Random Movie Thoughts Thread

[Totenkindly]

I gotta say, that picture makes the rapture look extremely awesome. Imagine surfing on a wave of pure energy (joy?) through time and space. But I guess that's the point, it's awesome for believers, and not-so-awesome for unbelievers.

They really did make it look spectacular -- at least on the cover. Although wandering around heaven in bell-bottoms for eternity looking adoringly at angels and the deity sounds kind of boring.

 

[The Cat]

They really did make it look spectacular -- at least on the cover. Although wandering around heaven in bell-bottoms for eternity looking adoringly at angels and the deity sounds kind of boring.

well most of the ones that are really violent and kinky have the rapture leaving clothes behind. but those tend to also have the most behendings and graphic plagues.

 

[Totenkindly]

So after having to witness a lot of the really stupid back-and-forth between The Marvels pietists vs dismissers, I've been forced to think even more about the [lack of] story development and am growing even more critical of it. It can be enjoyed on a superficial level but there was clearly no real thought or concern about building an interesting and meaningful storyline or back sequence of events.

One of the most egregious things about their lack of thought, I'll write down here, along with a few other story point to explain just how BAD this storytelling is:

During the film, the writers explain Carol's past avoidance of earth due to "being too busy" to actually be a lie; instead, she is avoiding earth out of shame because early after the events of CM she apparently went to the Kree home world of Hala and destroyed the Kree Supreme Intelligence (portrayed by Annette Benning).

The civil war that follows due to this power vacuum results in the current Accuser locating the other Kree power wristband (the mate of the one Kamala Khan wears) and using it to open portals to steal the natural resources of planets that Captain Marvel cares about -- of course the final one being Earth, where the Accuser is going to steal the Earth's sun.

You could actually make a decent film about this if your writers are good enough, but the writers .are terrible with knowing how to dramatically develop a storyline.

1. One of the worst things about all of this is that we never see Carol destroy the Supreme Intelligence in real time. It is all a 60 second flashback delivered late in the film as a secret Carol was hiding. This is the "villain" of the CM film, who I think Carol tells Yon-Rogg to go back and warn that eventually she will come back to destroy.

This is the Supreme Intelligence of the Kree empire. This is an end-series/end-game boss. It is comprised of the uploaded minds of all the greatest Kree citizens who ever lived into "the cloud" basically. We see Carol just show up, smash the shit out of the Kree homeworld capital, and destroy the SI in a 60-second-flashback from the villain's perspective. Worse, this likely happened early after the events of CM and before The Guardians of the Galaxy 1 film, based on the Xandar/Kree treaty stipulations from that film.

I guess it takes the new Accuser all of this time (years after the Snap, even!) to actually find this other Kree power band and then try to use it to restore Hala.

But instead of making Carol's destabilizing an entire empire after murdering its leader and most valuable knowledge resource (regardless of the reasons -- she did not at all consider the results of her action on the populace and political ruins of the galaxies involved) the focus of an actual story, we get it as a 60 second flashback.

2. They make stealing the ocean from one planet, the air from another planet, and the sun from a third planet look really simple. I don't think the film really addresses the fallout of the first two planets losing their natural resource. Like, most realistically, everything dies on both planets. So much for your happy singing royal court that is a focus of some of the quality debate in TM.

3. SOmeone has to tell Carol, "Why don't you just fly into their sun and use your powers to restart/boost it?" She's apparently so powerful she can wipe out of the Supreme Intelligence without effort + fight Thanos when he is wearing all Six Infinity Stones, but she's such an idiot in 25 years that she never thinks, "Oh, hey, their sun is dying because of something I did, I wonder if I can do something about that," and instead mopes around for decades.

