Random political thought thread.

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

On the surface, it would seem that way. However, I think lots of people would find something else to object to. Like people who claim to support peaceful protesting but always find something to object to whenever it happens, like blocking traffic or disrespecting the national anthem.

Sure, there’s always gonna be someone to find something to complain about, but I think they’d have won over more well intentioned but misinformed people. Sure, we can complain that those misinformed people could have taken the time to do their research, but realistically, most people just seem interested in taking everything at face value. Might as well make the message as easy to digest at face value, without actually compromising the goals of the movement and its message.

With your typical white liberal boomer who has misgivings about BLM, the misgivings almost always seem to be rooted in a misunderstanding and false impression of the name. Gotta spell it out a little better for some people and not assume they’ll just get your meaning right away. This would have led to less people saying “white lives matter too” as a kneejerk reaction

When I participated in some marches recently, I added a Too to my homemade BLM signs. I made sure to consult with the organizers, explaining my reasoning that it wasn’t subverting the message, rather spelling it out, and they said it was ok. I wouldn’t have done it without checking first

 

[Red Memories]

A lot of the criticism of BLM over the name could have been easily avoided by adding a “Too” to the end of the motto.

Yes, I actually agree. XD

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

But I liked Jason Sudeikis as Biden—actually my favorite of any impression (of politicians) so far in 2020 (yes, even better than Larry David’s Bernie IMO). He really nailed it without going too over the top.

Carrey is brilliant but I don’t think impressions are his strongest point. Maybe with the exception of his Andy Kaufman performance. He makes the mistake of over exaggerating. Similar reason I don’t think Jay Mohr’s Walken impression is the best (far from it).

I realize there’s a split, some people like it when comedians go over the top and exaggerate with their impressions, I just prefer more on the nail impressions. Which is why I’ve never really tried to master my Walken. He’s one of the tougher ones to get, and most comedians just exaggerate instead of trying to hit the little subtle rhythms and quirks of his speech patterns. Though I do a decent older Pacino and I used to do a fucking great GW Bush, one i would hold up against Ferrell’s any day. He didn’t really even try to mirror Bush’s voice, just the mannerisms and his rhythms, which he got pretty well.

I’ve also seen tons of Trump impressions that absolutely trump Baldwin’s Trump

Oh well

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, Carrey is like a caricature artist so to speak, versus a more realistic duplicator. he didn't learn subtlety until later in his acting career either, although if he has the right coach/director he can pull it off. He just tends to dive into excess unless he has someone actively constraining him and channeling his ability, it's like the nozzle only runs at 11 and he didn't naturally have the finesse of dexterity or perception to control the flow.

 

[The Cat]

 

[Jaguar]

The first debate between Lindsey Graham and Jamie Harrison is on CSPAN tonight. 8 PM EDT.

Also, what the fuck is this:
Lindsey Graham photographed with leader of white nationalist group Proud Boys

 

[Jaguar]

Lindsey, with the shit flying out of your mouth, I'm glad the sound system is this fucked up.

 

[The Cat]

 

[ceecee]

A lot of the criticism of BLM over the name could have been easily avoided by adding a “Too” to the end of the motto.

Letter: All lives can’t matter until black lives matter too | South Whidbey Record

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Letter: All lives can’t matter until black lives matter too | South Whidbey Record

Yes, this is good

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

But I liked Jason Sudeikis as Biden—actually my favorite of any impression (of politicians) so far in 2020 (yes, even better than Larry David’s Bernie IMO). He really nailed it without going too over the top.

Carrey is brilliant but I don’t think impressions are his strongest point. Maybe with the exception of his Andy Kaufman performance. He makes the mistake of over exaggerating. Similar reason I don’t think Jay Mohr’s Walken impression is the best (far from it).

I realize there’s a split, some people like it when comedians go over the top and exaggerate with their impressions, I just prefer more on the nail impressions. Which is why I’ve never really tried to master my Walken. He’s one of the tougher ones to get, and most comedians just exaggerate instead of trying to hit the little subtle rhythms and quirks of his speech patterns. Though I do a decent older Pacino and I used to do a fucking great GW Bush, one i would hold up against Ferrell’s any day. He didn’t really even try to mirror Bush’s voice, just the mannerisms and his rhythms, which he got pretty well.

I’ve also seen tons of Trump impressions that absolutely trump Baldwin’s Trump

Oh well

What do you think of this?

I'm actually not sure if I would really consider that exaggerated, given that Ventura kind of actually does talk like this (or at least, he does in Abraxas: Guardian of the Universe). Adomian also does a pretty good Bernie Sanders, too.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

What do you think of this?

I'm actually not sure if I would really consider that exaggerated, given that Ventura kind of actually does talk like this (or at least, he does in Abraxas: Guardian of the Universe). Adomian also does a pretty good Bernie Sanders, too.

