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Oscars 2022

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I haven't seen it yet but plan to, it's free on one of the streamers. Kinda surprised it got no attention, I think that was also in top ten of the critic I mentioned.
I think people have the idea that Wes Anderson's movies are just pretty but devoid of substance which I don't think is really the case.
 

Totenkindly

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I think people have the idea that Wes Anderson's movies are just pretty but devoid of substance which I don't think is really the case.
I don't know why people would think that. His films tend to be meaningful, quirky, and interesting to look at -- but maybe it's an acquired taste of some kind.
 

ceecee

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I don't know why people would think that. His films tend to be meaningful, quirky, and interesting to look at -- but maybe it's an acquired taste of some kind.
Definitely an acquired taste for some but I always suggest Grand Budapest Hotel as an introductory film. I think it's the one least likely to make people turn it off.

As a side note: Adrian Brody is playing Pat Riley in the HBO series about the LA Lakers. It's strange to me after seeing him in so many Wes Anderson films. But so far I think it was great casting.
 

Totenkindly

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Definitely an acquired taste for some but I always suggest Grand Budapest Hotel as an introductory film. I think it's the one least likely to make people turn it off.
I picked it up recently but haven't got around to watching yet. It's supposed to showcase a comic side to Ralph Fiennes and I'm looking forward to it. I've seen six of his other films, the first one i saw (on home video in the 90's?) was either Bottle Rocket or Rushmore...
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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I picked it up recently but haven't got around to watching yet. It's supposed to showcase a comic side to Ralph Fiennes and I'm looking forward to it. I've seen six of his other films, the first one i saw (on home video in the 90's?) was either Bottle Rocket or Rushmore...
I've started a tradition of watching it every Christmas, mostly because of the winter ambience.
 

Z Buck McFate

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Most of country backs Rock.

Screenshot_20220329-155543_Chrome.jpg


It's been interesting how almost disappointingly predictable 'hot takes' have been about this. In this^ red section, the "violence is okay, but the deviant consensual sex behavior is not" group is working hard (per usual) to discredit Christianity and hasten its national decline.
 

Stigmata

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Most of country backs Rock.

View attachment 26013

It's been interesting how almost disappointingly predictable 'hot takes' have been about this. In this^ red section, the "violence is okay, but the deviant consensual sex behavior is not" group is working hard (per usual) to discredit Christianity and hasten its national decline.
This is why I said someone would have to be an idiot to think that whole thing was staged -- In what way does the perception of this being real, if in fact it wasn't, benefit Will Smith?

For a celebrity actor of his caliber, this type of publicity isn't a benefit to him in any capacity. He basically ruined his entire career in an instant (Will Smith will continue to be a pretty big star in Hollywood, but this event will follow him for the rest of his career and put an asterisk in the mind of many that can never be taken back).
 

Z Buck McFate

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I wonder how much of the bad reaction to Smith is more about the aftermath than the event itself. If he faced consequences for what he did - like if he were removed from the audience and denied a chance to accept his Oscar - I doubt there would be so much backlash. But not only was he allowed to stay, he got a weird standing ovation for his "love makes us do crazy things" acceptance speech *and* supposedly partied afterwards with no visible uneasiness or remorse? I didn't watch the show, I only saw clips (it was impossible to avoid them), but the whole thing reeked of brazen, out-of-control celebrity entitlement. I think THAT'S what's biting Smith in the ass: not the event, but how it unfolded afterwards.

I mean, if he were denied the opportunity to accept the award and there were reports of him avoiding after parties to process/calm down, I think people would be a lot more forgiving.

ETA: Even the guy Smith accepted an award for playing in the movie - who Smith (arrogantly) compared himself to during the speech - has spoken out against the behavior, adding something like "We only believe in hitting in self-defense."
 
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Totenkindly

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I wonder how much of the bad reaction to Smith is more about the aftermath than the event itself. If he faced consequences for what he did - like if he were removed from the audience and denied a chance to accept his Oscar - I doubt there would be so much backlash. But not only was he allowed to stay, he got a weird standing ovation for his "love makes us do crazy things" acceptance speech *and* supposedly partied afterwards with no visible uneasiness or remorse? I didn't watch the show, I only saw clips (it was impossible to avoid them), but the whole thing reeked of brazen, out-of-control celebrity entitlement. I think THAT'S what's biting Smith in the ass: not the event, but how it unfolded afterwards.

I mean, if he were denied the opportunity to accept the award and there were reports of him avoiding after parties to process/calm down, I think people would be a lot more forgiving.