4. At film's end, Spectrum (Rambeau) sacrifices herself by closing the final rift from the other side and now she's trapped in an alternate multiverse dimension -- which then they show her in the other dimension with fan-fave characters that do not exist in the MCU. Yeah. Does any of this matter? Do those fan-fave characters matter? (Probably not.) How will she get home? Probably some off-camera or trivial shenanigans with America Chavez, once the Young Avengers is established. It's a "sacrifice" that is not really a sacrifice at all, but a minor inconvenience most likely in terms of how Disney will handle it. It's not even telegraphed in the film; like, you want to do something like what happened with Tony Stark, who did NOT want to try to undue the effects of the Snap because he started as a self-absorbed character and in the final film is happy with his life and afraid of losing what he gained -- but then when he's in the moment, and after realizing how much Peter meant to him as well, he just guns it and uses the Gauntlet knowing full-well he is going to die so all of his friends can enjoy the time that could have been his. It's a SACRIFICE. There is no setup in Monica's character for this moment of sacrifice. It's so haphazard and seems to mean nothing emotionally.

5. This whole "retcon" of backstory in Phase 4+, like with Rhodey now supposedly being a Skrull after Avengers: Civil War and Captain Marvel not really patrolling the galaxy but just exiled out of shame for destroying Hala, is really terrible -- not just because of retcons in general but because they are retcons ruining older parts of the MCU storylines that were actually good.

I can go on, but it's clear they just wanted a film where "Three Marvel female heroes get together and lighten up," but then they spend 250 million on this, and added in plotlines that are actually pretty huge dramatically and resonate throughout the MCU universe. No. If you want to do something big and serious, do something big and serious and spend the money. If you want to do something small and lighthearted, do that -- and make the stakes and money spent equivalent.

But it's really clear they did not do real story development with this film, in terms of figuring out the naturally dramatic parts of their story and then focusing on those things. We gets lots of trivial fluff as the main bulk of the film, with these crazy dramatic story points just tossed in as an afterthought. You might even be able to do this film to some degree but the writing would have had to be much different to make it resonate -- you would need to rearrange the narrative and emphasize different things. All they needed was a decent writer / small staff to sit around and workshop this thing to rework the script. It's not rocket science.

 

[The Cat]

So after having to witness a lot of the really stupid back-and-forth between The Marvels pietists vs dismissers, I've been forced to think even more about the [lack of] story development and am growing even more critical of it. It can be enjoyed on a superficial level but there was clearly no real thought or concern about building an interesting and meaningful storyline or back sequence of events.

One of the most egregious things about their lack of thought, I'll write down here, along with a few other story point to explain just how BAD this storytelling is:

During the film, the writers explain Carol's past avoidance of earth due to "being too busy" to actually be a lie; instead, she is avoiding earth out of shame because early after the events of CM she apparently went to the Kree home world of Hala and destroyed the Kree Supreme Intelligence (portrayed by Annette Benning).

The civil war that follows due to this power vacuum results in the current Accuser locating the other Kree power wristband (the mate of the one Kamala Khan wears) and using it to open portals to steal the natural resources of planets that Captain Marvel cares about -- of course the final one being Earth, where the Accuser is going to steal the Earth's sun.

You could actually make a decent film about this if your writers are good enough, but the writers .are terrible with knowing how to dramatically develop a storyline.

1. One of the worst things about all of this is that we never see Carol destroy the Supreme Intelligence in real time. It is all a 60 second flashback delivered late in the film as a secret Carol was hiding. This is the "villain" of the CM film, who I think Carol tells Yon-Rogg to go back and warn that eventually she will come back to destroy.

This is the Supreme Intelligence of the Kree empire. This is an end-series/end-game boss. It is comprised of the uploaded minds of all the greatest Kree citizens who ever lived into "the cloud" basically. We see Carol just show up, smash the shit out of the Kree homeworld capital, and destroy the SI in a 60-second-flashback from the villain's perspective. Worse, this likely happened early after the events of CM and before The Guardians of the Galaxy 1 film, based on the Xandar/Kree treaty stipulations from that film.

I guess it takes the new Accuser all of this time (years after the Snap, even!) to actually find this other Kree power band and then try to use it to restore Hala.

But instead of making Carol's destabilizing an entire empire after murdering its leader and most valuable knowledge resource (regardless of the reasons -- she did not at all consider the results of her action on the populace and political ruins of the galaxies involved) the focus of an actual story, we get it as a 60 second flashback.

2. They make stealing the ocean from one planet, the air from another planet, and the sun from a third planet look really simple. I don't think the film really addresses the fallout of the first two planets losing their natural resource. Like, most realistically, everything dies on both planets. So much for your happy singing royal court that is a focus of some of the quality debate in TM.

