world. The civil war was fought partially for the slaves. So despite all the good, people still want to piss on it because some bad happened in the past. I'm okay with proresting against racism, but don't do it in a way that also disrespects the people who fought and died to free the slaves, and provide opportunity and freedom for all. Sure America ain't perfect, and has its problems. But we shouldn't forget the whole story either.

The entire history of sports is intertwined with politics (on and off the field); the idea of it being a pure escapist fantasy is somewhat mythological. Besides, if you want to bring attention to an issue and have the platform to do it, what better way to do it than in a large public venue? Nobody's being forced to watch or attend if those 2 minutes of kneeling sour the entire sport for someone.

 

[The Cat]

I am referencing the kneeling as a form of reverence usually, you can ignore the commentary about the black national anthem if you so wish. I'm referring to the NFL going from rampant disagreement with the peaceful protests to suddenly enforcing the wokeism. XD

Ok. You're making a lot of assumptions as to what I am or arent doing. And the nebulous nature of your clarification has brought me no closer to understanding what you're actually trying to say. I get that you're making some reference to kneeling as a form of reverence and tangentially tying it to the song lift every voice and sing, with what seems like some form of hostility that I dont understand, the connection itself as you seem to see it nor why there should be anything upsetting about either one? Again I'm having to try to cobble together when I'm still not clear on what you're trying to say exactly.

And then you add wokeism on like an ellipses. Which leaves me wondering where on the reel the backlash came from, and how much time is going to take to untangle the line?

 

[The Cat]

The entire history of sports is intertwined with politics (on and off the field); the idea of it being a pure escapist fantasy is somewhat mythological. Besides, if you want to bring attention to an issue and have the platform to do it, what better way to do it than in a large public venue? Nobody's being forced to watch or attend if those 2 minutes of kneeling sour the entire sport for someone.

Super overtly too for anyone who's paying even a little attention.

 

[Riva]

I don't believe in bringing politics into a place where people want to get away from politics. So I am against protests like kneeling in sports. I also don't like people disrespecting America, because despite slavery. America is one of the countries that put an end to it for the developing first world. The civil war was fought partially for the slaves. So despite all the good, people still want to piss on it because some bad happened in the past. I'm okay with proresting against racism, but don't do it in a way that also disrespects the people who fought and died to free the slaves, and provide opportunity and freedom for all. Sure America ain't perfect, and has its problems. But we shouldn't forget the whole story either.

Sorry I know you didn't advised against debate in this thread.

I am deeply conflicted about the kneeling thing. As you've said I hate it when politics and religion are displayed in sports and I think it should be banned. At the same time if a protest is peaceful I am all for it and whom am I to disagree if a group is continuously feeling prosecuted by authorities/police and they wish to peacefully protest in a sporting event.

My immense dislike of politics and religion being dragged to sports outweighs the peaceful political protests but then I tell myself if not here where are they allowed to protest cus maybe they don't feel heard.

 

[Riva]

I am referencing the kneeling as a form of reverence usually, you can ignore the commentary about the black national anthem if you so wish. I'm referring to the NFL going from rampant disagreement with the peaceful protests to suddenly enforcing the wokeism. XD

Totally recently a Caribbean cricket commentator (Michael Holding) was displaying his extreme disappointment of England and Pakistani Cricketers not kneeling before the match to show solidarity with the protests.

This is classic woke enforcement.

Pakistan has its own immense human rights issues (ethnic, religious) and forcing them to protest on something that is not even related to them may make to look hypocritical .

And then the same commentator was extremely mad that English and Australian cricketers didn't kneel either.

 

[ceecee]

And if they play against the team from another country there really is the need to play the anthem(s) ? (curious)

No not really but I have no issue if they want to play both. As a person with family of dual nationalities, I'm open on international play.