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Oscars 2022

Totenkindly

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@Tokenkindly Yes, I have trouble quoting bigger posts on my phone (not sure if the segment I'm referencing will show up as quote) but the way you described it is very much like what I meant by celebrity entitlement. Think Trump's "I could shoot someone on a public street" comment, but cranked down a couple notches.

There are sometimes stories about celebrities like Robin Williams who would always try to give homeless people jobs on set (or comfort strangers in some public setting, etc), or who make sure every single person working on set is fairly compensated for their work - Smith is not one of them. And though I can't recall specific incidents, I vaguely remember hearing he falls on the other side of that spectrum - his behavior this week tracks with that impression. I think earlier on he'd had a reputation for his comedy; he was good at being silly and not taking himself too seriously. But that changed at some point. (LOL @ Cruise being more talented. It's totally possible. I just can't stomach watching him in anything anymore - Magnolia was the last film I was able to appreciate in spite of his participation).

Yeah, every once in a while you get a good apple like Williams.

Cruise and some other actors can be acquired tastes, I get it. Just trying to offer that objectively he has some talent rather than just being a total flake.

Maybe we can all at least agree that "Wild Wild West" is a shit film that Smith gave up The Matrix for. While I still don't hold a great opinion of Reeves' acting ability (aside from kinetic roles), he's one of the good apples from all that I've read and I admire him on that level.

sorry, was skimming stuff on phone and just was crunched at work, so I only really had seen your final post that mentioned me, rather than seeing all your other posts this morning.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Apparently Smith was asked to leave and he refused. Announced by the Academy and reported in the Washington Post. This actually really might hurt his career, at this point.
 
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It's everywhere, you can't escape it. I didn't mind hearing about it on Monday but on Tuesday I started to get tired of it.
I just logged on to facebook briefly Monday, like i tend to do maybe once or twice a week, and it was literally every post. I promptly logged off when I realized it was going to be one of those weeks. But I guess people can only get so much mileage out of cringe memes comparing Putin and Zelensky to MCU characters.
 

Totenkindly

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Yeah, I have now moved on to cringe twitter vids of Lady Gaga telling Caitlyn Jenner she's switched baristas.

You have to be willing to embrace change. Maybe next week we'll be back to crappy Joe/Brandon memes.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I haven't watched the Oscars in over 20 years and have no interest in it, but it's inescapable - even if you don't use social media, it's hogging news headlines. I think there's something Trump-esque about Smith's dick move that's triggered an en masse "so sick of these entitled pigs being enabled" frustration.

I'm personally frustrated that it's suckung all the air of the the Ginni/Clarence Thomas headlines. And the headlines about the NY assistant DA resignation letters.
 
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It's almost as if the entertainment industry (which overall is owned by most of the same conglomerates who own the 24 hour news networks) always has prime drama ready to distract people at the most convenient times. Not saying it's a conspiracy, but the way this stuff gets so much coverage and mileage certainly doesn't hurt vested interests hoping other stories might be swept under the rug. I mean look at how Hurricane Katrina coverage almost became more about drama around Kanye's remarks about Bush than it did about the Bush Administration's handling of the storm. Overnight, people forgot about the pisspoor response to the storm and instead wanted to blow some rapper's emotionally charged remarks way out of proportion. All the more perplexing since Kanye had a point when he said that, but people weren't quite ready for that conversation so he was vilified. I mean Kanye sucks, but of all the things to criticize him over, this one would be my least concern.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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It's almost as if the entertainment industry (which overall is owned by most of the same conglomerates who own the 24 hour news networks) always has prime drama ready to distract people at the most convenient times. Not saying it's a conspiracy, but the way this stuff gets so much coverage and mileage certainly doesn't hurt vested interests hoping other stories might be swept under the rug. I mean look at how Hurricane Katrina coverage almost became more about drama around Kanye's remarks about Bush than it did about the Bush Administration's handling of the storm. Overnight, people forgot about the pisspoor response to the storm and instead wanted to blow some rapper's emotionally charged remarks way out of proportion. All the more perplexing since Kanye had a point when he said that, but people weren't quite ready for that conversation so he was vilified. I mean Kanye sucks, but of all the things to criticize him over, this one would be my least concern.
I don't remember being offended by that, haha. But I think a bunch of people in that administration should be in jail.
 

Totenkindly

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I haven't watched the Oscars in over 20 years and have no interest in it, but it's inescapable - even if you don't use social media, it's hogging news headlines. I think there's something Trump-esque about Smith's dick move that's triggered an en masse "so sick of these entitled pigs being enabled" frustration.
Aside from the reality it's all the rabid Trumpies around here who are saying Smith should be punished (including my neighbors). They very much are happy to smack down the posh lib elite while protecting Trump.
I'm personally frustrated that it's suckung all the air of the the Ginni/Clarence Thomas headlines. And the headlines about the NY assistant DA resignation letters.
Yeah, wtf. Not that I expect any action anymore.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Aside from the reality it's all the rabid Trumpies around here who are saying Smith should be punished (including my neighbors). They very much are happy to smack down the posh lib elite while protecting Trump.