3. SOmeone has to tell Carol, "Why don't you just fly into their sun and use your powers to restart/boost it?" She's apparently so powerful she can wipe out of the Supreme Intelligence without effort + fight Thanos when he is wearing all Six Infinity Stones, but she's such an idiot in 25 years that she never thinks, "Oh, hey, their sun is dying because of something I did, I wonder if I can do something about that," and instead mopes around for decades.

4. At film's end, Spectrum (Rambeau) sacrifices herself by closing the final rift from the other side and now she's trapped in an alternate multiverse dimension -- which then they show her in the other dimension with fan-fave characters that do not exist in the MCU. Yeah. Does any of this matter? Do those fan-fave characters matter? (Probably not.) How will she get home? Probably some off-camera or trivial shenanigans with America Chavez, once the Young Avengers is established. It's a "sacrifice" that is not really a sacrifice at all, but a minor inconvenience most likely in terms of how Disney will handle it. It's not even telegraphed in the film; like, you want to do something like what happened with Tony Stark, who did NOT want to try to undue the effects of the Snap because he started as a self-absorbed character and in the final film is happy with his life and afraid of losing what he gained -- but then when he's in the moment, and after realizing how much Peter meant to him as well, he just guns it and uses the Gauntlet knowing full-well he is going to die so all of his friends can enjoy the time that could have been his. It's a SACRIFICE. There is no setup in Monica's character for this moment of sacrifice. It's so haphazard and seems to mean nothing emotionally.

5. This whole "retcon" of backstory in Phase 4+, like with Rhodey now supposedly being a Skrull after Avengers: Civil War and Captain Marvel not really patrolling the galaxy but just exiled out of shame for destroying Hala, is really terrible -- not just because of retcons in general but because they are retcons ruining older parts of the MCU storylines that were actually good.

I can go on, but it's clear they just wanted a film where "Three Marvel female heroes get together and lighten up," but then they spend 250 million on this, and added in plotlines that are actually pretty huge dramatically and resonate throughout the MCU universe. No. If you want to do something big and serious, do something big and serious and spend the money. If you want to do something small and lighthearted, do that -- and make the stakes and money spent equivalent.

But it's really clear they did not do real story development with this film, in terms of figuring out the naturally dramatic parts of their story and then focusing on those things. We gets lots of trivial fluff as the main bulk of the film, with these crazy dramatic story points just tossed in as an afterthought. You might even be able to do this film to some degree but the writing would have had to be much different to make it resonate -- you would need to rearrange the narrative and emphasize different things. All they needed was a decent writer / small staff to sit around and workshop this thing to rework the script. It's not rocket science.

It's almost like they thought we'd just gulp down whatever slop they threw in front of us and thank them for it because clearly we're all just pigs to them. But Jean Marsh references aside, you're spot on.

 

[Totenkindly]

It's almost like they thought we'd just gulp down whatever slop they threw in front of us and thank them for it because clearly we're all just pigs to them. But Jean Marsh references aside, you're spot on.

Well, some of the populace did. I can't believe there are zealots out there acting as if TM is the best MCU film ever and taking offense that someone is criticizing their sacred moo-moos.

I have to say something else too: We're well past the point of coyly suggesting characters are not heterosexual. I know Disney is trying to market the films to middle-east countries especially with Kamala Khan in this film, but it kinda make me want to vomit.

I feel like Carol Danvers is coded as at least bisexual in the MCU, regardless of her comic orientation (hair styles, demeanors, presence). In CM, it's suggested that she and Monica's mom were actually a couple, although I don't think they ever said it outright.

They pull that same shit here too, even when emotionally they just need to go there if they are going to do this (especially if it's a purposeful change to the comic). Monica is really pissed at Carol the whole way through this film and was avoiding her, because she is upset that Carol just ghosted her mom and her so many years back for no apparent reason, and wasn't there when her mom's cancer came back and she died. (This isn't a spoiler, this is established continuity from CM and Wandavision.)

