please explain socionics!

[miss fortune]

I know that there are plenty of people on here who say that socionics is awesome and all of that, however, I've always been enamored with learning things that have nothing to do with socionics (like the evening spent figuring out that the blobbing locomotion that seals do is apparently called galumphing), so can someone please help me out here?

can someone please answer the following questions?

- why is socionics worth learning about?

- how does it work?

- is it different enough from MBTI that I'd have to learn an entire new system?

- how does one's type work in that system?

- do I really have to find an entire new type?

- is it better than MBTI or enneagram or any of the other systems thrown around on here?

- is there anything else I should be asking here but don't know that I should ask? and what is the answer to that?

thanks!

 

[five sounds]

Lol i picture this going like those Explain Ni threads.

Mysteries of life, man.

 

[Masokissed]

It's like what MBTI is to astrology but to MBTI. You'll know you've found the right Socionics type when the description you've read leaves you shocked by how creepily specific and right it is. Your type in MBTI and Socionics will be roughly the same (i.e. You might have a type in the same quadra as what your MBTI equal in socionics would be, like you could be an ISFP in MBTI but SEE in Socionics; or something a letter off, like ESTP in MBTI but ENTp in Socionics.). And remember you don't have to fit everything in the description of a quadra because a quadra is just four different types gangbanging their traits. Like, I don't focus as much on Ni as an INTp would in Socionics.

 

[five sounds]

It's like what MBTI is to astrology but to MBTI. You'll know you've found the right Socionics type when the description you've read leaves you shocked by how creepily specific and right it is. Your type in MBTI and Socionics will be roughly the same (i.e. You might have a type in the same quadra as what your MBTI equal in socionics would be, like you could be an ISFP in MBTI but SEE in Socionics; or something a letter off, like ESTP in MBTI but ENTp in Socionics.). And remember you don't have to fit everything in the description of a quadra because a quadra is just four different types gangbanging and their traits. Like, I don't focus as much on Ni as an INTp would in Socionics.

! Totally didn't know that about quadra. I liked how function descriptions seemed more thorough and nuanced in reading socionics stuff, but I always struggled with not really relating to my quadra descriptions. It was frustrating because I felt that they contradicted my type description in some ways. Good to know.

Also the Fi or Ne distinction was cool too. Reminded me of learning wings with enneagram. Really rounded out the picture for me and made something spot on even more spot onnier.

 

[wolfnara]

As briefly as I can:

- why is socionics worth learning about?

The functions are more faithful to the Jungian definitions, it could help to find you actual type,you may find it more interesting than mbti theory, and just for the sake of learning.

- how does it work?

There are 16 types just like in MBTI, except instead of only looking at the function stack with four functions of the type, it involves all eight functions and how that manifests in each personality type. The functions are the same, but it is about valuing those four functions. It also included inter type relations and sub-types. The definitions of the functions themselves are slightly different to the mbti cognitive functions.

- is it different enough from MBTI that I'd have to learn an entire new system?

You can use your knowledge of the functional stack and functions of each type to help you learn socionics, so you don't have to learn an entire new system. Basically it adds detail and complexity.

- how does one's type work in that system?

For introverts the J/P axis switches (e.g. EII / INFj = INFP) because dominant Fi is a Judging function. It remains the same for extroverted types (e.g. LIE / ENTj = ENTJ). EII simply means Ethical (Ethics is the socionics term for Feeling) Intuitive (N) Introvert (meaning leading function/dominant function is introverted) but it also known as INFj.

There are also Four Quadras. Types that share the same valued functions (eg. NFJs and STPs) belong to the same quadra.

- do I really have to find an entire new type?

Your socionics type will most likely align with your self-discovered cognitive functions. However, in my opinion socionics types can be slightly different. Depends it you are going by you MBTI type (then it could have a huge difference in the four letters) or your Cognitive Functions alone (Likely the same functions in socionics). You should still read into types and functions to identify your type as it will expand your insight to typology as a whole.

- is it better than MBTI or enneagram or any of the other systems thrown around on here?

Yes. In my opinion. But actually it does make the most logical sense, as it has been more heavily researched than mbti/enneagram, or at least appears to be.