ETA: Even the guy Smith accepted an award for playing in the movie - who Smith (arrogantly) compared himself to during the speech - has spoken out against the behavior, adding something like "We only believe in hitting in self-defense."
I don't even know how I feel about it all. I'm not sure I'd call it entitlement (Smith has cultivated a nice guy persona for years, although it broke on Sunday), and there's a lot of white people screaming about taking his Oscar and punishing him while the Academy has let much more egregious and damaging behavior pass for some of its elder white men without stripping them of anything. It would be utter bullshit to take his Oscar for that -- maybe you've seen this by now, as another example:


Maybe it's ridiculous to see this happen on the stage, but the last thing they need to do is take a black man's Oscar after not doing anything to the Oscars won by other privileged white men. I've heard they might strip him of the chance to give out an Award next year (as per the custom), and while that sounds lame, that sounds like a good starting point.

Continuing, I'm feeling like the Smith / Pinkett-Smith apology was more about damage control for their cultivated social personas, which was threatened. I guess it is entitlement only in the sense that everyone in that room could potentially get away with shit because they are celebrities, like anyone who has social clout and/or a lot of money can get away with things in this country. I mean, he technically (and in public with the nation witnessing) committed assault, but I don't know how the assault charges work or who can bring them.

I've tried to ignore all the speechifying because it all seems like pretty words with an underlying purpose other than its overt content. I mean, how can you reasonably apologize for that? If you're gonna slap someone in the face, then own it and do it for a reason, not do it and then completely grovel / undermine what you did later. But my actions typically are not driven by momentary loss of control based on emotion, so maybe I just don't get it. I just eyeroll repeatedly any time I see someone lash out in public or act out in some way, then go out publicly to moralize and grovel in the face of public opinion mainly in an attempt to restore face but otherwise they might just do it all again if the situation reoccurred.
 
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Z Buck McFate

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@Tokenkindly Yeah, it'd be a mistake to take the Oscar. I'd meant denying him the chance to accept it on stage, with the speech and whatnot. I don't think it would have been too severe to escort him out. "If you jump onstage to assault the host, you don't get to stay," doesn't seem like an unreasonable precedent to want to set.

I actually didn't much like Smith before this happened, so I'm sure that's informing my opinion too. I thought he was good in comic roles, but I think he has about as much talent as Tom Cruise in the more serious roles (iow: I find it more rewarding to stare at a blank wall than watch his movies). By 'entitled', i mean smug, overconfident Hollywood figure who thinks the normal rules don't apply to him. The way he compared his actions to the Williams dad while accepting the award ('passionately defending family') only to have the Williams dad himself disagree ("yeah, no - only ever hit people in self-defense") tracks pretty well with my opinion of Smith. :shrug:

I'm guessing that jokes are written ahead of time to help segue to the topic, rather than being improvised. I wonder to what extent that was the case for Rock.
 

Tomb1

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@Tokenkindly Yeah, it'd be a mistake to take the Oscar. I'd meant denying him the chance to accept it on stage, with the speech and whatnot. I don't think it would have been too severe to escort him out. "If you jump onstage to assault the host, you don't get to stay," doesn't seem like an unreasonable precedent to want to set.

I actually didn't much like Smith before this happened, so I'm sure that's informing my opinion too. I thought he was good in comic roles, but I think he has about as much talent as Tom Cruise in the more serious roles (iow: I find it more rewarding to stare at a blank wall than watch his movies). By 'entitled', i mean smug, overconfident Hollywood figure who thinks the normal rules don't apply to him. The way he compared his actions to the Williams dad while accepting the award ('passionately defending family') only to have the Williams dad himself disagree ("yeah, no - only ever hit people in self-defense") tracks pretty well with my opinion of Smith. :shrug:

I'm guessing that jokes are written ahead of time to help segue to the topic, rather than being improvised. I wonder to what extent that was the case for Rock.

The afterwards (speech and party) reminded me of the absurdity of Ted Bundy's flair and showmanship while representing himself in Court.
 

Totenkindly

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^^ Those damn ExxPs. [smith and bundy]

Z Buck McFate:

@Tokenkindly Yeah, it'd be a mistake to take the Oscar. I'd meant denying him the chance to accept it on stage, with the speech and whatnot. I don't think it would have been too severe to escort him out. "If you jump onstage to assault the host, you don't get to stay," doesn't seem like an unreasonable precedent to want to set.

okay, I agree with that -- pretty harsh, but he did walk on stage and choose to slap someone hard across the face, on national TV when he had other options.

I actually didn't much like Smith before this happened, so I'm sure that's informing my opinion too. I thought he was good in comic roles, but I think he has about as much talent as Tom Cruise in the more serious roles (iow: I find it more rewarding to stare at a blank wall than watch his movies).