She keeps calling Carol "Aunt Carol" in this film, but there is NO reason to be SO upset with Carol if she was just an "aunt" or family friend UNLESS Monica's mom and Carol were an actual couple and Monica feels like she just ran out on them when they needed her most.

This is Disney at its pandering worst. Same-sex marriage is coming and permissible in the USA right now. They changed a character to "suggest" they are gay or bi but refuses to just treat it openly and with respect if they are going to go there. If they don't want to the fallout, don't introduce it. Instead they're just trying to tokenize things to win affirmation without really doing anything with it.

THis is not the 80/90's, after all. Stop treating it that way.



I think it is important for this film, because if they wanted to go where they did with Monica's character, it could have been a huge story point:

Monica is furious with Carol, her "other mother," for abandoning her family.
She avoids her for years because of this.
She tears into her mercilessly when she finally is forced to see her.
Carol admits tearfully her shame and why she did what she did.
Monica is rightfully still pissed but now wrestles for the rest of the film on how to feel about Carol.
Something in that final battle should have resulted in Carol possibly sacrificing herself or being dreadfully harmed, and Monica rises past her anger to take her place. It's a sacrifice for her and means setting aside her deserved anger to forgive Carol enough at least to spare her and give her a chance to redeem herself. She accepts that Carol was also her "mother" even if a deadbeat one, and her bio mom loved Carol and she needed to honor her by giving Carol another shot.

THERE. So freaking easy. Did this film do that? No. I wrote this is two minutes. They did not take two minutes to look at their dramatic themes and take them to the natural conclusion, and it wouldn't have changed any of the plotting. It's just some lines of dialogue and direction for the actors.

Fuck Disney.

This is what workshopping a story is. ^^ You look at the stuff you introduced into the story, and figure out the best, most dramatic way, to make it all mean something, along with the naturally generated storylines.

 

[The Cat]

Well, some of the populace did. I can't believe there are zealots out there acting as if TM is the best MCU film ever and taking offense that someone is criticizing their sacred moo-moos.

I have to say something else too: We're well past the point of coyly suggesting characters are not heterosexual. I know Disney is trying to market the films to middle-east countries especially with Kamala Khan in this film, but it kinda make me want to vomit.

I feel like Carol Danvers is coded as at least bisexual in the MCU, regardless of her comic orientation (hair styles, demeanors, presence). In CM, it's suggested that she and Monica's mom were actually a couple, although I don't think they ever said it outright.

They pull that same shit here too, even when emotionally they just need to go there if they are going to do this (especially if it's a purposeful change to the comic). Monica is really pissed at Carol the whole way through this film and was avoiding her, because she is upset that Carol just ghosted her mom and her so many years back for no apparent reason, and wasn't there when her mom's cancer came back and she died. (This isn't a spoiler, this is established continuity from CM and Wandavision.)

She keeps calling Carol "Aunt Carol" in this film, but there is NO reason to be SO upset with Carol if she was just an "aunt" or family friend UNLESS Monica's mom and Carol were an actual couple and Monica feels like she just ran out on them when they needed her most.

This is Disney at its pandering worst. Same-sex marriage is coming and permissible in the USA right now. They changed a character to "suggest" they are gay or bi but refuses to just treat it openly and with respect if they are going to go there. If they don't want to the fallout, don't introduce it. Instead they're just trying to tokenize things to win affirmation without really doing anything with it.

THis is not the 80/90's, after all. Stop treating it that way.



I think it is important for this film, because if they wanted to go where they did with Monica's character, it could have been a huge story point:

Monica is furious with Carol, her "other mother," for abandoning her family.
She avoids her for years because of this.
She tears into her mercilessly when she finally is forced to see her.
Carol admits tearfully her shame and why she did what she did.
Monica is rightfully still pissed but now wrestles for the rest of the film on how to feel about Carol.
Something in that final battle should have resulted in Carol possibly sacrificing herself or being dreadfully harmed, and Monica rises past her anger to take her place. It's a sacrifice for her and means setting aside her deserved anger to forgive Carol enough at least to spare her and give her a chance to redeem herself. She accepts that Carol was also her "mother" even if a deadbeat one, and her bio mom loved Carol and she needed to honor her by giving Carol another shot.