- is there anything else I should be asking here but don't know that I should ask? and what is the answer to that?

Socionics uses something called Model A which addresses all 8 functions in each type. Basically a Ethical type will have both strong Fe and Fi, a Logician has strong Ti and Te, and so on. Each function in Model A has a name to describe it's position in each type. We have four blocks for all types, the functions belonging to that are depending on each type.

For example you are typed as an ESTP. In socionics = SLE / ESTp. In Model A that would be:
"Mental" functions means conscious in the psyche, and we are aware of when we are using these functions, even if we don't value the function. "vital" means unconscious, even if we do value these functions.

Ego Block (strong, valued, mental)
Leading Function, 4D (Se)
Creative Function, 3D (Ti)

Super-Ego Block (Weak, unvalued, mental)
Role Function, 2D (Ne)
Vulnerable Function, 1D (Fi)

Super-Id Block (weak, valued, vital)
Suggestive Function, 1D (Ni)
Mobilizing Function, 2D (Fe)

Id Block
Ignoring Function, 3D (Si)
Demonstrative Function, 4D(Te)

"Dimenstionality" (4-Dimensional, 3D, 2D, 1D) is relating to the strength of each function. Strongest functions are 4D and weakest functions are 1D.

Socionics Model A
Dimensionality and Typing

Hope I am not throwing too much information at once. If you have any more questions feel free to ask because that might be confusing. I recommend you read about socionics on sociotype.com if you are interested in learning about socionics.

 

[miss fortune]

why is there the flip flop of P and J for introverted types?

and if a person can't really find a good fit with MBTI are they more or less likely to find one with Socionics?

also, what's with all of the relationship stuff in socionics?


(and thanks to everyone who has answered... very helpful! )

 

[Chrysanthe]

On the Introverted dichotomy switch: Je and Ji dominant types are marked with a J to note that these types are rational, and not the irrational dominant types Pe and Pi. ExxJs and ExxPs don't have to switch because their dominant function is already correctly paired with their respective P/J dichotomy.

oh! and about the p/j dichotomy. It is completely replaced with the Static/Dynamic dichotomy. All Static types are Exxps and Ixxjs (mbti p types) and all Dynamic types are Ixxps and Exxjs. This dichotomy is quite different from mbti P/J however. (wont go into it cus im at school on my phone and still don't quite understand it myself >>)

Anyways, it could be easier or more difficult to find a type with socionics, whether the additional specifities of Socionics help or further complicate your journey, or whether or not the more.... clearly defined and easily-put-on-a-spectrum (Pe/Ji and Pi/Je)(aka relation to other functions) the socionics functions are, make the typing process easier.

 

[wolfnara]

why is there the flip flop of P and J for introverted types?
and if a person can't really find a good fit with MBTI are they more or less likely to find one with Socionics?

The J/P switch makes more sense, but I don't know the actual reason as to why this was decided in socionics. Feeling and Thinking functions are Judging (Correct/Incorrect or Right/Wrong) which makes a better fit of an F/T leading type. Myers Briggs created it's own concept and rules using the four letter dichotomies, then cognitive functions were added in combination.

In my opinion it is easier to identify your own type in socionics. I recommend to anyone who can't type themselves with CF/mbti to read up on socionics for a new perspective. Not sure what the purpose of inter-type relations is but I am guessing it is to help others with relationships of people belonging to a certain type. Actually, what even is the purpose of socionics itself? Perhaps to create a theory more based on Jungian theory?

edit: also what chrysanthe said. I've forgotten about the static/dynamic elements.

 

[Kas]

why is there the flip flop of P and J for introverted types?

Oh I was confused (slightly I still am) about this too.

In MBTI it's about first extraverted function P(Se, Ne), J(Te,Fe)
In Socionics any first function P (S, N as irrational functions) and J (rational T, F)
Difference is when it comes with introverts because their first function is introverted, so in MBTI P/J depends on second function and in Socionics on the first one.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[fetus]

I don't understand Socionics at all, but I'd like to. I just know that SEI-Fe fits me better than any other online description I've ever read, so...I agree with [MENTION=24829]Masokissed[/MENTION].