That seems pretty on brand for Trump supporters. It's only an abuse of power when the other side is doing it; that's when all outrage is absolutely justified. But it seems to be a reassuring sign of strength when the demented cheeto (or one of his sycophantic flunkeys) does it; all consequent outrage is TDS. Or something.

There is a stunning but consistent emotionally-fueled lack of consistency over there in the "facts dont care about your feelings" crowd.
 
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@Tokenkindly Yes, I have trouble quoting bigger posts on my phone (not sure if the segment I'm referencing will show up as quote) but the way you described it is very much like what I meant by celebrity entitlement. Think Trump's "I could shoot someone on a public street" comment, but cranked down a couple notches.

There are sometimes stories about celebrities like Robin Williams who would always try to give homeless people jobs on set (or comfort strangers in some public setting, etc), or who make sure every single person working on set is fairly compensated for their work - Smith is not one of them. And though I can't recall specific incidents, I vaguely remember hearing he falls on the other side of that spectrum - his behavior this week tracks with that impression. I think earlier on he'd had a reputation for his comedy; he was good at being silly and not taking himself too seriously. But that changed at some point. (LOL @ Cruise being more talented. It's totally possible. I just can't stomach watching him in anything anymore - Magnolia was the last film I was able to appreciate in spite of his participation).
I think it was around the early to mid 2000s, especially after Ray, that Smith started buying into the hype about him and therefore taking himself way too seriously. Celebrities should never read press about them, whether good or bad. He's to movies now what Madonna is to popular music--an over-the-hill performer who did some good work in their heyday, but bought way too heavily into hype around them. For Madonna, you can trace the turn to around that point in the late 90s when she started using a weird midatlantic/pseudo british accent in interviews. Also, a good sign of a performer too drunk on their own ego is how their children present and interact in the world. I've never heard about weird drama or gossip news surrounding Keanu's or Robin Williams' kids. Obviously that's not always the case, but more often than not, it seems like kids of certain types of celebrities have a way of following in their parents' footsteps when it comes to being narcissistic egoists and creating drama. I do feel pretty bad for Smith's kids. I mean they have grown up likely very privileged and treated like heirs to royalty, with very little perspective on the "real world" or the fact that the universe doesn't revolve around them. Take a celebrity teenager for instance, pair that sense of self importance and self absorption along with the normal sense of being misunderstood and the sort of navel gazing that comes for "normal" teens, then add all of the constant exposure and scrutiny that comes with celebrity... I feel bad for Jaden who couldn't even post some cringy moody teenager musings on twitter without it becoming a major point of attention. People ripped him to shreds. I mean the memes were funny, but he was basically being your typical self-absorbed teen who is learning to philosophize about their purpose and position in the universe, he just made the mistake of posting it on twitter while being the famous son of a famous actor who seems to have never tried too hard to shelter his kids from the more toxic side of fame.
 
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Totenkindly

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I feel bad for Jaden who couldn't even post some cringy moody teenager musings on twitter without it becoming a major point of attention. People ripped him to shreds. I mean the memes were funny, but he was basically being your typical self-absorbed teen who is learning to philosophize about their purpose and position in the universe, he just made the mistake of posting it on twitter while being the famous son of a famous actor who seems to have never tried too hard to shelter his kids from the more toxic side of fame.
True dat.

And basically getting some vanity slots (like "After Earth" but I think there was a musical thing too?) essentially because of who his parents were, but not really having much talent himself. His acting just wasn't HORRIBLE, but it wasn't great either, and it was clear he got a starring role because of blood and not talent.

If he had been a regular kid with regular parents, he'd be fine, but the limelight isn't good for him. Like you say, if you step back and look, most kids get the luxury of that awkward search for meaning in life and one's purpose without being exposed world-wide. Also, they seemed to have too many options without enough guidance, somehow.

Did Madonna do anything good after the 90's? That's where she kind of fell off the radar. It's funny my kids don't really know her well. For me, she and Michael Jackson were top billing and she hit the stage when I was in high school, so definitely that was a "my generation" thing. She really did know how to market and package herself and also set the trends for the years she was in the sun. So many people followed/imitated her in that genre, and she was trying new things with each album.
 

Totenkindly

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So already no one is talking about CODA anymore.

Told ya.

requiescat in pace
*makes sign of cross
 
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True dat.

And basically getting some vanity slots (like "After Earth" but I think there was a musical thing too?) essentially because of who his parents were, but not really having much talent himself. His acting just wasn't HORRIBLE, but it wasn't great either, and it was clear he got a starring role because of blood and not talent.

If he had been a regular kid with regular parents, he'd be fine, but the limelight isn't good for him. Like you say, if you step back and look, most kids get the luxury of that awkward search for meaning in life and one's purpose without being exposed world-wide. Also, they seemed to have too many options without enough guidance, somehow.

