Random Movie Thoughts Thread

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Besides I don't think the Hale-Bopp comet is due back yet.

 

[Totenkindly]

I don't know but I've been waiting for accusations to drop for quite some time and apparently yesterday there was some story about underage girls making the rounds.

Damn, how many times must these groups do the same stupid shit and have the same stupid consequences for everyone?

 

[Totenkindly]

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Is Vickers an Android in Prometheus?

 

[Totenkindly]

I don't think so, based on the king has his reign, then he dies speech from the extended scene and her entire demeanor and attitude. David as an entity is distinctly different from her, you can tell hes looking at humanity from the outside. And she fully falls into the pattern of a daughter who is outwardly cold, inwardly furious, from years of having to deal with her father's bs and eke out whatever respect and power she could get in a man's world. She also fucks Idris Elba just fine; she might be a cold persona but seems to know how to be human.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

View attachment 26023

Oh it took me a second to realize that’s the Biehn

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I think I prefer the android explanation for Vickers. Androids can have sex too. I think she was an executive model. I think she was likely a prototype similar to how David was unique, one which Weyland kept close by and trusted. Just like David had Walter, there were probably commercial variants of the Vickers model. Weyland viewed all of his favorite androids as his own children, so naturally he treated her as a daughter. Vickers had likely been designed and groomed to handle the business side of things, going off to oversee important meetings and act as his personal liasion to board members, shareholders, and executives--so she got a reputation as a ball breaking ice queen. David on the other hand was Weyland's personal manservant, and was with him most of the time. So he came to be the most loved and trusted, and Vickers had a slight tinge of jealousy.

 

[Totenkindly]

I always appreciate a variety of opinions, I just don't share this one. It doesn't gel for me. Vickers seems actually bitter that her father isn't dying off so she could be in charge, which is a human concern and not really an android one. Why would he put an android in charge of the company? He doesn't even put David in charge, and David is his primary creation. Handing off your life's work to a child makes sense; it doesn't make sense for succession to involve one of myriad androids, especially with how pissed off Wayland is when David basically tells him he's going go outlast Wayland in the opening to Covenant. I can't imagine that option even being on the table for Vickers, if she is an android; but it is very clear that she was expecting to take over for her father when he dies, and now he's trying to avoid dying at all costs, robbing her of her birthright. Androids don't give a shit about birthrights and the natural order.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Weyland was kind of dumb. I don't know how he expected to receive the gift of immortality from a xenophobic engineer

 

[Totenkindly]

Hollywood failed Bruce Willis

Many filmmakers now say they were “concerned” for years about his health.

thehill.com

Apparently this has been going on for a long time, with obvious decline.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Weyland was kind of dumb. I don't know how he expected to receive the gift of immortality from a xenophobic engineer

How did he know the engineer was xenophobic, though?

It was kind of a Roy Batty going to meet his creator type situation, although in this case the outcome was reversed. But Tyrell wasn't really xenophobic, he just saw himself as God for what he had done. How could Weyland have known the engineer wouldn't have acted as a human like Tyrell might in that situation?

Actually, Weyland has the same role as Tyrell, we just see him grappling with his mortality.

It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I remember the motives of the engineers being pretty much a mystery.

 

[Totenkindly]

The script needed tightened/focused better, and Scott shouldn't have edited out the explanatory text in most cases. Alas. I hate it when smart people are written dumbly. You could make a case for Wayland's ego blinding him, but he needed to have more articulated reasons for his decisions and expectations.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

How did he know the engineer was xenophobic, though?

It was kind of a Roy Batty going to meet his creator type situation, although in this case the outcome was reversed. But Tyrell wasn't really xenophobic, he just saw himself as God for what he had done. How could Weyland have known the engineer wouldn't have acted as a human like Tyrell might in that situation?

Actually, Weyland has the same role as Tyrell, we just see him grappling with his mortality.

It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I remember the motives of the engineers being pretty much a mystery.