 

[Chrysanthe]

One of the reasons why Socionics is superior to MBTI is the inclusion of relativity... whether it means understanding how one function within yourself affects thr behaviour of another or if it means how your collection of functions behaves or is affected by others whether they be of different types or even the same type.

Basically allows you to, if your concept of your own type is ambiguous, locate where your personality is on the typology map using those around you as points on that map to help guide you. The direction and distance each point guides you depends on how each type makes you feel.

...or maybe ive been using the intertype relations system wrong and it is not meant to determine type >_>

 

[Bush]

The forest view seems legit and actually helpful, but the more down into the weeds you get, the more it needs validation in order to hold up at all.

also, what's with all of the relationship stuff in socionics?

The four types in a quadra share the same values, but they all have different approaches. (That's one of the general concepts in Socionics that seems to hold up.)

Two duals are theoretically most complementary of all in their approaches. Type descriptions tend to crank this up to 11 -- they're all lovey dovey and all and if you're not with a dual then your relationship is garbage and you need to dump your zero and get yourself a hero

 

[Masokissed]

also, what's with all of the relationship stuff in socionics?

This is where it gets fun.

 

[miss fortune]

ok... what appears to be the best of the descriptions I've run across still is kind of wrong

plus, socionics says that my relationship of 7 or so years is bad and shouldn't work

also, what's with all of the appearance bullshit that goes along with all of the socionics things, like VI? do they ignore genetics and things of that sort? would that mean that identical twins should have the same personality?

and oh god... there's quadra as well? are they like a differently grouped manner of the whole "all NFs go together" type thing that MBTI does?

are quadra important?

apparently I also need to read the subtypes thread as well, since that seems to complicate things further...

once again, thank you guys for helping explain socionics to my lazy self... I just don't get why they have to make it so damned complicated! (and this is coming from someone who thinks that wings and tritypes and things of that sort make sense)

 

[Chrysanthe]

There are two types of Visual Identification IIRC...

There's both unchanging traits attributed to a type (like a muscular bulky build or a fox like face) or the changing aspects of a person's appearance (how they smile or how they mobilize themselves or their eye movement)

The former I am way more reluctantly to accept than the latter, and it seems that most socionists would agree that it is the latter that is more reliable because it displays ones mental activity (supposedly)


Quadras, while showing shared values between four types, also have had a dichotomy of Positivism and Negativism added to the system by Victor Gulenko which distinguish which functions are + and which are - in each quadra.

The descriptions for Minus and Plus functions are here if you so wish: ... jist kidding my phone doesnt know how to paste links where i say to ._.

 

[Typh0n]

Hi whatever. I'll take a shot at your questions.

ok... what appears to be the best of the descriptions I've run across still is kind of wrong

plus, socionics says that my relationship of 7 or so years is bad and shouldn't work

Yeah. It says that about relations with some of my close friends too. I wouldn't take it personally, there socionics isn't meant to be used to tell you who you should be in a relationship with, it explains how some relations work, personally, I find that this is sometimes true but sometimes totally off.

Out of curiousity, what type are you and what type is your SO?

also, what's with all of the appearance bullshit that goes along with all of the socionics things, like VI? do they ignore genetics and things of that sort? would that mean that identical twins should have the same personality?

Yeah, VI isn't universally accpeted. I would ignore it if you're skeptical, its not that important.

and oh god... there's quadra as well? are they like a differently grouped manner of the whole "all NFs go together" type thing that MBTI does?

are quadra important?[/B][/I]

Yeah, they are important, because people of the same quadra basically value the same functions. People of the same quadra have the same values( they value the same functions), even if they don't always get along.

Here are the quadras:

Alpha values :

Beta :

Gamma :

Delta :

apparently I also need to read the subtypes thread as well, since that seems to complicate things further...

I would advise it, but maybe not now...get the basics down first, then the subtypes. Its like ennegaram, with the wings.

Hope that helps, don't go to fast, just take the time to take it all in!