Did Madonna do anything good after the 90's? That's where she kind of fell off the radar. It's funny my kids don't really know her well. For me, she and Michael Jackson were top billing and she hit the stage when I was in high school, so definitely that was a "my generation" thing. She really did know how to market and package herself and also set the trends for the years she was in the sun. So many people followed/imitated her in that genre, and she was trying new things with each album.
I think the last time she was really “on top” was around Die Another Day. And the album Music which was right around that or right before that film I think. I vaguely remember my parents talking about her doing some type of comeback around 2016 or so, but that’s all I heard of it.
 

Totenkindly

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I think Smith just resigned from the Academy.

This whole thing just smacks of damage control.

He slaps Rock.
Then he apologizes when winning his award, but it's mostly a justification for his behavior + never apologizes to Rock.
He apologizes to Rock the next day after partying the prior night -- I guess he was told he was not contrite enough.
A few more single steps during the week, when it seems clear the past effort wasn't enough.
Now finally resigning, since nothing else worked to rehabilitate his image.

Like, it all feels like manufactured contrition and behind the scenes wrangling.
Just get it over with.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Yeah, today's apology and resignation would mean more if he were already barred from future ceremonies. He said he'll accept any consequences, but this seems like a last ditch hope that showing more remorse will stop even worse consequences. I guess it's a wait and see type of thing.

Although I have to admit, it's refreshing to see someone express "the right words" again (even if insincere, it's still less bullying) after a dick move, instead of simply doubling down and DARVOing* the crap out of it.

(Deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender).
 

Tennessee Jed

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I know I'm late on the Smith thing. But I have some time on my hands...

I feel bad for poor old Will Smith and the way he trashed his own legacy with a single bad decision. But it's his own damned fault. He white-knighted for his wife, and now he's paying the price. He should have told her to fight her own battles.

I saw reports of at least one black commentator defending Smith by taking the angle that "It's a black thing," and saying that Smith was right to publicly confront Chris Rock for dissing his wife. Who knows, Smith himself might have been feeling that his past "rapper credibility" was on the line. (Though it probably had more to do with his self-esteem in the face of bad press about his open marriage.) One commentator even supposedly said that Chris Rock's response to the slap was "weak," and that Rock discredited himself by not abusing Smith back.

But that's all ridiculous, of course. If Smith really wanted to turn it into some kind of rapper street fight, then that should have been handled after the show, not onstage. Otherwise there will be shoot-outs and stabbings at award shows whenever black rappers show up.

Meantime I thought Chris Rock was very professional. He kept it together and kept the show moving forward in the very best Hollywood tradition of "the show must go on." He was just a B-lister grinding out a gig for the evening, and he got publicly crapped on by an A-lister pretty much out of the blue. He floundered a bit immediately afterward, but he finished the gig like a pro, and he gains honor by that.

I think the subsequent standing ovation for Smith when he got the big award for the night was in the same note. That is, everyone was in the mode of "the show must go on," and they played it safe and went through the motions. But as the show kept on "going on," the facade became a bit grotesque. Kind of like all of Hollywood had turned into Stepford wives. Some of them are now speaking up after the fact and saying that they were sickened by what they saw. But I guess none of them wanted to be the first to drop the facade at the time of the actual event and react honestly to what had happened.
 
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Totenkindly

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I agree Rock has seemed to be handling it very very well (in terms of his reactions) -- he's even shut down people publicly dissing Smith during Rock's own comedy routines later on in the week and not adding to the fire. Grace under pressure, I guess.
 

Tennessee Jed

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I agree Rock has seemed to be handling it very very well (in terms of his reactions) -- he's even shut down people publicly dissing Smith during Rock's own comedy routines later on in the week and not adding to the fire. Grace under pressure, I guess.
Yes, Chris Rock is showing a lot of class in the wake of this incident.

Of course, it's also good strategy for Chris Rock to lay low in the immediate aftermath of the Oscars. Regardless of how Chris Rock may personally feel about the Smiths, Will Smith is a big Hollywood property with a lot of big Hollywood projects in the pipeline. It has been announced that some of Smith's upcoming film projects are already being postponed while everyone waits to see if this incident will blow over. (See the article at the link below.) So Chris Rock probably doesn't want to be seen as creating a fuss and exacerbating Will Smith's problems at a time when Smith's empire is vulnerable.

Most commentators expect Will Smith's indiscretion to be forgiven and forgotten pretty quickly. But if the problem doesn't go away and Smith's acting career is negatively affected over the long-term, a lot of Hollywood people will lose a lot of money on the aborted projects like the ones described in the article below. If that happens, then Chris Rock doesn't want to be regarded as a "spoiler" who contributed to the downfall of a big A-lister like Will Smith. It would end up poisoning Rock's career as well.

So it behooves Chris Rock to lay low and wait it out like everyone else. Once Will Smith recovers and gets his projects back, then that will be the time for Chris Rock to lay into Smith and his wife and raise some hell without worrying that he'll be seen as kicking an A-lister when he's down. Or if Will Smith doesn't recover and ends up being permanently tarnished by all this, then at least by keeping his distance and minding his own business Chris Rock can't be personally blamed for pouring fuel on the fire and making things worse.

Article: Netflix Backs Away from Will Smith Film ‘Fast and Loose.' Link: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/will-smith-netflix-movie-1235123901-1235123901/
 
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