You half-had me until you compared him to Cruise, who is a better actor than Smith. (Smith is kind of in-between that and a total "being myself on camera" actor like Michael J. Fox, who is typically loved by audiences regardless of output.) I don't put Cruise in the very highest tier of dramatic actors, but he actually has some skill even if the latter part of his career seems to be more of a hard-core physical stunt actor. (He has been nominated for three Oscars and won three Golden Globes, and some of these parts were challenging -- my favorite might been in Magnolia). If he's in a film, depending on the film, that can speak of a certain quality of the film. Cruise is also really great at picking his roles and marketing himself. He just happens to be batshit crazy about Scientology off-screen.

By 'entitled', i mean smug, overconfident Hollywood figure who thinks the normal rules don't apply to him. The way he compared his actions to the Williams dad while accepting the award ('passionately defending family') only to have the Williams dad himself disagree ("yeah, no - only ever hit people in self-defense") tracks pretty well with my opinion of Smith. :shrug:

Yeah, that whole thing smacked of what I was complaining about in my last post, it was this blatant attempt to reorient himself on the moral landscape but was just rather lame considering he had just literally smacked someone across the face. It felt very self-serving. It reminds me of that apology by Conor in "Road to Perdition," where his dad (Paul Newman) forces an apology from him for essentially setting up a scenario by which he could murder someone else working for the family, and he delivers it with self-serving motivations to cover up his true guilt and then the dad smacks his hand on the table and says, "AGAIN" and tears a real apology dealing with the gravity of the situation out of him.

I don't think you can go up and try to reposition yourself or save your own reputation when you are apologizing for something like that, I think you just need to suck it up and actually apologize. It leaves me feeling like Smith isn't at the point in his life yet where he can quickly review his own behavior and refocus himself, he might need more time for self-reflection or he will fall into rationalization.

I've heard that jokes are written ahead of time to help segue to the topic, rather than being improvised. I wonder to what extent that was the case for Rock.

I did see a meme listing the names of the joke writers for his bit. Not sure if it was accurate, but there did seem to be writers of his routine, not off the cuff by Rock.
 
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Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Most of country backs Rock.



It's been interesting how almost disappointingly predictable 'hot takes' have been about this. In this^ red section, the "violence is okay, but the deviant consensual sex behavior is not" group is working hard (per usual) to discredit Christianity and hasten its national decline.
It took me a bit to figure out what you meant by "deviant consensual sex behavior". I thought you were referring to Will and Jada's open marriage at first.
 

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In general, I kinda don't even care about the Smiths. What they do in their marriage consensually is their business, and while there's a personal reaction maybe to Sunday night, I see it as more an issue between him and Rock and then him and legal enforcement.

Like, we wanted to talk about movies, and this stupid thing is bigger than the attention given to decent films... even the film Smith was in.

Everyone has to state their opinion. I guess this is watercolor talk now that GoT is gone.
 

Z Buck McFate

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It took me a bit to figure out what you meant by "deviant consensual sex behavior". I thought you were referring to Will and Jada's open marriage at first.
That is what I was referencing. The "Christians" (the kind who incessantly talk about it, but who reflect the values less than your average Atheist) surfaced in full glory explaining that violence to defend one's wife is acceptable (noble, even; the more you treat your wife like she's property to defend, the better) but consensual sex between adults that they personally don't approve somehow IS their business and isn't okay. It's like they're trying to prove their particular faith should not be followed by anyone with absolutely any mind of their own.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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That is what I was referencing. The "Christians" (the kind who incessantly talk about it, but who reflect the values less than your average Atheist) surfaced in full glory explaining that violence to defend one's wife is acceptable (noble, even; the more you treat your wife like she's property to defend, the better) but consensual sex between adults that they personally don't approve somehow IS their business and isn't okay. It's like they're trying to prove their particular faith should not be followed by anyone with absolutely any mind of their own.
Oh, I guess I was unaware that people were talking a lot about that aspect of the situation.
 

Z Buck McFate

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@Tokenkindly Yes, I have trouble quoting bigger posts on my phone (not sure if the segment I'm referencing will show up as quote) but the way you described it is very much like what I meant by celebrity entitlement. Think Trump's "I could shoot someone on a public street" comment, but cranked down a couple notches.

There are sometimes stories about celebrities like Robin Williams who would always try to give homeless people jobs on set (or comfort strangers in some public setting, etc), or who make sure every single person working on set is fairly compensated for their work - Smith is not one of them. And though I can't recall specific incidents, I vaguely remember hearing he falls on the other side of that spectrum - his behavior this week tracks with that impression. I think earlier on he'd had a reputation for his comedy; he was good at being silly and not taking himself too seriously. But that changed at some point. (LOL @ Cruise being more talented. It's totally possible. I just can't stomach watching him in anything anymore - Magnolia was the last film I was able to appreciate in spite of his participation).
 
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