He was warned. In particular, Dr. Shaw attempted to warn him beforehand. He should've at least had contingencies in place, maybe had more analysis and work done by his team before he was woken up and taken to meet the engineer. He trusted Shaw and Holloway enough to have them on the mission, "in charge", even if they were not de facto in charge. Considering he recognized their intelligence and qualitifications enough to include them on the mission, it's odd that he wouldn't take pause when a bloody Dr. Shaw showed up pleading with them to leave the planet and avoid the engineers at all cost. Like, maybe this brilliant business leader and inventor might take a moment and say "hey, can we get some additional expeditions into the pyramid before I go meet this potentially angry alien?" Even though Holloway and Shaw are their as a cover for the real mission, Weyland ought to have realized they were still valuable sources of expertise and insight. Nobody in this movie does anything in line with their characters or their characters' qualifications, they all do stupid shit to move the plot forward. Just bad writing.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

The script needed tightened/focused better, and Scott shouldn't have edited out the explanatory text in most cases. Alas. I hate it when smart people are written dumbly. You could make a case for Wayland's ego blinding him, but he needed to have more articulated reasons for his decisions and expectations.

Yes, this is what my rant is about. It takes me out of the film whenever I try to give it another chance. I can't take any of the characters seriously. We're told they are all the best and brightest, and yet nearly every character acts in the dumbest ways just as an excuse to move the story along to the next sci-fi horror set pieces. And the setpieces feel like shit out of cliched B horror movies--the trope with the "cute" worm creature for instance. Or the removing of space suit helmets. Only Idris Elba really acts with any sense. Vickers seems to be a voice of reason, preventing infected Holloway from entering the ship with a flame thrower, but then later she is "la dee da, engineers are going to attack earth, no, do NOT attempt to bring it down with the Prometheus." I suppose both her reactions could be explained as more motivated by self interest, but it still feels jarring to see the one person who really took quarantine procedures seriously suddenly change their tune.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

Napoleon Dynamite was the first character that ever felt real and identifiable to me. Sure, maybe I liked to think of myself as identifying with extraordinary characters like Beast from X-Men or Spock, but in reality, I was, and still am, just this average, awkward dweeb.

One of the great things about the titular character in that film is that he's so real. Usually nerd and dork characters in films always have to fit some awkward savant archetype. They tend to be super intelligent or have some highly specialized skill or knowledge which makes them valuable. Napoleon is not the smartest kid, and he isn't even great at his hobby of drawing. In most movies, the awkward nerd who sketches would be revealed to be an exceptionally gifted artist, but Napoleon's drawings look like elementary or junior high level doodles at best. Napoleon is just an ordinary nerd and a loser. He's not a smart nerd, just a nerd. I was and basically still am that person. I identified with the character in a way I couldn't do with other nerd characters.

 

[Totenkindly]

Napoleon Dynamite was the first character that ever felt real and identifiable to me. Sure, maybe I liked to think of myself as identifying with extraordinary characters like Beast from X-Men or Spock, but in reality, I was, and still am, just this average, awkward dweeb.

One of the great things about the titular character in that film is that he's so real. Usually nerd and dork characters in films always have to fit some awkward savant archetype. They tend to be super intelligent or have some highly specialized skill or knowledge which makes them valuable. Napoleon is not the smartest kid, and he isn't even great at his hobby of drawing. In most movies, the awkward nerd who sketches would be revealed to be an exceptionally gifted artist, but Napoleon's drawings look like elementary or junior high level doodles at best. Napoleon is just an ordinary nerd and a loser. He's not a smart nerd, just a nerd. I was and basically still am that person. I identified with the character in a way I couldn't do with other nerd characters.

I think the only thing that he seemed surprisingly adept at was his dance routine, which comes out of the blue -- and is so weird and yet so fascinating at once that it still fits in character. But yeah, he wasn't a cookie cutter savant sort or anything. It's not a film I've felt like rewatching but I definitely agree on the uniqueness of the character and how it felt more realistic.

---

I just rewatched Juno last night after having not seen it for at least ten years. It's pretty refreshing in managing to deal with the abortion / pregnant teen theme without really getting caught up in the political aspects or promoting a particular stance, it all feels unique and personal to Juno. There was also some dream casting, making her parents JK Simmons and Allison Janney, both of whom have pulled in Oscars since == they are cut from the same cloth as each other.

I also don't like Jennifer Garner in almost anything, but I thought she played this role of the childless woman who feels born to be a mother perfectly -- this might be the one performance of hers I thought was great.