 

[Bush]

So it's also important to know that, although Socionics's types can be expressed in MBTI-like form (e.g. SLE -> ESTp), it's mostly meant to just make Socionics more accessible to MBTI folks. Those four dichotomies are useful vocabulary in Socionics too, but they could've used different notation for them

ok... what appears to be the best of the descriptions I've run across still is kind of wrong

plus, socionics says that my relationship of 7 or so years is bad and shouldn't work

My relationship is Activation. It's apparently not the holiest and perfect and rainbowy of relationships

I find wikisocion's descriptions to be among the best. At least, they pull it all together pretty well. Check out descriptions of types broken down by function, and check out the descriptions of the functions themselves:

• Wikisocion SLE composite - Wikisocion
• Extroverted sensing - Wikisocion
• Introverted logic - Wikisocion
• also the other six functions maybe

also, what's with all of the appearance bullshit that goes along with all of the socionics things, like VI? do they ignore genetics and things of that sort? would that mean that identical twins should have the same personality?

and oh god... there's quadra as well? are they like a differently grouped manner of the whole "all NFs go together" type thing that MBTI does?

are quadra important?

They're much more reasonable than the Keirsey bullshit, at least. Quadras are all about shared values. Betas and Deltas theoretically value completely different things and so they haaate each other.

For example

apparently I also need to read the subtypes thread as well, since that seems to complicate things further...

once again, thank you guys for helping explain socionics to my lazy self... I just don't get why they have to make it so damned complicated! (and this is coming from someone who thinks that wings and tritypes and things of that sort make sense)

Do you buy into, say, Enneagram's arrows of integration and disintegration? (I personally don't.) If not, you can in good conscience ignore the more needless complications in Socionics in the same way.

To some, building on a theory is just cool to do !!!! but ultimately the nuances are hard to justify in the real world.

Also, you can safely ignore Socionics's more needless complications anyway.

 

[Typh0n]

Quadras, while showing shared values between four types, also have had a dichotomy of Positivism and Negativism added to the system by Victor Gulenko which distinguish which functions are + and which are - in each quadra.

The descriptions for Minus and Plus functions are here if you so wish: ... jist kidding my phone doesnt know how to paste links where i say to ._.

The plus and minus aspect of each function is something I don't believe in, and discourge the propagation of this theory! Its too convoluted, and doesn't make any sense.

 

[á´…eparted]

In my opinion it is easier to identify your own type in socionics. I recommend to anyone who can't type themselves with CF/mbti to read up on socionics for a new perspective. Not sure what the purpose of inter-type relations is but I am guessing it is to help others with relationships of people belonging to a certain type. Actually, what even is the purpose of socionics itself? Perhaps to create a theory more based on Jungian theory?

I'm not so sure about this. I have figured out my MBTI type with relative ease. However it's worth noting I most frequently test as ESTJ.

Yet, in socionics, while SLE makes the most sense to me, and I am 100% beta, I honestly feel like a three way mix between SLE, EIE, and LSI. I've flopped between all 3 of those at one point or another, and I find it very difficult to nail down my type. The functions in socionics seem a lot more merky and wishy-washy, and there's a lot of behavior basis which I don't really buy in any theory since it's inconsistent.

In other words, I think MBTI is a lot easier to sort.

 

[Rambling]

I'm not so sure about this. I have figured out my MBTI type with relative ease. However it's worth noting I most frequently test as ESTJ.

Yet, in socionics, while SLE makes the most sense to me, and I am 100% beta, I honestly feel like a three way mix between SLE, EIE, and LSI. I've flopped between all 3 of those at one point or another, and I find it very difficult to nail down my type. The functions in socionics seem a lot more merky and wishy-washy, and there's a lot of behavior basis which I don't really buy in any theory since it's inconsistent.

In other words, I think MBTI is a lot easier to sort.

Yeah, I agree with you. In MBTI I'm an INTJ, and had the second level test done professionally so I know all the ins and outs of that, and cognitive functions work with that. What I got from the Socionics was that I tested as INTp and my Dual is around the ENFP types, and some of that other relational stuff.

I never got the reasoning behind that lettering thing like LIE- Fi as in what's the Fi part of that mean?