It sounded like Ventura when he acts in movies. Abraxas, and especially Predator, since he played kind of a meathead in the latter.

Real life Ventura, harder to say— I’d have to go listen to some interviews, but this might fool me if I didn’t know it was an imitation.

 

[Lark]

For some reason I think you could be culturally or socially conservative, ie traditionalist, within a liberal or left wing party of if you are in a right wing party proposing they could be fiscally egalitarian or favour redistribution and oppose privilege and corruption, I'm definitely not going to buy it.

 

[ceecee]

What do you think of this?

I'm actually not sure if I would really consider that exaggerated, given that Ventura kind of actually does talk like this (or at least, he does in Abraxas: Guardian of the Universe). Adomian also does a pretty good Bernie Sanders, too.

He hasn't been on Chapo for awhile but he does an amazing Sebastian Gorka too.

 

[FemMecha]

I think the basic principles of actual conservatism and liberalism are both necessary and valid for every society. I respect the underlying notion of defending boundaries, being cautious of change, requiring a convincing case to be made for new social programs, providing maximum individual freedom (economically and morally/culturally if you are consistent). etc. that is associated with conservatism and the questioning of boundaries, considering the needs of the underpriviledged, etc. associated with liberalism. Those debates need to be ongoing and we need intelligent, educated individuals to make convincing cases on both sides of issues that affect society.

I'll just say off the cuff that I would probably more inclined to entertain Libertarian and conservatism views more readily if the people supporting those positions here weren't so bratty and mean here and in some cases elsewhere (although I know some reasonable ones elsewhere and the milder ones here I respect). Right now there is a Maverick Party where a bunch of people playing cowboy in an extremely annoying manner. Also why would would they keep saying these racist and misogynistic things? What's conservative about that, except there is a cultural tradition of inequality?) I wish I could entertain being a conservative more thoroughly and with respect, but the people are too annoying. It takes all my energy not to to hold a mirror up to them to see they are everything they accuse others of being. So many go around being overtly mean and accusing others of being mean, constantly trying to push buttons for emotional reactions instead of intelligent discourse. It's so childish. It's bratty behavior.

Edit: I don't want to respond to specific people with these criticisms because it wouldn't be constructive. I also don't think everyone who is a bit conservative here or elsewhere is like this, but I speak indirectly for the purpose of offering an "if the shoe fits" criticism. If you aren't like this, then this post isn't about you, and if you are like this, then this post is about you. My individual opinion is open to ongoing revision, so I'd rather not direct it with specificity. Offering it in general terms allows for more accuracy than my own individual conclusions can provide. It is an established issue, so hopefully I can make the point more accurately through indirect criticism. People can decide if it applies to them, dismiss it, realize their behavior is driving people from their ideas, or just take a nap. Your choice not mine.

 

[Jaguar]

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us, only sky

 

[Lark]

I think the basic principles of actual conservatism and liberalism are both necessary and valid for every society. I respect the underlying notion of defending boundaries, being cautious of change, requiring a convincing case to be made for new social programs, providing maximum individual freedom (economically and morally/culturally if you are consistent). etc. that is associated with conservatism and the questioning of boundaries, considering the needs of the underpriviledged, etc. associated with liberalism. Those debates need to be ongoing and we need intelligent, educated individuals to make convincing cases on both sides of issues that affect society.

I'll just say off the cuff that I would probably more inclined to entertain Libertarian and conservatism views more readily if the people supporting those positions here weren't so bratty and mean here and in some cases elsewhere (although I know some reasonable ones elsewhere and the milder ones here I respect). Right now there is a Maverick Party where a bunch of people playing cowboy in an extremely annoying manner. Also why would would they keep saying these racist and misogynistic things? What's conservative about that, except there is a cultural tradition of inequality?) I wish I could entertain being a conservative more thoroughly and with respect, but the people are too annoying. It takes all my energy not to to hold a mirror up to them to see they are everything they accuse others of being. So many go around being overtly mean and accusing others of being mean, constantly trying to push buttons for emotional reactions instead of intelligent discourse. It's so childish. It's bratty behavior.

Edit: I don't want to respond to specific people with these criticisms because it wouldn't be constructive. I also don't think everyone who is a bit conservative here or elsewhere is like this, but I speak indirectly for the purpose of offering an "if the shoe fits" criticism. If you aren't like this, then this post isn't about you, and if you are like this, then this post is about you. My individual opinion is open to ongoing revision, so I'd rather not direct it with specificity. Offering it in general terms allows for more accuracy than my own individual conclusions can provide. It is an established issue, so hopefully I can make the point more accurately through indirect criticism. People can decide if it applies to them, dismiss it, realize their behavior is driving people from their ideas, or just take a nap. Your choice not mine.

To be honest, if we could just dispense with capitalism, get the proper balance between public and private life and contain crime, especially drug and people trafficking for long enough a lot of these differences become pretty academic.