It also is just odd watching, seeing Elliot Page as he was at the time (and seemingly a palatable actress / persona to audiences, and seemingly happy) but really quite miserable in his own skin, especially with the strong sexual roles including a pregnancy. I look at him with new eyes. I remember one of my friends from here so many years ago relaying to me their experience as someone who was attractive in their old body but was utterly miserable. My experience was opposite in terms of what I gave up and what I embraced, but I strongly empathize with the sense of being forced to be someone you are not and pretending each day to be okay with it while inside feeling as if you are dying. Now he looks like his own brother. I hope he is very happy and has found peace being himself, even with his "sister" gone so to speak -- she was cool and felt real, but like I said, that experience can feel very different when you're the one inside looking out, and I am glad he has found some joy.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Napoleon Dynamite was the first character that ever felt real and identifiable to me. Sure, maybe I liked to think of myself as identifying with extraordinary characters like Beast from X-Men or Spock, but in reality, I was, and still am, just this average, awkward dweeb.

One of the great things about the titular character in that film is that he's so real. Usually nerd and dork characters in films always have to fit some awkward savant archetype. They tend to be super intelligent or have some highly specialized skill or knowledge which makes them valuable. Napoleon is not the smartest kid, and he isn't even great at his hobby of drawing. In most movies, the awkward nerd who sketches would be revealed to be an exceptionally gifted artist, but Napoleon's drawings look like elementary or junior high level doodles at best. Napoleon is just an ordinary nerd and a loser. He's not a smart nerd, just a nerd. I was and basically still am that person. I identified with the character in a way I couldn't do with other nerd characters.

I like Uncle Rico. Well, I wouldn't like him as a person, probably, but I feel like there are a lot of guys like that who still think they are the alpha dog even though their high school football days were a long time ago and who don't understand that it kinda becomes uncool to be so obsessed with being cool once you hit your 30s. He understands that things were better for him and he was idolized more in high school but he can't adapt to the situation and just wants to travel back in time so he can stay the same (trying not to take things too off topic here, haha) It's just a real sort of person you don't see portrayed that much in movies or TV but are kind of everywhere in real life. I don't even think he was ever asked by Napoleon's grandma to show up and take care of Napoleon and Kip, he was just kind of full of shit about that.

I have an uncle who loves this movie because he relates to Napoleon as well.

 

[Kingu Kurimuzon]

I think the only thing that he seemed surprisingly adept at was his dance routine, which comes out of the blue -- and is so weird and yet so fascinating at once that it still fits in character. But yeah, he wasn't a cookie cutter savant sort or anything. It's not a film I've felt like rewatching but I definitely agree on the uniqueness of the character and how it felt more realistic.

---

I just rewatched Juno last night after having not seen it for at least ten years. It's pretty refreshing in managing to deal with the abortion / pregnant teen theme without really getting caught up in the political aspects or promoting a particular stance, it all feels unique and personal to Juno. There was also some dream casting, making her parents JK Simmons and Allison Janney, both of whom have pulled in Oscars since == they are cut from the same cloth as each other.

I also don't like Jennifer Garner in almost anything, but I thought she played this role of the childless woman who feels born to be a mother perfectly -- this might be the one performance of hers I thought was great.

It also is just odd watching, seeing Elliot Page as he was at the time (and seemingly a palatable actress / persona to audiences, and seemingly happy) but really quite miserable in his own skin, especially with the strong sexual roles including a pregnancy. I look at him with new eyes. I remember one of my friends from here so many years ago relaying to me their experience as someone who was attractive in their old body but was utterly miserable. My experience was opposite in terms of what I gave up and what I embraced, but I strongly empathize with the sense of being forced to be someone you are not and pretending each day to be okay with it while inside feeling as if you are dying. Now he looks like his own brother. I hope he is very happy and has found peace being himself, even with his "sister" gone so to speak -- she was cool and felt real, but like I said, that experience can feel very different when you're the one inside looking out, and I am glad he has found some joy.

Becoming a parent changed my perspective on the Bateman and Garner characters. I also took a different view on the Juno-Mark relationship. Initially I thought it was a typical case of an adult grooming a child. I read or heard the writer or director talking about this movie and they explained it wasn't meant to be presented as a predatory relationship as it was a relatioship between two people with one thing the other person can't have--for Juno, she can't wait to grow up and enter what she views as a cool adult world filled with cool musicians and no lame parents. Mark represents the experience and wisdom she craves more than any other adult. Meanwhile Mark is grasping at his youth, fighting against getting older, and Juno represents the youth he cherishes. It's still a toxic relationship, and I could see it possibly leading to more disturbing outcomes had Juno not cut him off, but it's not toxic for the same reason a lot of people think when they see the film. I do think it's a good example of why adult-child friendships tend to not work unless there is a very clear elder/youth or mentor/apprentice boundary set, even when the danger of sexual abuse is non-existent. Like the less toxic way might have involved him just giving her some formal guitar lessons or perhaps providing listening suggestions within the context of a mentor-student relationship. Mark crossed a lot of lines in that movie, even if his initial intentions may have been harmless.