THERE. So freaking easy. Did this film do that? No. I wrote this is two minutes. They did not take two minutes to look at their dramatic themes and take them to the natural conclusion, and it wouldn't have changed any of the plotting. It's just some lines of dialogue and direction for the actors.

Fuck Disney.

This is what workshopping a story is. ^^ You look at the stuff you introduced into the story, and figure out the best, most dramatic way, to make it all mean something, along with the naturally generated storylines.

I cant believe there are zealots out there proclaiming anything about Marvel. I can believe however that a lot of people are being paid to hype it up at all costs. They've been learning lessons about marketing movies, just not the right ones. Double or nothing you follow the money that's the picture it paints. Or so says the pattern recognition software I have for a brain.

 

[Totenkindly]

So, just got back from the Hunger Games prequel.

It's really hilarious looking at the critic (65%) vs audience (90%) RT scores.

For The Marvels, the disparity seems to be a critical base that compares that film to other MCU films and just films in general, trying to identify bsaic parts of decent films (plotting, characterization) which the film utterly fails with, whereas the audience seems comprised of people (based on who keeps posting on FB about how great the film is) who just enjoy the surface level banter (which kids can also enjoy) and the positive role modeling, and don't want to think too hard -- it's just a 90 minute escapism for them.

For the HG Prequel, I have to wonder how many of the critics read the book, because I keep hearing about the "confusing abrupt ending" and I had no such experience watching this film. (In fact, the ending seems a little more drawn out than the book!) I am also expecting any audience members who showed up opening weeks to likely have read the book and liked it enough to see the film. I am really leaning into this as the reason for the disparity. I can also imagine if you're a critic who didn't really care much for or got sick of HGs stuff, this film probably holds little interest and it's not going to be a Scorsese film or something.

This is easily one of the most faithful book adaptations I have ever seen in cinema (it might be even more faithful than Catching Fire, which is the HG film previously most faithful to the books), and the last 30 minutes actually does a better job at accentuating the emotional stakes of the book and clarifying what happened between Snow and Lucy Gray than the book does. The two leads are solid (Rachel Zegler really sells vocally as well in this film), and both Viola Davis and Peter Dinklage stand out in the supporting cast list. Its major flaw is mainly just being a fifth HG movie. I think if you go into it cold having seen some other HGs films, you might be surprised at how stripped back and unflashy it is. It's not really larger than life, it's more about basic plotting and character interactions.

The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes is a great adaptation of the book that explains how the HG became what they were, Snow's role in all that, and what really sets him on his path. I mean, it's not like a top-notch cinematic classic, but it's a decently made film in the genre it exists in. If you liked the book, you will probably like the film.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

Ah yes, the time is ripe.

I remember liking I, Robot when it came out. I'll also maintain that National Treasure is solid entertainment. I won't claim it's high art but if you're going to watch a big splashy Hollywood movie like this, you could do worse. (It's not Transformers, for instance.)

 

[Totenkindly]

I remember liking I, Robot when it came out. I'll also maintain that National Treasure is solid entertainment. I won't claim it's high art but if you're going to watch a big splashy Hollywood movie like this, you could do worse. (It's not Transformers, for instance.)

I honestly have been planning to watch National Treasure for years. Somehow I have always missed seeing it when someone else was watching it. I don't expect it to be a National Registry film either but it's probably enjoyable.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I honestly have been planning to watch National Treasure for years. Somehow I have always missed seeing it when someone else was watching it. I don't expect it to be a National Registry film either but it's probably enjoyable.

I think given that it involves Nicholas Cage running around Philadelphia landmarks, I'm legally required to like this movie.

 

[Totenkindly]

This was in a Facebook comments discussion about Frozen, lol:

I want to see the story of how Elsa expanded Arendelle and increased in power and cruelty until ultimately her world became Charn and she became Jadis, and she then left for Narnia.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

A Fish Called Wanda

Very funny movie when watched with appropriate levels of blood sugar. I also loved that they turned the classic tropes on their heads by having us root for stuffy English guys to prevail against the dynamic American. It was very refreshing. There are so many movies where the exact opposite takes place.