Too much of what is common sense, or simply cultural norms, has been appropriated by politicians and ideologues. Its not their exclusive property and people should not let them get away with that. They may as well be standing on a platform of "blue is the best colour, we hate red" or vice versa.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I think the basic principles of actual conservatism and liberalism are both necessary and valid for every society. I respect the underlying notion of defending boundaries, being cautious of change, equiring a convincing case to be made for new social programs, providing maximum individual freedom (economically and morally/culturally if you are consistent). etc. that is associated with conservatism and the questioning of boundaries, considering the needs of the underpriviledged, etc. associated with liberalism. Those debates need to be ongoing and we need intelligent, educated individuals to make convincing cases on both sides of issues that affect society.

I'll just say off the cuff that I w;lpppppppp6yy-ould probably more inclined to entertain Libertarian and conservatism views more readily if the people supporting those positions here weren't so bratty and mean here and in some cases elsewhere (although I know some reasonable ones elsewhere and the milder ones here I respect). Right now there is a Maverick Party where a bunch of people playing cowboy in an extremely annoying manner. Also why would would they keep saying these racist and misogynistic things? What's conservative about that, except there is a cultural tradition of inequality?) I wish I could entertain being a conservative more thoroughly and with respect, but the people are too annoying. It takes all my energy not to to hold a mirror up to them to see they are everything they accuse others of being. So many go around being overtly mean and accusing others of being mean, constantly trying to push buttons for emotional reactions instead of intelligent discourse. It's so childish. It's bratty behavior.

Edit: I don't want to respond to specific people with these criticisms because it wouldn't be constructive. I also don't think everyone who is a bit conservative here or elsewhere is like this, but I speak indirectly for the purpose of offering an "if the shoe fits" criticism. If you aren't like this, then this post isn't about you, and if you are like this, then this post is about you. My individual opinion is open to ongoing revision, so I'd rather not direct it with specificity. Offering it in general terms allows for more accuracy than my own individual conclusions can provide. It is an established issue, so hopefully I can make the point more accurately through indirect criticism. People can decide if it applies to them, dismiss it, realize their behavior is driving people from their ideas, or just take a nap. Your choice not mine.

I see where you are coming from, and agree in principle. But I think the Republican party is less a conservative party, than a radical right wing party interested in rewriting the rules of American society. The mainstream Democratic party is actually a conservative party by that definition, with people like AOC and Sanders being the actual leftists or progressives. This isn't something I would say was new with Trump, either.

Republican politicians have long seemed less interested in caution and restraint, and more about doing reckless things that look "strong." In that there's an attitude of gender norms and American culture has for some years now posited that kind of behavior as an ideal attitude... consider "the cop who doesn't play by the rules"...your standard action movie hero who is at odds with his superiors who are usually corrupt anyway.

So, in short, Trump is a radical right-winger, and not a "betrayer of everything the GOP stands for", because that's what the GOP is about, and has been about for quite some time. Biden is a conservative. Sanders is the progressive/left-winger.

Pre-covid, I wouldn't have thought there was a strong enough demand for actual conservatism in American politics, but I think things are shifted enough so that it's attractive. I think many people very well might prefer a return to "norms" (how practical that can be is a different issue) versus more of the radical change that Trump has delivered.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I see where you are coming from, and agree in principle. But I think the Republican party is less a conservative party, than a radical right wing party interested in rewriting the rules of American society. The mainstream Democratic party is actually a conservative party by that definition, with people like AOC and Sanders being the actual leftists or progressives. This isn't something I would say was new with Trump, either.

Republican politicians have long seemed less interested in caution and restraint, and more about doing reckless things that look "strong." In that there's an attitude of gender norms and American culture has for some years now posited that kind of behavior as an ideal attitude... consider "the cop who doesn't play by the rules"...your standard action movie hero who is at odds with his superiors who are usually corrupt anyway.

So, in short, Trump is a radical right-winger, and not a "betrayer of everything the GOP stands for", because that's what the GOP is about, and has been about for quite some time. Biden is a conservative. Sanders is the progressive/left-winger.

Pre-covid, I wouldn't have thought there was a strong enough demand for actual conservatism in American politics, but I think things are shifted enough so that it's attractive. I think many people very well might prefer a return to "norms" (how practical that can be is a different issue) versus more of the radical change that Trump has delivered.

The old conservatism, which more closely resembled civic nationalism and gave a shit about conservationism and the little guy, it died with people like Goldwater and JFK

There was never anything conservative about the activism of the religious right. Yes, I largely blame the religious right for the current GOP, even if the new right or alt right has sort of replaced the religious right in influence. They operate from much of the same playbook

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

[MENTION=20035]anticlimatic[/MENTION] we make a deal. You agree to vote for Jo Jorgensen, I’ll cast a vote for Hawkins.

I sense you are conflicted and a great deal of your support for Trump is more about just sticking it to the dems