 

[Totenkindly]

Becoming a parent changed my perspective on the Bateman and Garner characters. I also took a different view on the Juno-Mark relationship. Initially I thought it was a typical case of an adult grooming a child. I read or heard the writer or director talking about this movie and they explained it wasn't meant to be presented as a predatory relationship as it was a relatioship between two people with one thing the other person can't have--for Juno, she can't wait to grow up and enter what she views as a cool adult world filled with cool musicians and no lame parents. Mark represents the experience and wisdom she craves more than any other adult. Meanwhile Mark is grasping at his youth, fighting against getting older, and Juno represents the youth he cherishes. It's still a toxic relationship, and I could see it possibly leading to more disturbing outcomes had Juno not cut him off, but it's not toxic for the same reason a lot of people think when they see the film. I do think it's a good example of why adult-child friendships tend to not work unless there is a very clear elder/youth or mentor/apprentice boundary set, even when the danger of sexual abuse is non-existent. Like the less toxic way might have involved him just giving her some formal guitar lessons or perhaps providing listening suggestions within the context of a mentor-student relationship. Mark crossed a lot of lines in that movie, even if his initial intentions may have been harmless.

I remember the first time watching I did think Mark was grooming her, whether consciously or only partly.

Then of course the film goes where it does, and it becomes what you're saying -- Juno wants the liberation and respect of adulthood, Mark wants his freedom back from his younger days before he took on the responsibility of marriage and now potentially fatherhood. They both click in ways that Mark does not with his wife Vanessa (I mean, just look at the names -- they don't sound much like a pair, one is down to earth and commonplace, the other is kind of pretentious and orderly), and when you look at their house it's pretty much all Vanessa while Mark talks about "being allowed to have his own room" and feels shoved into a box... and even when he starts jamming with Juno, Vanessa is immediately all over him. It's clear that neither is what the other wants in a partner really, and they haven't yet reached a life stage where they find value in someone who has different goals and objectives in some ways, to make a strong pairing with multiple facets.

(Meanwhile, Juno's parents have their own things going while still being happy with each other, because they aren't forcing each other to be under the other's thumb.)

I agree it could have gone somewhere different and often does due to the cliches of films, so I was glad to see it being more about Mark's dissatisfaction with his life and not about him fixating directly on Juno. It also helped Juno that she was carrying the baby that Vanessa wanted, which Mark doesn't really want a part of -- it makes her less attractive rather than more.

But yeah, the age difference and Juno's vulnerability as a teen who thinks she knows more than she does could have left her wide open for a more malevolent Mark. But he is aware of what he really wants and knows Juno would not be a solution, she was merely a trigger. So he wisely goes after what he actually wants, rather than mistaking that for a pregnant teenage girl who he happens to share some interests with.

I found it funny they both had a lot of music knowledge but also somewhat different tastes and were ripping on each other occasionally about that, compounded by the age difference. (And Juno going on about how stupid Mark was because the glory days of music were obviously in 1977, not in the early 90's like Mark was pushing -- but he was at least alive and experienced what he was talking about directly!)

 

[Totenkindly]

Remembering When The Razzies Rescinded Shelley Duvall's Worst Actress Nomination for The Shining

In 2022, Shelley Duvall became one of two people that The Razzies have apologized to and rescinded their nominations.

movieweb.com

This week, the Razzies announced that a new award for the Worst Bruce Willis Performance of 2021 has been revoked in light of his aphasia diagnosis. In a statement published by IndieWire, co-founders John J. B. Wilson and Mo Murphy explained that it wasn't appropriate to analyze Willis' performances from last year in this way, given that his medical condition is a factor in his "decision making and/or performance." They also note that "extenuating circumstances" can apply to other nominations as well, even those from decades past. With this in mind, they've decided to also officially rescind Shelley Duvall's Worst Actress nomination for The Shining.


"As we recently mentioned in a Vulture interview, extenuating circumstances also apply to Shelley Duvall in The Shining," the statement reads. "We have since discovered that Duvall’s performance was impacted by Stanley Kubrick’s treatment of her throughout the production. We would like to take this opportunity to rescind that nomination as well."

Frankly there could be regular extenuating circumstances for many bad performances etc and the Razzies are a joke anyway...they need to stop taking themselves so seriously, if they keep going for low hanging fruit.