 

[Totenkindly]

A Fish Called Wanda

Very funny movie when watched with appropriate levels of blood sugar. I also loved that they turned the classic tropes on their heads by having us root for stuffy English guys to prevail against the dynamic American. It was very refreshing. There are so many movies where the exact opposite takes place.

Such a classic movie, Kevin Kline got a Best Supporting Actor for a comedy film. Jame Lee Curtis is really great too. The woman playing Cleese's wife Wendy has an impeccable sense of timing too.

 

[Totenkindly]

So was the T-1000 in T2 capable of experiencing some level of human emotion? (I will call it "he" because his forms were often male, although there were a few notable exceptions.)

He starts out seemingly efficient, but the more he experiences tactile interaction with his targets, absorbing their nature, the more he seems to emote human emotion -- and also seems to become more sadistic in the deaths. Like, some of these deaths (like stabbing the guard through the eye or ramming its blade through the foster dad's mouth) seemed to be ones it was relishing vs just doing economically. It seemed pissed about being fooled by the dog trick ("Wolfie"). It's pissed off after the helicopter is taken out and just guts the truck driver in a huff. It seems mad at the T-100 when it puts it out of commission at first. it shows surprise twice (I think it was too overt, but whatever). It seems annoyed it is not functioning well and just annoyed that the humans are making its job so difficult. It seems to almost enjoy torturing Sarah to get John to come out. It's just an odd thing, and I can't tell if it was purposeful?

The T-100 did not seem to show this kind of development necessarily, except maybe for the final film. (The first one did not have its learning chip on; the T2 version did and did not feel like it could cry, although it was capable of understanding why humans did so; and the one appearing in Dark Fate seemed to experience responsibility and regret.)

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I like a lot of Ridley Scott's movies, but recently, I realized he's a douche.

 

[ceecee]

I like a lot of Ridley Scott's movies, but recently, I realized he's a douche.

He is. But I love the juxtaposition of Ridley Scott and Martin Scorsese. One is trying to do the best, most meaningful work with the time he has left and the other is like - fucking hold my beer.

Scott tells the Times that “there’s a lot of imagination” in history books. “When I have issues with historians, I ask: ‘Excuse me, mate, were you there?” he questions. “No? Well, shut the fuck up then.’”

In no way is this a reflection of my own feelings on his films, I like/love most all of them. Some of my favorite historical movies ever are RS vehicles that contain very little historical accuracy.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

He is. But I love the juxtaposition of Ridley Scott and Martin Scorsese. One is trying to do the best, most meaningful work with the time he has left and the other is like - fucking hold my beer.



In no way is this a reflection of my own feelings on his films, I like/love most all of them. Some of my favorite historical movies ever are RS vehicles that contain very little historical accuracy.

Yup. The "you weren't there" quote was what inspired my post.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

This is fascinating to me.

More proof on how the collective verdict of movies can change drastically over time. I've really only seen the first one and half of the second. I didn't hate what I saw of the second one, but I felt like I couldn't keep my attention on it, and I felt like it demanded a lot of it. But I also don't think these movies were hated as much as some other trilogies around the same time. I think the sequels were seen as baffling or not as good but people never seemed frothing with rage about them. Perhaps it's because nobody expected the first film to be any good.

I am certain that 20 years from now there will be videos talking about the underappreciated merits of the Star Wars sequel trilogy. (I wish I had a non-Star Wars example to go with but I can't think of anything else so polarizing within the past ten years).

 

[Totenkindly]

Pirates I remember to be enjoyable even if fluff. It helps when you have a good cast who can carry the film(s) through any average plotting. I really haven't watched the others through, just bits and pieces.

There really wasn't any kind of "fandom" attached to Pirates like there was with Star Wars or the MCU. It was entirely a film franchise.

There will never be a Haunted Mansion franchise to get upset about. Pirates can be proud it got quite a number of films out of the concept.

 

[Totenkindly]

"The Beauty of" film series (it's a long running thing) just captures great shots from films, including this bit from The Creator. Just music, no voice overlay. The scenes speak for themselves. They also do well in not spoilering anything, as there is no context.

Yes the film feels "this big" visually, the shots are so well composed, and even mundane shots are visually balanced. It all really elevates the film.